A) Why is this on women's sexual health?

B) I don't know why you have make a point to proclaim to everyone who you've lost respect for.

C) I work 8-12 hour days in a restaurant. I work my butt off to pay for school. My life isn't easier or better than a lot of people's. I'm not complaining. Just don't go comparing people you don't even know to other people you do know based on their line of work. It's not fair.

I didn't know people were hiring farm workers from spain. I'm not really sure what your point is here Roberta, except (to paraphrase) you think it's OK for you to have immigrants working on your farm? Just want to make sure I understand that part.

She meant Mexican workers.....

i got the point. seems pretty plain to me. she's sorta telling people to think about the bigger picture and stop being hypocrites. of course telling people that sometimes makes them a little grumpy.

I have no problem with them here as long as they are, and have everything legal just like I have to

I meant Mexican workers. But, even they refer to themselves as Spanish. Maybe it is because of their language.

My computer does not have a General Debate option so I usually just go to Women's Health.

My former vineyard manager has been farming all his life and was raised in Salinas where there is a large work force of farm laborers. In the 1960's, there was a real effort to get documentation for these workers. Apparently, it just did not work out the way the politicians had promised. Same thing is happening today. They workers are pretty aware of what is happening and the promises made and broken to them.

Many of the crew who work for me have paid thousands of dollars to attorneys to help them get their paper work on being legal. My vineyard manager had an appointment with Immigration people in Los Angles, but he could not drive down there because they were in the middle of harvest. So he had to cancel. He says that it costs $10,000.00 for him to get his paper work through and $10,000.00 for his wife and for each of his little girls. I don't quite understand the part about his little girls who were born here and by birthright are American citizens. He says he doesn't have that kind of money and never will.

He recently asked for a $5.00 an hour raise and was refused. He left his job where he had worked for ten years to take another one at a lot less.

One thing about many of these vineyard crew workers, they have two months where there is no work for them. Many return home to see their families in Mexico for Christmas. Some never make it back. Some have told me that they have to walk for over 30 hours with nothing but a gallon of water to get them through. It is a hard life but many feel they can earn money to send back home to their families.

Another man has a wife and two little girls in Mexico. He has been here for two years. That is a sad life, a young man not being able to be with his wife and children.

Others come here and work for four or five years and save all they can as well as sending money to parents and younger brothers and sisters. Then they go back because they want to.

I generally agree with you Roberta, except for this:

(Interesting that my pathetic employment history is coming up again.)

I have worked in jobs where I have to arrive before dawn. I have worked for $7. I have lived without insurance and no money to pay my medical bills, and faced the decision to go to the doctor or just deal with health problems until they get so bad you can't ignore them. You can't say that everyone who is a legal citizen has a better life. That's just not true.

Anyway, if a person is here working under a labor contractor, isn't that legal? Aren't they here on a work permit or something?

Maybe I'm just missing the point.

to your question about having people work here on my ranch when they are illegal immigrants, I really don't have a choice. There literally are no other people willing to do that kind of hard labor.

I get out there and do as much as I can. Several other women who own vineyards do their own pruning and hire labor to drive the tractors and do the spraying. But, when it comes time for harvest, you have to get out there and get in the crop. Everything depends on the Brics level, the sugars in the grapes. Too low and you have bad wine, too high and you have too much alchohol which makes for bad wine too.

Two of my crew were out last week to help me begin pruning. One had been working a few days before putting in a new vineyard when he had an eye injury from a wire hitting him in the face and eye. He went to the urgent care but could not afford to have the prescription filled because he had just rent for his family and there again, no money. I told him to get the medicine for his eye. I gave him a check. They came back because he could not cash the check. Went to the bank to give him the money for the medicine. As hard as they work, it still is not easy for them nor for anybody who works hard and goes to school or even someone just trying to hold onto their property.

Well I actually was saying that they sounded like they were "legal" immigrants-- or at least temporarily legal. Usually people working under labor contractors are, right?

But I'm glad that you try to help them face the discrimination. Personally, I think anyone working in this country should have all the same rights as anyone else.

Sometimes I don't see the forests for the trees. I just wasn't scrolling down far enough to find the debate forums. Found it and will use it from now on.

When Javier was injured, he reported it to the Labor Contractor's brother and he said he didn't seem to even care. The Labor Contractor was down in Mexico on vacation.

I don't understand what they do to make sure they are indeed legal. However, starting the first of the year, it will be up to the Labor Contractor to make sure that the workers have valid Social Security numbers. Otherwise, he will be severely fined. A lot of workers have already returned to Mexico and we were all pretty worried around harvest with a shortage of crews to do the harvest.

They come up through Los Angeles, I have been told, where they get Social Security numbers which enables them to get driver's licenses. Many of the vineyard managers buy cars and trucks for them and pay for the insurance to ensure that they can get to and from work.

I hear you on working hard and not having insurance. I have been hungry more than once myself when I was 18 years old with a small child. Guess it just makes us work harder and appreciate what we have.

Oh I see. I didn't quite understand the situation but that makes sense.

Lol- I'm glad you found the right board!

Sorry, I wasn't being grumpy about it-I just wanted to make sure that i understoof correctly, because in her first post she didn't indicate whether the workers were legal, illegal, or otherwise, and i couldn't tell if she was advocating for it or against it, that's all.

is still the hardest thing in the world, isn't it?

Thanks for all your support in many ways.

As vineyard owners, and members of grape growers, we take a monthly class on legal issues, taking care of our crews, making sure they have two 15 minute breaks and a 30 minute lunch break, bathroom facilities, shade, proper gear for protecting them because otherwise, you are responsible if anything bad happens to them. Let alone how horrible you would feel if they had an accident. And, sometimes bad things can happen. By law you are required to call the County Agricultural Board and they get out here and you can be in serious trouble.

I also had to pass a really hard test for even having chemicals on my property even though I do not do the spraying of them. We are just trying to do the best that we can.

I personally cannot answer the question of the validity of the Labor Contractor. I just know they send me a bill and I pay it with all those FICA, St. Unemployment Insurance, Federal Unemployment Insurance, Worker's Compensation Tax and the Commission to the Labor Contractor of 14.4% with all of it coming to 35% above what the workers get. I have no idea how they are paid. But, seeing how hard it was for Javier to even cash a check, who knows? Maybe they get paid in cash. Don't know.

I know my gardener is able to cash his check with no problem.

I do know that an attorney spoke to us and said we need to get a document from the Labor Contractor showing us as additional insured. I asked for it but never got it.

Pretty much have gone back to my original vineyard workers who worked for us for four years, Javier and Javier Jesus. Together with them, I feel the three of us can work on this place.

This is a really complex issue. I know it is. To this very day, one of my best friends in the world who was in our wedding 44 years ago still sends me e-mails about the illegal immigrants. I keep telling her please to stop as I cannot survive without help from these people. Goes to show you, we all have the right to our opinions.