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Bad Gas Smell Please Help!! (Page 1)

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We burp, belch and fart an average of 12 times a day. But why do we have gas? And what is intestinal gas?...the basics here....
Intestinal gas forms from two main sources - swallowed air and bacteria in the intestine. Plus, learn which factors to avoid to decrease the likelihood of gas....
How much gas is normal? Usually symptoms of gas and flatulence are more bothersome than serious. But learn when you should seek help for excessive gas here....
My 15 year old daughter was incorectly diagnosed with anorexia after severe weight loss following a major diet change when she went to italy for 3 months student exchange - fortunately she rediagnosed herself & found she has irritable bowel syndrome (or one of the apparently many similar problems which mimic each other) in any case she ahs to have a specific carbohydrate diet as a result she's gained over 12 kgs (25lbs) in about 2 months & is really pretty healthy now & even has motions daily (as opposed to once every 5-6 days) & without screaming in agony with them.

But she is having almost constant (& i'm not exagerating) foul gas smells erupting from her anus - horrid to be near her but worse to be her in this regard. She has sought out help from forums re irritable bowel etc & was told it would happen for about a week at 1 month & then another week at 3 months after going on the diet well that was over 6 weeks ago & she's been on the diet for 2 months & had the gsa for 2 months. It sometimes seems to be worse if she has alot of fruit but really it just is there almost constantly.

As she is studying she is out with others (aside from family who won't be cruel) & I am really worried about the effect if people start saying things - which may already be happening.

Please help.
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First Helper purple333
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replied August 19th, 2004
Somewhat Similiar Concerns
I recently lost alo tof weight when I went away as well. I also have extremely foul smelling gas. Does you daughter have any other digestive problems. Does she drink alot of carbonated drinks, eat a lot of sugar free food, or eat a lot of gas producing foods> I know that some of these things bother me. I also know that you said she recently started eating a ton of carbohydrates. I know that sometimes wheat or undigested carbs can pass through the system as gas. If you find out any more please let me know! I will do the same for you. Tell your daughter I feel for her!!!
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replied August 20th, 2004
Extremely eHealthy
She has never ever drunk much & now none at all drinks other than water, black tea & rarely pure fruit juice.

Due to the ibs she can not have alot of sugar so must eat sugar free everything & can not even have alot of fresh fruit as when she does she gets too much sugar.

As to gas producing foods; I think many foods affect different people differently but to my knoweledge there's no food that she eats (like say baked beans - whuch her ibs precludes anyway!!) that causes gas - if she eats alot of nuts that makes it worse so she keeps her intake of nuts down.

She ate a ton of carbs in italy - but with ibs she actually has to be on a specific carbohydrate diet - & can not eat pasta, rice, bread, cake, biscuits, potato, sweet potato, corn, etc etc - so her carbs are all low g.I. (good carbs) not (bad) high g.I. Ones.

She has recently moved out of home to be close to university so is now travelling <1hr a day asopposed to 4-5 hours a day & has completed very successfully her 1st semester so her stress levels seem to be reducing & whether it's a coincidence or not - her "gas" problem seems better - or maybe i'm just not around her as much so I don't suffer hence I don't notice it as much!!!!
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replied February 14th, 2008
Somewhat Similiar Concern
I lost like 40 pounds in last 6 month and now I have the same problem but this article helped me.

This is directly WebMd,
What is gas?

Gas (flatus) is made in the stomach and intestines as your body breaks down food into energy. All people pass gas, some people more than others. It is normal to pass gas from 6 to 20 times per day.

Intestinal gas is made up of oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, carbon dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, ammonia, and methane. The foul smell usually is caused by small traces of gases such as hydrogen sulfide, ammonia, and methane. Gas that forms after eating meat and eggs tends to smell bad, while gas derived from fruits and vegetables usually does not have an odor.
What causes gas?

Common causes of gas include:

* Swallowed air. If swallowed air is not burped up, it passes through the digestive tract and is released through the anus as flatus. Excessive air swallowing may cause hiccups.
* Foods and beverages. The amount of gas that different foods cause varies from person to person.
* Constipation. This can cause bloating but generally does not increase gas.
* Medicines or nutritional supplements. Both prescription and non-prescription medicines, as well as dietary supplements, can cause bloating and gas as side effects.
* A medical condition, such as a bowel obstruction or Crohn's disease.
* Changes in hormone levels. It is common for women to have bloating right before their periods because their bodies retain fluid.

Can I treat or prevent gas?

You may be able to prevent gas by changing your eating and drinking habits. Occasionally gas is a symptom of a medical condition that requires treatment.

Examples of gas-producing foods are:

* Vegetables such as artichokes, asparagus, broccoli, brussels sprouts, cabbage, cauliflower, cucumbers, green peppers, onions, peas, radishes, and raw potatoes.
* Beans and other legumes.
* Fruits such as apricots, bananas, melons, peaches, pears, prunes, and raw apples.
* Wheat and wheat bran.
* Eggs.
* Carbonated drinks, fruit drinks, beer, and red wine.
* Fried and fatty foods.
* Sugar and sugar substitutes.
* Milk and other dairy products, especially in people who have trouble digesting lactose, the main sugar found in milk.
* Packaged foods that contain lactose, such as breads, cereal, and salad dressing.

Dietary supplements such as Beano may help to prevent gas.

Some people get relief from gas from products containing simethicone, a medication that dissolves gas bubbles. Nonprescription medications with simethicone include Gas-X and Mylicon.

WebMD Medical Reference from Healthwise.
Last Updated: September 30, 2005
This information is not intended to replace the advice of a doctor. Healthwise disclaims any liability for the decisions you make based on this information.
@ 1995-2007, Healthwise, Incorporated. Healthwise, Healthwise for every health decision, and the Healthwise logo are trademarks of Healthwise, Incorporated.
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replied July 10th, 2008
Very bad Smelling Gas and Breath
I have always had foul smelling gas. It even hurts sometimes when I release the gas. I also have small white balls that grow in the back of my throat that smell very bad. I spit them up regularly. I think they are connected in some way. It seems as if I am always tired. I am normal weight and excercise regularly. I do not eat badly and I feel I am healthy, except for these issues.Does anyone have any advice on this or what this might be???
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replied October 11th, 2011
bad breath
the small white balls are food particles that collect in small passages in the throat .you need to brush your teeth and tongue better and more regularly. also you should use your finger to sort of sweep around inside of your mouth between your teeth and jaws while rincing several times to make sure there are no particles left inside your mouth. never go to sleep whithout brushing, rinsing and flosing.
That will get rid of those stinky white balls and should get rid of your bad breath onless you also have a sinus problem,
doctors usually treat that with antibiotics
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replied April 30th, 2012
The smelly white balls that stink are called Tonsil Stones, and it smells like sewer sh*t. They collect and grow near the tonsils. For me, it seems to grow faster and bigger whenever I'm tired or not feeling well. Easier to cough out during shower- have the water go through the nose and into the mouth, then cough a few times.
My fowl smelling gas as well as my tonsil stones have improved by improving my diet. I blend kale along with different fresh and frozen fruits, nuts, seeds, greek yogurt, phytonutrients,and raw honey for breakfast. Since my energy level is now good, my breath as well as my gas seem normal. Drastically reducing fast food, simple sugars, and sodas, and consuming more whole foods is a must. Within a day or two, you'll feel and smell much better.
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replied November 14th, 2011
That may be excessive fungus in your system. That can explain the foul gas as well (fungus in the intestine). Look at cutting your carb intake and adding a comprehensive probiotic daily.
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replied December 19th, 2011
tonsil stones
The white balls in your throat are called tonsil stones. They occur when your lymphatic system is out of balance. The imbalance of your lymphatic system can also cause fatigue.
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replied January 18th, 2012
Tonsils
These "white balls" that are in your throat are called tonsillitis or tonsil stones. They are sloughed off skin and bacteria that collect in the crevices of your tonsils. People who get them have cryptic tonsils. Some people remove them with q tips, and others have used water piks that have a strong flow of water to flush them out. There is no magic cure to get rid of them, although Dr. Katz sells some products on line that may help. The only sure way to rid yourself of tonsil stones is to have a tonsilectomy. They are NOT related to your intestinal gas.
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replied March 10th, 2012
Your acidic. this means that your body has lost its ph balance, a humanbody should be at a acidic basic balance of 20% 80% this in many people is not the case. an asidic body is the cause of nearly all sicknesses. Everytjing we eat drink and inhale can throw this important ph balance out of balance. my advice is noooo medication!! and a detox at least for at least. 2 weeks! When you need a bit of proof go simply to the nearest pharmacy and pick up a ph test. a simple urine test that will show you just how acidic your body is. do this with an empty stomach. a normal ph is around 7,3 Smile ggood luck!
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replied November 2nd, 2012
The small white balls that grow in your throat is likely a result of a condition called "chronic cryptic tonsillitis". You can see a ear, nose and throat specialist to be certain. If it is, you can have your tonsils removed and it should take care of the problem.
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replied July 19th, 2008
Re: Bad Gas Smell Please Help!!
Dear Experts:

Past 3 years I am (male 34 years) suffering by Bad Gas smell. I took a lot of medicines and not cured yet. I have burbing & gastric problem as well.
Have tried to intake a lot of fruits and control by food also but not solved.

Really appreciate if some one could advise.

Best regards
RG
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replied August 13th, 2008
Digestive Enzymes
I've had IBS since I was a kid, and have had to live with
the same embarrassing smelly flatus all my life.

It's been getting bad at times these two years. Worse, this
shorty who sits at the back of me in the office isn't very
diplomatic nor well-mannered, and shouts out loudly to
everyone in the office whenever I pass smelly gas, sending
the woman in front of me running for her life.

Apparently the culprits responsible for smelly gas are usually
complex carbohydrates. So recently, I emailed the owner of my
regular online health food store and asked him if he had
any good supplement which might help this problem.

He recommended the enzyme formula BeSure Prevents Gas. I haven't tried it yet, but I'm sure you can get it from most health food stores in the US if you wish to try it.

Generally, most good comprehensive enzyme formulas will help.
Make sure they contain cellulase and alpha-galatosidase enzymes,
not just the usual protease, amylase and lipase.

Probiotics are also helpful - those made by Jarrow are quite good.

Others are herbal formulas for gas containing fennel, peppemint,
ginger, caraway, catnip, papaya, artichoke, oregano oil, etc.
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replied August 14th, 2008
Some useful links :

Flatulence

Flatulence underwear


Lactobacillus Plantarum 299v looks quite promising. I might also
try it later. Not exactly cheap.
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replied January 22nd, 2009
Similar Bad Gas Problem
I Find that from anywhere from 3 to 6 i start to get very bad gas. It has a horrible smell to it. It also tends to be alittle uncomfortabe to pass. It lasts quite awhile and is every single night. I am very young and i watch everything i eat. It is very hard for me to be social with my friends because this problem takes place every night and it makes me feel terrible.
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replied February 16th, 2009
bad gas problem
Hi, i had been facing this for past 5 yrs.. this is not only after eating.. even immediatly after I go to rest room also, I feel bad smell.. I am feeling terribly bad to sit in office or near friends..
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replied February 20th, 2009
Re: Bad Gas Smell Please Help!!
purple333 wrote:
My 15 year old daughter was incorectly diagnosed with anorexia after severe weight loss following a major diet change when she went to italy for 3 months student exchange - fortunately she rediagnosed herself & found she has irritable bowel syndrome (or one of the apparently many similar problems which mimic each other) in any case she ahs to have a specific carbohydrate diet as a result she's gained over 12 kgs (25lbs) in about 2 months & is really pretty healthy now & even has motions daily (as opposed to once every 5-6 days) & without screaming in agony with them.

But she is having almost constant (& i'm not exagerating) foul gas smells erupting from her anus - horrid to be near her but worse to be her in this regard. She has sought out help from forums re irritable bowel etc & was told it would happen for about a week at 1 month & then another week at 3 months after going on the diet well that was over 6 weeks ago & she's been on the diet for 2 months & had the gsa for 2 months. It sometimes seems to be worse if she has alot of fruit but really it just is there almost constantly.

As she is studying she is out with others (aside from family who won't be cruel) & I am really worried about the effect if people start saying things - which may already be happening.

Please help.


I had the same problem, only worse because not only did mine have odor but they were loud and I couldn't even feel them coming on... surprise attacks, most embarrassing. Once my son brought home a girl for me to meet... we were laughing hard and I farted so loud... it was soooo embarrassing!

I am also overweight so I decided to go on the Atkins diet. My gas stopped completely. Now if I cheat on the diet and sneak carbs... I'm back to farting and loose stools.

I guess I'm a good candidate for "Atkins for Life". It wouldn't hurt her to try staying away from carbs and see if that is also her problems. Or, it may be anothe type of food.
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replied February 20th, 2009
Re: Somewhat Similiar Concern
I can eat all the items listed as high gas and not get so much as a tiny bit of gas until I add carbs to it. I eat loads of broccoli and cauliflower, eggs every a.m.... I thinks gas is caused by carbs because when I'm on Atkins I don't get ANY.
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replied March 7th, 2009
Hopefully this will help
I feel all of your pain. I had horrible gas for quite some time. It was so bad that my husband had to sleep in another room. Well I went to the GI dr and found it is a bad bacteria. I had IBS for years found out it is really an allergy to dairy. I also stay away from carbs and that helps. Well my GI prescribed me a medication called Xixifan. It was a God send. It worked right away. It's expensive but worth it. i would recommend this to anyone. I might have the spelling wrong a little bit. You can also try probiotics. This will help get rid of some of that bad bacteria. For the person with the little balls in the throat those are harmless. Basically those are called Tonsil Balls. I had the same thing and it's food and plaque that get stuck in the pits of your tonsils. You can try gargle with something called ALKOLOL. I got this at the pharmacy at Target and that seemed to help also. Good luck to everyone and I hope this all helps.
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replied March 15th, 2009
u need O2
its bcoz ur body couldnt able to digest the food u had eaten... u need more oxygen...DO PRANAYAMA IN EARLY MORNING... i m very sure, it would help..


inhale air slowly and deeply....
pause it for few secs
exhale slowly ....
pause ....

repeat the cycle....


DO DRINK MORE HOT WATER .
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replied May 8th, 2009
IBS
hi I've been suffering with IBS ever since 8th grade and now I'm 22 and still suffering with it although it has gotten much worse. I also suffer from lactose and gluten intolerance, which basically has left me with a tiny variety of foods. carbohydrates I cannot eat, dairy products, gas producing vegetables as well. I also used to be a coffee lover but I had to give this up as well as fruit juices. meats even fish trigger my colon and whats worse is going over to people and having to reject anything they serve you as well as carrying the medicines with you to take directly when the pain starts attacking. my metabolism really slowed down because I'm not really eating except veggies and a small combination of foods.
with all this in mind I still suffer from gas so I really don't know what else to do
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replied May 21st, 2009
To Purple333
Hi, what carbohydrate diet/foods did your daughter eat to gain the 25 lbs in 2 months? I need to gain weight and want to do the same to be healthy. Please tell me! You wrote the following:

in any case she ahs to have a specific carbohydrate diet as a result she's gained over 12 kgs (25lbs) in about 2 months & is really pretty healthy now
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replied July 11th, 2009
If you suffer and you have the patience to read this
Hi I'm 30 and the foul gas started for me after 6 months of drinking boost and eating vector these are meal replacements that I added to my diet to gain weight. I never gained weight and now its been 6 years of living hell. Everybody I meet think I'm either gay or have a disease and I'm never sure how long I'll be able to hold down a job because of the same discontent. To make things worse I take public transit and yes I hear every voice shouting obsenities. The smell reminds me of being on a farm standing next to a dead carcass of a cow. But other people say they smell a diseased prostitute. And at work people think I'm gay and just masturbate all day. I havent had sex since I was 18 and my confidence is evidently non existant and I've lost the strength to stand up for myself. Some time I feel like I'd be better off dead. Even my apartment stinks, I shower every day which dosnt help and no matter how much I do laundry nothing seems to make a difference. 10 years ago I would have been in the same crowd making fun and yelling obsenities and now I'd be happy just for somebody to accept me. Thanks to reading the comments on this page I think I might be able to find a treatment or just waste what little time and money I have ,trying to fix myself. What ever this is its a sickness that no human being should be put through. I have all but given up and I just hope to god that its not some unknown contageous disease and on the darker side of things I'm so embarraced that I cant even work up the nerve to go see a doctor because I dont know where that could lead. If I lost my job I hardly think I'd be able to get disabilities for something they would class as minor yet its next to impossible just to get and keep a job. I've seen how long it takes to go through the different social programns and they would sooner leave me waiting for nothing and the last thing I need is another reason to struggle and starve wondering how I'll keep from being homeless. But I sure do miss being an average human being, I will try what ever treatments that were formentioned on this page and I will pray for all of us who suffer from this and if any of this works I swear to god I will dedicate my life to getting this disorder known so that people out there know they are not alone and there is hope. I dont know what inspired me to ramble like this but I feel that anybody suffering from this should get this message and we should all pray for eachother. But most of all we should hold our heads up high because we know who we are as people and god will watch over us and god loves all of us. Just ignore the disgust people show towards you and live the life you earned and if anybody has a problem with that well just let them have a problem its thier problem we have enough to worry about and that gurgle in our guts dosnt need more stress. Remember "vengance is mine" said the Lord and what ever he has planned for people who hurt people will be some day. But those who have faith will bring heaven down to earth. Care for others who nobody cares for, walk a mile in the shoes of Jesus and you'll be rewarded with the strength to survive persicution. Faith is the most potent medicine in the entire universe we just need to tap into the pharmacy locked inside our brain it will help us in the long term but for now all we can do is seek out knowledge. Thank god for the internet I would have never known whats going on and never known that there are others like me. In health books they dont even mention foul gas being associated with irritable bowel syndrome. And unfortunatley it dosnt effect enough people for it to be studied by mainstream medical industry, money seems to be the only thing that inspires the medical industry. Anyway thank you all for your comments and I apologise if I sound crazy but thats what living like this has done. I wish I could talk to all of you. God bless all of you and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
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replied November 7th, 2011
i'm glad to read this, never thought that my case could get any worse. It started 4 years ago and i'm only 19 . i guess i didn't predict it happening, i just hope we can end all the suffering and misery of those who are defined as human beings and no person how bad and evil they are should experience this tragedy, sad when the only one who cares about you is yourself..
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replied February 22nd, 2012
sound just like my problem. This has gone on for years. It comes and goes, and I still have not gotten an answer. One sure does get sick and tired of this. I have seen a Dr. at one point, that did not help either. and didn't go back. One for sure does not know what to eat anymore if anything.
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replied February 29th, 2012
to the guy whose office bullies were rude
It is okay... I understand and have the same issues. I'm 23 and suffered for about 4 years,3 years that I didn't even notice really. Co workers were the first to become ridicolously rude and thank god I Work with my girlfriend because I would have quit. I told my main manager and he was so mad because it was his friend/my shift manager who was making the cruel comments and getting everyone to turn the food court into jr high drama. What we have is candida,a yeast overgrowth in our intestines which has caused leakey gut syndrom. Feel free to google candida and leaky gut to get more informed. You need to some way manage to get health insurance and go immediately to a GI specialist and tell the dr you want to be tested for candida overgrowth. He will take a stool sample,so be prepared to give one. And as for work tell your boss,no matter how embarassing it is,that you are sick,you have leakey gut syndrom due to candida overgrowth and are will start meds or are taking medication,depending on when you tell him. Before or after going to GI. And when that smart guy behind you gets fresh,tell him in a serious non threating way that you are very ill and you don't find it very humorous that people are sick. You wouldn't laugh and make fun of people who lose their hair due to cancer,why joke about someone who is ill. Because 95% of people who have candida and leaky gut do get cancer in their colon and bowels,but Don't worry though and just pray. I hope I helped you in some way and god bless you friend.
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replied March 8th, 2012
Are you possibly Celiac?
Are you possibly Celiac?
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replied July 11th, 2009
If you suffer and have the patience to read this
Hi I'm 30 and the foul gas started for me after 6 months of drinking boost and eating vector these are meal replacements that I added to my diet to gain weight. I never gained weight and now its been 6 years of living hell. Everybody I meet think I'm either gay or have a disease and I'm never sure how long I'll be able to hold down a job because of the same discontent. To make things worse I take public transit and yes I hear every voice shouting obsenities. The smell reminds me of being on a farm standing next to a dead carcass of a cow. But other people say they smell a diseased prostitute. And at work people think I'm gay and just masturbate all day. I havent had sex since I was 18 and my confidence is evidently non existant and I've lost the strength to stand up for myself. Some time I feel like I'd be better off dead. Even my apartment stinks, I shower every day which dosnt help and no matter how much I do laundry nothing seems to make a difference. 10 years ago I would have been in the same crowd making fun and yelling obsenities and now I'd be happy just for somebody to accept me. Thanks to reading the comments on this page I think I might be able to find a treatment or just waste what little time and money I have ,trying to fix myself. What ever this is its a sickness that no human being should be put through. I have all but given up and I just hope to god that its not some unknown contageous disease and on the darker side of things I'm so embarraced that I cant even work up the nerve to go see a doctor because I dont know where that could lead. If I lost my job I hardly think I'd be able to get disabilities for something they would class as minor yet its next to impossible just to get and keep a job. I've seen how long it takes to go through the different social programns and they would sooner leave me waiting for nothing and the last thing I need is another reason to struggle and starve wondering how I'll keep from being homeless. But I sure do miss being an average human being, I will try what ever treatments that were formentioned on this page and I will pray for all of us who suffer from this and if any of this works I swear to god I will dedicate my life to getting this disorder known so that people out there know they are not alone and there is hope. I dont know what inspired me to ramble like this but I feel that anybody suffering from this should get this message and we should all pray for eachother. But most of all we should hold our heads up high because we know who we are as people and god will watch over us and god loves all of us. Just ignore the disgust people show towards you and live the life you earned and if anybody has a problem with that well just let them have a problem its thier problem we have enough to worry about and that gurgle in our guts dosnt need more stress. Remember "vengance is mine" said the Lord and what ever he has planned for people who hurt people will be some day. But those who have faith will bring heaven down to earth. Care for others who nobody cares for, walk a mile in the shoes of Jesus and you'll be rewarded with the strength to survive persicution. Faith is the most potent medicine in the entire universe we just need to tap into the pharmacy locked inside our brain it will help us in the long term but for now all we can do is seek out knowledge. Thank god for the internet I would have never known whats going on and never known that there are others like me. In health books they dont even mention foul gas being associated with irritable bowel syndrome. And unfortunatley it dosnt effect enough people for it to be studied by mainstream medical industry, money seems to be the only thing that inspires the medical industry. Anyway thank you all for your comments and I apologise if I sound crazy but thats what living like this has done. I wish I could talk to all of you. God bless all of you and I mean that from the bottom of my heart.
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replied September 27th, 2009
Lactose which is in many processed food products can cause all the above symptoms. Imodium helps slow down digestion and gasX helps break up gas bubbles. For stomach pain use antiacid for acid over production. You can also look online for herbs like mint, licorice, ginger, which on help with stomach discomfort.
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replied December 18th, 2011
bad smelling gas
I was having issues and diarrhea after I had my gallbladder taken out. I found out through my own research that drinking Lactaid milk helps with the gas and if I want to have cheese or ice cream I take a Lactaid pill with the first bite of food containing lactose. It has helped alot . Maybe this will be of help to someone.
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replied October 8th, 2009
living in hell
i have been suffering in silence for over 4 years and i believe it was the reason i lost my job it feels like my life has been consumed by the fear of being noticed as the person producing such a foul smell and when the comments started i just wanted to curl up into a ball and die i have had no peace of mind even in my own home as my own mother has mocked me and even the neighbors have banged on their walls as if that would stop it i even tried to appease them by sitting on the toilet for for over a hour on numerous occasions believing that i could rid myself of the terrible burden i carry alas to no avail my confidence has been so low i developed depression anxiety and paranoia and being in such a state has robbed me of having a leg to stand on as i have felt guilty when the people i called friends decided to take shots at me,not being able to detect the smell ive been taunted as if i was unaware of my situation and ive tried to rationalize their insults by saying to myself that they were going through the stages of denial and it is a natural response and i cannot expect them to understand my turmoil but it has held me back for too long now as ive denied myself holidays for fear of being on a aeroplane for hours seeking education and especially my wanting to find love but it has opened my eyes to some peoples true colors if i disregard the rationalizations i made previously which when i look back on it i see that i was delusional and was hoping things would change but as of yet they have not ive looked to god by reading the bible expecting a miracle to procure but like they say god works in mysterious ways ive practiced chi gong for a while but not a regular as suggested and my next step is to visit a Chinese medical herb shop so i guess there is still hope left for me to all those that share this terrible affliction my heart goes out to you and i know we can get through this thanks to this site it has been the first time ive been able to converse with people in the same situation and for that i am deeply grateful if only for the opportunity to share my experience with others thank you and never give up and i encourage you to share your own experience because for me it has lifted some of the pain
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