I believe a male should take responsibility if the female decides on her own to keep the pregnancy. I don't believe he should have any legal right to force her to keep it however. Many women do indeed abort because they know they cannot properly care for a child on their own; and that if the father was there then it would be possible so yes, if more men were responsible and said "Oops, you're pregnant? If you want to keep it then I'm here for you 100%".

I don't however think paternal involvement has anything to do with women who chose to adopt. You don't need the father for adoption. I don't think a bf saying to me "I'll be here for you" would change my decision to abort or adopt. I'd be like "Oh yeah, you'll be there doing what? Feeling sympathetic while I go through labor? Not a big help".

Now here is a case that I feel should be more official.
In some cases, a father says "Oh I'll take care of it" when the woman doesn't want too. IF she is willing to carry the pregnancy to term, I feel that if proper paperwork go through that the father should have the right to fully adopt the child and relieve the mother of all responsibilities, financial or otherwise just like in any other adoption.
I also feel that early on in pregnancy the father should have the right to sign off any and all rights to the child and not have to pay child support. A woman has the right to abort the baby; a male should have a similar right and give away his responsibilities as well.

"Many women do indeed abort because they know they cannot properly care for a child on their own"

No one said that she has to keep her child... adoption is a "viable" option. ("viable"...ironic isn't it)

"You don't need the father for adoption"
It being the child of BOTH of them doesn't mean anything? Women don't reproduce asexually remember?

"Oh yeah, you'll be there doing what? Feeling sympathetic while I go through labor? Not a big help".

Right there you hit it... The same woman who is pro-choice and wants to abort FEARS the natural process of childbirth. The same woman who claims to be independent cringes in fear at a natural process of life. This narcissism and self concern is characterized by fear. She won't own up to her own actions and give the child a chance at life because she is to busy hiding in the recesses of fear and self pity.

While it's true men don't experience childbirth does this biological truth then cut them off from the right to what is ALSO their child? Life isn't fair. People need to accept the consequences of their own actions both men and women.

This bothers me the most---
"I also feel that early on in pregnancy the father should have the right to sign off any and all rights to the child and not have to pay child support."

Great idea this will spawn generations of people who don't take responsibility for their own actions and thousands of fatherless children.

Yes, i'm so glad you have gone through the process of straight forward childbirth to be able to dismiss it so easily.

1)Have you (honestly)?
Most woman I know that have refer to it as a pivotal and life changing moment in her life and an amazing experience. And with help of modern medicine it is substantially easier then it once was.

While it's true men don't experience childbirth does this biological truth then cut them off from the right to what is ALSO their child? Life isn't fair. If a woman takes the risk of pregnancy she needs to accept the fact she will bear a child. Just like men should at the very least pay child support. Anything less is not owning up to ones actions do you support that?

*Sigh* I do not fear the act of pregnancy or child birth. Heck, I used to fantasize as a kid I was pregnant. I am looking forward to my first pregnancy. I want to learn as much as I can about painless delivery through accepting birth as a power flowing through you, not a physical pain. I want a water-birth. I am not afraid of birth or pregnancy. It's a glorious, beautiful thing... When It Is Wanted.


While it is attached to the female's body? Yes.


Abortion IS accepting responsibility. Not accepting responsibility would be to walk around, ignore the pregnancy, drink, smoke, give birth in the street and then walk away. Abortion is just the responsible choice you don't like.


It's gender equality. Women have the right to abort; men should have a similar right. There are already generations of fatherless children. Child support doesn't make you a dad. Sorry. It makes you a bank. You're not raising that child; you're sending it money. That doesn't make you a father.

I should bloody well hope so, otherwise why i have a 5 year old sleeping in the next room is beyond me.

16 father,

When Eiri said that women don't need the father in order to adopt, she meant they don't need them for adoption to be a viable option. In short, putting a child up for adoption is an affordable option with or without the financial support of the sperm donor, but raising a child alone often is not an affordable option for many women.

Men have the legal right to refuse consent to adoption except for under extreme circumstances, even if they don't pay child support and don't lift a finger to help raise the offspring. Where I used to live, this means that if a woman carries to term with the intention to adopt out and the man refuses to consent, the woman is stuck raising the kid whether she wants to or not and the sperm donor goes on his merry way with his ego in tact and his progeny suffering for it. If the woman tries to abandon the child somewhere she gets brought up on charges for it. Nice choices there, eh? Abort or become a criminal if you aren't willing to raise that kid, because Freddie's little DNA contribution gives him the right to say whether someone more willing to raise the child can do so.

I say no pay, no say.

The rest of your post was just speculative slander on Eiri's character because she doesn't fit the narrow role you've assigned to her gender.

'When Eiri said that women don't need the father in order to adopt, she meant they don't need them for adoption to be a viable option"
That's your interpretation leave it up to Eiri to speak for herself


Where I used to live, this means that if a woman carries to term with the intention to adopt out and the man refuses to consent, the woman is stuck raising the kid whether she wants to or not and the sperm donor goes on his merry way with his ego in tact and his progeny suffering for it.

Well where you "used to live" is not undergoing my proposal for men to TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for their actions which I proposed in this article.

"the sperm donor" because that's the purpose of men right?

"The rest of your post was just speculative slander on Eiri's character because she doesn't fit the narrow role you've assigned to her gender."

Which is reminiscent if not a REFLECTION of the way you are quick to refer to men as a sperm donor. If it is speculation that tell me why I'm wrong.

My speculation concludes that you hate men and might be a lesbian? (not that I hate homosexuals in any way or am using this as an insult) however you comments lead me to believe so.

Darkmoon understood me perfectly.

I believe you'll find that she means sperm donor to be something entirely different from a pro active father.

The "sperm donor" of my child is a self appointed title by virtue of him deciding to walk out on his son without any contact or financial support, not because of any inherent hatred of men on my part.

"Darkmoon understood me perfectly."

Well then thank you for responding to your own comments. (I do not mean this in a derogatory manner)

Again you've demonstrated an uncanny talent for seeing what you want to see in a person's post, rather than what is there. You started this thread talking about irresponsible men who abandon women they impregnate. Wouldn't you say such men are sperm donors rather than "fathers"? I wasn't referring to men that help raise and support their children when I coined the term "sperm donor", I was referring to males that ejaculate and go on their merry way.

Like Eiri's comment concerning adoption you picked the words you wanted to see and inserted your own for the rest.

I responded because you asked me too. Often on these forums when someone else properly defends another person we don't bother responding with anything aside from "thank you" to the person who defended us.

"I believe you'll find that she means sperm donor to be something entirely different from a pro active father."

Please let people speak for themselves.

The "sperm donor" of my child is a self appointed title by virtue of him deciding to walk out on his son without any contact or financial support, not because of any inherent hatred of men on my part.

Do you agree then that men should take responsibly, which would in many cases prevent abortion?

I responded because you asked me too. Often on these forums when someone else properly defends another person we don't bother responding with anything aside from "thank you" to the person who defended us.

I wasn't attacking you...thus no need for defense but rather trying to understand your implications.

I wasn't being defensive. Also, if you'd like to quote people, there's a button beneath every single post that says "quote".

Again you've demonstrated an uncanny talent for seeing what you want to see in a person's post, rather than what is there...

and your great at avoiding questions... did you honestly ever give birth?
If you are in fact a lesbian (i mean no disrespect) why do you concern yourself with abortion?

I'll let a moderator dictate who can respond to which points thanks.



Yes men should take responsibility, but i also think that women should work out if they can realistically afford to bring up any potential child up on their own without having to rely on the father should the worst happen, any support would be a "bonus" - not fair granted, but realistic.

Again, drawing on my own philosophy and experiences if i were to get pregnant again, even if i could "rely" on the father the decision would be based on whether i could support 2 children by myself. I've been let down once before, i'm not going through that again and having both my children suffer should the "father" decide he's not having any of it.

I sure hope you're not talking to me.