Bobbie, do you KNOW what goes on in prisons?
Theres no real point in them anymore. They have gyms, cable TV, express lunchrooms, outdoor sports, conjugal visits.. they can get drugs in there just as easily (if not more so) than on the streets.. Its not punishment anymore.

Also..

Have you ever had somebody close to you taken from you by means of homicide? I have.. a very close relative. Shot point blank in the chest for *speeding* thru the guys apartment complex at 1 in the morning. Would i go to his execution had he been jailed here instead of over-seas for unrelated crimes?

You're damn right.

You take a life, you give yours in return. Plain and simple.

IMO.

Pain at loss of your loved me? You betcha. Can you get over that pain and move on beyond your grief, beyond letting this person keep on hurting you with their thoughtless and probably drug induced homicide?

I believe this ties in with the right I feel a child has to be born. It is innocent and the unborn deserve to have some shelter in this storm that can just come and wash them into the gutter. My opinion. And, last time I talked to you about it Sandy, you felt that abortion was homicide, plain and simple. Don't want to cause you grief here and I know that you feel the same way. You have never caused me harm and I know that you would never do that.

No, I have never been in a prison, but I can pretty much imagine being behind bars and knowing I would never have the right to my freedom again, never be able to take my mother out or my father out to church, to take them to see something we could enjoy together. All that comes to a crashing halt. No more of that stuff. All gone and I guess they learn to survive in that new world.

Here in my town, we have a California Youth Authority "School". Only thing, if it is a school, how come it has barbed wire around the entire perimiter? It is a children's penal colony. Plain and simple. Have talked to some of the women and guards who work there. They say most of these kids are from families who simply don't care about them, drugs, gangs and these kids wind up here. Believe it or not, there are some who pull themselves up by their bootstraps, gain priviledges at town events and hopefully by their own accountability have a better life.

You are right Sandy, they have some things to keep these people going, but it is the soul I am talking about here. Trap a bird in a cage and maybe it can't or doesn't even want to sing anymore.

Statistics have shown that a lot of these people on death row commit suicide. Just going by that article published by the Associated Press, written by David Crary. And, also going my my feelings of what I believe.

Nobody, and I mean nobody in my opinion has a right to take a life except for God. I am never going to change my belief in that fact.

I am for the death penalty in cases like a mass-murderer, or a child killer, or mothers who kill their own born children in cars and tubs, or in cases where the victim was tortured to death, etc. True cold-blooded people like that don't deserve to be alive; they had their chance and used their life to kill others.

I hear you, Eiri. And, if we lived in a perfect world, all children would be loved, all children would be cherished, parents could love each other. I know that my parents did.

In the world in which we live, they say getting to the 15th anniversary is getting almost to the point of not happening today. It seems to me that when you have children, you have to grow up and they should have their chance. A chance of happiness, protection and most of all love and security in that love.

The only thing I have ever had to kill is the gophers who destroy my olives and vineyards. I can tell you I don't mind that one bit. But, another human being? No. I just could never go there. And, I am glad that I never will have to.

I'm glad Canada has banished the death penalty.

Having the death penalty for murderers is NOT worth the price of killing even one single innocent person at the hands of lethal injection/hanging/electrocution etc.

I also don't buy the "You killed someone, and that's BAD, so we're going to KILL YOU" rationale.

apparently you've never had anyone close to you taken from you the way I have.
You mean to tell me that say Jim Doe kills your mother, you would rather he be *rehabilitated* and *counseled* than punished? Prison these days is NOT punishment.

I suggest those in favor of the death penalty take a gander at this information sheet, updated Monday when NJ abolished the death penalty in their state: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet. pdf

Sandy, I am sorry for your loss.

Thanks for the site Birch.. Very interesting..

it was interesting but it doesn't change my opinion.

and thanks, birch.. its been almost 19 years and it still hurts.

California has 666 inmates on death row, Texas has 371.

In California, the average wait for execution is 17 years, and since 1978 there have been more suicides on death row (14) than executions (13).

Texas also has a big death row - 371 inmates.

Death penalty opponents say the savings nationwide would shift the programs that would curb violent crime - more police on streets, more drug rehabilitation and mental health serices to address problems that affect many criminals, better child protection services to curtail the abuse that many killers experience in their youth.

Opponents also state that the death penalty does not deter violent crime - as well as many U.S. allies abroad - who have lower crime rates than the states which conduct the most executions. Opponents also cite the recent exonerations of scores of death row inmates, based on DNA tests, and say abolition is the only sure way to avoid executing innocent people. (Credit to David Crary of the Associated Press.)

Thanks for the information on the New Jersey decision. It was a good site.

"Maybe spending their time, all that they have left, will give them an opportunity to come to terms with what they have done and feel repentance."

I don't get what you mean by this. How can the convicted come to terms with themselves for something they've done? And what's the point if they even do?....They're going to be stuck in a cell for the rest of their life anyways. People shoot and stab innocent victims to just be apart of the crime scene, just to be sent to jail because they're stuck in the streets with no place to come home to. Bums shoot women and children because they know if they get convicted, they'll have a bed to sleep in and food to eat. Capital Punishment says to criminals "Hey listen, if you commit a crime, this is what will happen to you." Without capital punishment, we'll still be stuck in a society where we kill to live.

Of loss, not having a place to be, a family to love and be there for you. But, however, it doesn't mean that anyone has the right be so desperate that taking a life is a way to a warm bed and three meals a day.

What is the point if they do come to terms with what they have done? I guess to realize what they have done. We all pay a price for what we do. Better now than later.

To be stuck in a jail in exchange for the comforts of bed and board has never entered my mind as a reason for anyone to actually commit a crime so terrible to land the person in a state of waiting for the executioner.

Petleys, one of the most destressing things about the capital pushishment is the high number of African Americans sent to death row. Not saying that you are because I have learned that on this forum it can be the game to pretend to be someone that you are not.

As a matter of fact, my husband and I both worried that our Godson, an African American boy could just be walking down the streets and be shot by someone for sport. He wasn't. He has contributed greatly and is loved.

You're a homeless man or woman surrounded by hate, discomfort and misunderstandings. You have no bed, no food or water, not even a toilet. You have the option to get sent to jail and get all over those things. What are you going to do? You can't give me a straight answer because you were never in that position, but odds are you'll do anything to have those so called luxuries.

I personally believe that jail is like a playground for adults. You have a fitness room, a jungle-gym outside in your back yard, you have television and video games, 3 meals a day(sometimes snacks if you're nice to the guards), a toilet to do #1 and 2 in, and a comfortable bed to sleep in....Let alone a room-mate to bunk with. How is that a "bad" place? Why would anybody NOT want to be there? Sure, it's nothing like home, but when you look outside the box, it's much better than the streets.

Nobody has the right to shoot or stab ANYBODY, but when it comes down to survival you'll do anything to live. Sure, you'll die for a loved one because you feel their life is worth living compared to yours. But when you see a random person walking down the street, a lot of people would take his life to be him. And some people actually do.

Jail should be jail, a place of hell. You kill somebody, you get treated for killing that person in the most horrible way possible. Not get sent to a freaking playhouse. I'm just trying to prove the point that there is not enough punishment out there to SCARE convicts into thinking jail is a bad place to be. What if there was no punishment? I'd be in there. And if I wasn't, I wouldn't be afraid to go out and kill some random person in the streets and get SENT there.

You have to have some kind of punishment to let people know jail is a horrible place to be, and when you open your eyes and listen with your ears, you'll realize that capital punishment is the only punishment able.

That's a pretty irrational conclusion to come to based on how I view capital punishment. I am sorry for your loss, I really am, but please don't assume these types of things.

I didn't say I'd rather have someone counseled and rehabilitated. I didn't say I support prison as it is now. I support a very different style of prison sentencing, and how prisons are set up.

I agree with punishment, not killing.

I'm afraid we're living in that exact same situation with capital punishment.
The mentality of many pro capital punishment minded individuals is that "we have to extinguish them so they can't kill anyone else in the event that they're let free".... Killing to live.

Though I personally don't think whether or not capital punishment deters anyone can be accurately measured, there are many, many studies that show that it is in fact not a deterrent by comparing the homicide rates per capita of countries that have legalised capital punishment and those who have not.

I believe that prison, as it is now, is not what it should be. I think that this is what should be focused on moreso than reopening the capital punishment debate (here in Canada).

put it this way..

you take a life... you deserve nothing more than to give yours in its place.

How is that possible without capital punishment? Take away the luxuries they provide? That's impossible. To some people, killing is their only resort to continue living their lives. And when they kill, they get sent to prison where they're provided bed and breakfast every day and night. I agree that we kill to live in both situations, but comparing the fear of killed innocent victims to the killers of those innocent victims is preposterous. That's like comparing love and hate.

If we have capital punishment, less people will want to go to jail. It's like raising children, you teach them good and bad. "If you steal that piece of candy, you'll be punished." Therefore, the child won't steal that piece of candy in fear of being punished. It applies to this situation.

I understand what you're saying, but it doesn't make rational sense to me.
I think if you take a life you deserve harsh, long punishment, not death.

In any case, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

But the punishment these days isn't even punishment. The only thing bad about jail is the fact that you're stuck there...And by "there" I mean a comicality.