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Q: Robert Latimer
asked by: marvel on December 7th, 2007
Supporter
Here is a debate that has flared up over here in Canada over the past couple of days. Robert Latimer, a man who is serving a life sentence for the homicide of his daughter, Tracy, was denied day parole today because he didn't feel remorse for his daughter's death. Why? She was severely handicapped and he killed her to stop any current and future suffering.

Quote:


December 7, 2007

Every day, Laura Latimer speaks to her husband on the telephone - a small comfort that bridges the 1,650 kilometres between their Saskatchewan farm and his Vancouver Island jail cell.

Now, despite what Mrs. Latimer had hoped, that routine will continue at least another two years, after the National Parole Board denied day parole to Robert Latimer, who is serving a life sentence for the second-degree homicide of his severely disabled daughter.

"It's just a sad day, that's all. Really sad," Ms. Latimer said yesterday from her home near Wilkie, Sask.

Ms. Latimer did not attend her husband's parole hearing on Wednesday, because she wanted to avoid attention from the media, she said. Soon, Mrs. Latimer and her grown son will travel west and visit Mr. Latimer at the William Head minimum security prison near Victoria.

He won't have another chance to apply for day parole for two years.

The board's decision has reignited an ethical debate that gripped the country in 1993, when Mr. Latimer, a Saskatchewan farmer, was charged with homicide in the death of his 12-year-old daughter, Tracy.

Some called Tracy's death a "mercy killing" - one that saved the 45-pound girl with cerebral palsy from a life of constant pain and multiple surgeries. But advocates for the rights of disabled people say that would send the message that their lives are worth less than others.

Mr. Latimer has never wavered from his position: That he saved his daughter from a life racked by pain. At his parole hearing, the three-member board said they were struck by his refusal to admit his actions were wrong, and apparent lack of remorse.

The board recommended to Corrections Canada that Mr. Latimer participate in some counselling.

Mrs. Latimer declined to be interviewed at length yesterday, saying she had decided not to speak to the media about her life or her husband's situation.

"It just sort of turns into a circus," she said.

In the past, Mrs. Latimer has been publicly steadfast in her support of her husband. During her husband's trial, she testified that she and Mr. Latimer, who have three other children, always provided the best care possible for Tracy.

She sobbed after he was convicted of second-degree homicide on Nov. 16, 1994, saying outside the Battleford, Sask., court that "whatever hell they put him through will not begin to match the hell that our little girl went through."

She also criticized a justice system that could lock up a "good and loving" father, who would bathe Tracy and rock her for hours.

At a 2001 vigil outside Saskatchewan Penitentiary, where Mr. Latimer was incarcerated at the time, Mrs. Latimer said in front of a crowd of about 300 supporters: "We love you, Bob, we want you home, we miss you.

"We're going to keep watching, we're not going to rest, we won't rest until you're home."






I know this can probably also be in the Euthanasia debate, but the question I wanted to ask was how do we know that Tracy Latimer felt pain? If she was severely handicapped, how do we know if she reacted to pain.... felt pain etc? And if she didn't feel any pain, would her death, like that of an aborted zef (zygote, embryo, fetus) be "ok"? Additionally, would she be considered conscious at such a severe level of mental retardation?

You can also argue if you think her homicide was moral or not if you so desire.
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Tylanas
replied on December 8th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
It's so hard in these cases, because a major part of me says "yes, it was right". The other part of me says "it's against the law".

Mercy vs Justice.
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Sandbox Party
replied on December 8th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
i agree with Eiri..
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kaerbear
replied on December 8th, 2007
Most Diplomatic Poster
I guess if he made that decision for her he also knew there might be consequences such as a lifetime in jail. It is against the law. She didn't make the decision but I believe he made it for her out of mercy and I feel for him for that. I know how hard it is to see your child suffer and if I were ever faced with that decision I would probably be willing to face the consequences regardless. I don't know what I would do if I were in his shoes and it's hard to judge him. But a message has to be sent to others that her life did have value and the choice to die was not her own. I think he should have day parole, personally, because he is not a threat to anyone, but at the same time, I think it is right that he is in jail. The real injustice is that there are people with no regard for life (like people who drink and drive) who do less time or no time at all.
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marvel
replied on December 8th, 2007
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Eiri wrote:
It's so hard in these cases, because a major part of me says "yes, it was right". The other part of me says "it's against the law".

Mercy vs Justice.


ok, I'm not the only one.
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Birch
replied on December 8th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
If they didn't punish the father, I think it would reflect on society's values towards the disabled, children, and females.
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meblonde01
replied on December 8th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
Who was that one girl that her husband wanted the feeding stopped and her parents didn't.. I can't remember her name.. But I felt the way they let her strave and no water was terrible!
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Tylanas
replied on December 8th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
Terry Shivo (sp). Same case pretty much.

I think I agree with Kaerbear. That's how my mind feels about the situation.

And the comment about drunk drivers: Seriously!!! That's not fair at all!
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kaerbear
replied on December 8th, 2007
Most Diplomatic Poster
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Birch
replied on December 8th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
Thank you for the link, kaerbear. I saw "ex cop" and immediately raised an eyebrow.

You all remember the woman who left her kid in the car during the summer and her daughter died?

http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2007/0 9/has-white-woman-brenda-nesselroad-slaby. html
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Birch
replied on December 8th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
Thank you for the link, kaerbear. I saw "ex cop" and immediately raised an eyebrow.

You all remember the woman who left her kid in the car during the summer and her daughter died?

http://blackcincinnati.blogspot.com/2007/0 9/has-white-woman-brenda-nesselroad-slaby. html
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Tylanas
replied on December 8th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
Frickin' double standards....
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-Tanya-
replied on December 8th, 2007
Active User, very eHealthy
The Canadian justice systems main focus is rehabilitation. He has nothing to be rehabilitated from, and is not a threat to public safety. He is not a candidate for reoffending and keeping him in prison is costing $51 000 a year.
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marvel
replied on December 9th, 2007
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Well, and it's main focus is to enforce the rule of law. I think that's why there's such a big controversy. He broke the law, but has nothing to be rehabilitated from. interesting.
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Gu£st
replied on December 9th, 2007
Active User, very eHealthy
I understand why he did it, but I cant understand what makes him think he had the right to do it.
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Jincks013
replied on December 9th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
marvel wrote:
Well, and it's main focus is to enforce the rule of law. I think that's why there's such a big controversy. He broke the law, but has nothing to be rehabilitated from. interesting.


The Oregon Accountability Model was taken from the canadian system and yes while he broke the law and took a life (where's PL when you need'em?) he is not a danger to society at large.
Rehabilitation works well for people with certain criminogenic factors; factors which are assessed at intake; a treatment plan developed at that point and initiated which can and usually does involve single and group therapy; treatment of drug / alcohol related issues; addressing lack of education and job skills: life coping skills; budget management; parenting classes.

You see only what the news media chooses to show you but life behind bars is far different then Pelican bay facility in California or that discovery channel show that highlights the worst prisons.
No Mr. Latimer should not have gone free; he violated a societal norm and is paying the price but it is very unlikely he will get out of prison and go kill severely disabled children or any of his other children therefore there is not need to rehabilitate because he is not a threat.
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Sandbox Party
replied on December 9th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
Gu£st wrote:
I understand why he did it, but I cant understand what makes him think he had the right to do it.


you obviously do NOT have children..
Would you be able to sit back and watch a loved one deteriorate day after day, getting worse never to get better? Would you be able to accept the simple fact that this person will never be able to enjoy life, and will no doubt suffer each and every day until their death?

OR would you want them to be in a better place, without suffering, without deteriorating, without having to watch everyone else live incredible lives and sit back and feel sorry for themselves?

I think what he did was justified in a moral light, but when it comes down to the legality of things, it *is* against the law to intentionally take a human life.

So its a fight between morality and legality. Who wins? No one.. because either way your wrong.
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SmartyShirt
replied on December 9th, 2007
Experienced User
Don't take a life.
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Tylanas
replied on December 9th, 2007
Especially eHealthy
SmartyShirt wrote:
Don't take a life.

Stop eating and breathing. You're killing animals and plants. Never use antibiotics for your sicknesses since it kills bacteria. Oxygen is a poison to many forms of life. So is carbon dioxide.
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SmartyShirt
replied on December 9th, 2007
Experienced User
Sorry let me redo it

Try not to take a life.
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