meblonde01
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Posted: 12-05-07 08:07am
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| redeme
wrote: | wow, can i just say eiri you
nailed that on the head.
guest, while your post did have some very
interesting views, you still have to first
believe in god to take any of it on board.
You need a reality check if your comparing
a solid object like a table or car to
"God", which seems to be the whole general
jist of your post.
SCIENCE has proved time and time again
that the right conditions and chemicals or
substances something can grow from nothing
or have a reaction in a split second.
could this not be possible for the
universe also? and can you speak
universally for the "creator" when youve
never experienced god from any part of the
universe accept for earth? yet your
willing to make claims that he created the
earth and all nature forgeting that we
dont even know how far the universe goes
and the earth is only a tiny pinpoint of
possibly one of the smallest galaxys in
the universe. |
how did the chemicals and substances get
there? They did grow from nothing.. There
had to be something there to grow from..
How did they get there?
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Tylanas
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Joined: 13 Jul 2005
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Posted: 12-05-07 10:49am
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| meblonde01
wrote: | | redeme
wrote: | wow, can i just say eiri you
nailed that on the head.
guest, while your post did have some very
interesting views, you still have to first
believe in god to take any of it on board.
You need a reality check if your comparing
a solid object like a table or car to
"God", which seems to be the whole general
jist of your post.
SCIENCE has proved time and time again
that the right conditions and chemicals or
substances something can grow from nothing
or have a reaction in a split second.
could this not be possible for the
universe also? and can you speak
universally for the "creator" when youve
never experienced god from any part of the
universe accept for earth? yet your
willing to make claims that he created the
earth and all nature forgeting that we
dont even know how far the universe goes
and the earth is only a tiny pinpoint of
possibly one of the smallest galaxys in
the universe. |
how did the chemicals and substances get
there? They did grow from nothing.. There
had to be something there to grow from..
How did they get
there? |
Which chemicals and substances? The answer
matters.
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Gu£st
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Apr 2007
Posts: 767
Location: SUBMERGED IN TRUTH
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Posted: 12-05-07 18:44pm
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Eiri can i continue this discussion with
you personally via private messaging?
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Tylanas
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Joined: 13 Jul 2005
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Posted: 12-05-07 23:11pm
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I suppose so 
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redeme
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 71
Location: australia
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Posted: 12-06-07 01:49am
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"how did the chemicals and substances get
there? They did grow from nothing.. There
had to be something there to grow from..
How did they get there?"
is that a serious question? did you pass
science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that
there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we
know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions
and guest your soft, no reply to that just
like i thought. your so unwilling to even
consider the possibilitys of a universal
creation without some kind of big
invisible force in the "heavens"..
ignorent fool
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
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Posted: 12-06-07 09:14am
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| Eiri
wrote: | | meblonde01
wrote: | | redeme
wrote: | wow, can i just say eiri you
nailed that on the head.
guest, while your post did have some very
interesting views, you still have to first
believe in god to take any of it on board.
You need a reality check if your comparing
a solid object like a table or car to
"God", which seems to be the whole general
jist of your post.
SCIENCE has proved time and time again
that the right conditions and chemicals or
substances something can grow from nothing
or have a reaction in a split second.
could this not be possible for the
universe also? and can you speak
universally for the "creator" when youve
never experienced god from any part of the
universe accept for earth? yet your
willing to make claims that he created the
earth and all nature forgeting that we
dont even know how far the universe goes
and the earth is only a tiny pinpoint of
possibly one of the smallest galaxys in
the universe. |
how did the chemicals and substances get
there? They did grow from nothing.. There
had to be something there to grow from..
How did they get
there? |
Which chemicals and substances? The answer
matters. |
the chemicals and substances that Redme is
talking about..
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
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Posted: 12-06-07 09:18am
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| redeme
wrote: | "how did the chemicals and
substances get there? They did grow from
nothing.. There had to be something there
to grow from.. How did they get there?"
is that a serious question? did you pass
science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that
there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we
know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions
and guest your soft, no reply to that just
like i thought. your so unwilling
to even consider the possibilitys of a
universal creation without some kind of
big invisible force in the "heavens"..
ignorent fool |
Name calling is not necessary, it shows
your lack of adult IQ.. But in life have
known that nothing come from nothing! Even
if there is vapor.. it had to get there
some how! Things just don't happen out of
the clear blue!
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 727
Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
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Posted: 12-06-07 09:30am
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I believe in a higher power and
supernatural things, but I think that only
goes so far. Meaning, no, there isn't a
God who just creates things. I definitely
believe human beings evolved somehow. You
can put prokaryotic cells in a petri dish
and they can sit forever and then somehow
multiply. Scientists do it all the time.
So who knows. I just know we didn't
*poof* come into existence all magical
like. That's very silly to me.
I used to struggle with it all the time.
Now I just figure that if no one knows for
100% sure, then it wasn't meant to be
known as a fact and we'll find out later.
Enjoy the ride.
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
Thanks: 6
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Posted: 12-06-07 09:52am
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| Jude-Love
wrote: | I believe in a higher power
and supernatural things, but I think that
only goes so far. Meaning, no, there
isn't a God who just creates things. I
definitely believe human beings evolved
somehow. You can put prokaryotic cells in
a petri dish and they can sit forever and
then somehow multiply. Scientists do it
all the time. So who knows. I just know
we didn't *poof* come into existence all
magical like. That's very silly to me.
I used to struggle with it all the time.
Now I just figure that if no one knows for
100% sure, then it wasn't meant to be
known as a fact and we'll find out later.
Enjoy the
ride. |
Good point.. I don't think we just
happened out a a big boom.. But no one is
100% sure of anything! And like you said
we will all find out later.. 
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 12-06-07 11:44am
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| redeme
wrote: | "how did the chemicals and
substances get there? They did grow from
nothing.. There had to be something there
to grow from.. How did they get there?"
is that a serious question? did you pass
science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that
there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we
know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions
and guest your soft, no reply to that just
like i thought. your so unwilling to even
consider the possibilitys of a universal
creation without some kind of big
invisible force in the "heavens"..
ignorent fool |
No insulting anyone on my thread.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 12-06-07 11:46am
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| meblonde01
wrote: | | Eiri
wrote: |
Which chemicals and substances? The answer
matters. |
the chemicals and substances that Redme is
talking
about.. |
Again: Do you mean the ones that were
already on earth? Or do you mean the
elements of the universe at the time of
the big bang? I can answer one of those
questions; the other I cannot.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 12-06-07 11:49am
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| meblonde01
wrote: | | redeme
wrote: | "how did the chemicals and
substances get there? They did grow from
nothing.. There had to be something there
to grow from.. How did they get there?"
is that a serious question? did you pass
science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that
there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we
know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions
and guest your soft, no reply to that just
like i thought. your so unwilling
to even consider the possibilitys of a
universal creation without some kind of
big invisible force in the "heavens"..
ignorent fool |
Name calling is not necessary, it shows
your lack of adult IQ.. But in life have
known that nothing come from nothing! Even
if there is vapor.. it had to get there
some how! Things just don't happen out of
the clear
blue! |
You are correct, life itself did NOT come
out of nothing. There were proteins
floating around in the primitive oceans;
there were many elements, and there was
electricity. Scientists have actually done
this to a certain level: They filled a
large jar (air tight) with liquids and
gases with minerals and elements present
on primordial earth. Then they charged it
with electricity equivalent to a lightning
strike. Primitive proteins formed: The
building-blocks of life. So it is 100%
possible and HAPPENED.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 12-06-07 11:52am
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| Jude-Love
wrote: | I believe in a higher power
and supernatural things, but I think that
only goes so far. Meaning, no, there
isn't a God who just creates things. I
definitely believe human beings evolved
somehow. You can put prokaryotic cells in
a petri dish and they can sit forever and
then somehow multiply. Scientists do it
all the time. So who knows. I just know
we didn't *poof* come into existence all
magical like. That's very silly to me.
I used to struggle with it all the time.
Now I just figure that if no one knows for
100% sure, then it wasn't meant to be
known as a fact and we'll find out later.
Enjoy the
ride. |
Evolution of life of earth is fairly easy
to understand (if a bit tedious). You
sound like you've got the basics down. As
for the big bang? I'm certain it happened
since all evidence currently points that
way.
I'd like to ask anyone who does not
believe in the big bang:
How do you explain the fact that all
observations tell us that our universe was
once contained in one tiny point, yet now
is not? AND the fact that our universe is
now and always has been expanding? Does it not make
logical sense that out universe exploded
into existence? I am not asking what
CAUSED the big bang. I'm asking if you
believe the universe exploded into
existence.
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
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Thanked:2
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Posted: 12-06-07 12:10pm
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| Eiri
wrote: | | meblonde01
wrote: | | redeme
wrote: | "how did the chemicals and
substances get there? They did grow from
nothing.. There had to be something there
to grow from.. How did they get there?"
is that a serious question? did you pass
science in high school or what??
your telling me it 100% impossible that
there wasnt just a void of space
that slowly grew into the universe as we
know it today via chemical and or
atmospheric reactions
and guest your soft, no reply to that just
like i thought. your so unwilling
to even consider the possibilitys of a
universal creation without some kind of
big invisible force in the "heavens"..
ignorent fool |
Name calling is not necessary, it shows
your lack of adult IQ.. But in life have
known that nothing come from nothing! Even
if there is vapor.. it had to get there
some how! Things just don't happen out of
the clear
blue! |
You are correct, life itself did NOT come
out of nothing. There were proteins
floating around in the primitive oceans;
there were many elements, and there was
electricity. Scientists have actually done
this to a certain level: They filled a
large jar (air tight) with liquids and
gases with minerals and elements present
on primordial earth. Then they charged it
with electricity equivalent to a lightning
strike. Primitive proteins formed: The
building-blocks of life. So it is 100%
possible and
HAPPENED. |
Eiri, I still don't understand. I know
that things are formed from elements from
the oceans. ETC. But how did it all get
there?
Something had to first be there to get the
earth! To get the Oceans, to get the
elements for the big bang for elvulation
to start. That's the part I don't
understand. How did it all get there? I
know they can take a jar and put liguids
in it and gases and minerals. I'm not
questioning any of that. I want to know
how the elements on earth got to earth..
The elements that made Earth. How did they
get there? And I don't think there is a
solid answer.. That is why I keep going
back too... "something had to come from
somewhere to start it all" I am not
aruging I am questioning.. 
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
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Thanked:0
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Posted: 12-06-07 12:34pm
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The elements got to earth when our planet
formed. Our solar system formed as a whole
from the remnants of a possible supernova
or a small nebula. I'll go find a site to
explain it in more detail for you Trust me; our
planet and the solar system and our galaxy
did NOT poof out of nowhere. They are the
products of billions of years of
development. The history of the human race
doesn't start with Earth; it starts at the
big bang!!
From NASA: h
ttp://science.hq.nasa.gov/solar_system/sci
ence/formation.html
| Quote: | Our Solar System
began as a rotating cloud of gas and dust
about 4.6 billion years ago. Something,
perhaps a shockwave from a nearby
supernove, caused that cloud to begin to
coalesce. Smaller particles clumped
together into increasingly larger objects,
with the greatest density in the center.
The spinning motion caused the cloud to
flatten into a pancake called an accretion
disk.
Over millions of years, the center of this
disk accumulated mass, and as the mass
increased, so did the temperature.
Eventually, the core reached a critical
point when it ignited – nuclear fusion
began. The Sun was born.
Meanwhile the disk continued to spin,
containing all of the gas and dust that
hadn't been sucked into the Sun. Within
this material were the building blocks of
every bit of matter we have on Earth
today, including minerals, water and
organic molecules like methane. The
density of material was greatest at the
middle of the disk. Dust and pebble-sized
objects collided into larger and larger
clumps. Eventually these clumps became the
terrestrial planets: Mercury, Venus,
Earth, and Mars.
The terrestrial planets formed at about
the same time, in the same general region
of space, and experienced similar forces
and processes during their development.
Yet today they are different in very
fundamental ways. What did our neighbor
planets experience to result in their
vastly different atmospheres, and what are
the implications for our home planet?
Ongoing research like the MESSENGER
mission to Mercury will help to answer
this question.
Farther from the Sun, it was cool enough
that water could freeze. Tiny chunks of
ice collided, swept up gas and dust, and
became the gas giants: Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, and Neptune. Uranus and Neptune,
being farther from the dense center of the
disk, ended up smaller.
Beyond Neptune, matter got scarce, and the
objects stayed small. These distant
regions are known as the Kuiper Belt and
the Oort Cloud. Our picture of the Solar
System continues to expand as we look
deeper into these regions and find objects
like Sedna, the most distant object of the
Solar System.
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
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Posted: 12-06-07 12:38pm
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| Eiri
wrote: | The elements got to earth
when our planet formed. Our solar system
formed as a whole from the remnants of a
possible supernova or a small nebula. I'll
go find a site to explain it in more
detail for you Trust me; our
planet and the solar system and our galaxy
did NOT poof out of nowhere. They are the
products of billions of years of
development. The history of the human race
doesn't start with Earth; it starts at the
big bang!!
From NASA: h
ttp://science.hq.nasa.gov/solar_system/sci
ence/formation.html
| Quote: | Our Solar System
began as a rotating cloud of gas and dust
about 4.6 billion years ago. Something,
perhaps a shockwave from a nearby
supernove, caused that cloud to begin to
coalesce. Smaller particles clumped
together into increasingly larger objects,
with the greatest density in the center.
The spinning motion caused the cloud to
flatten into a pancake called an accretion
disk.
Over millions of years, the center of this
disk accumulated mass, and as the mass
increased, so did the temperature.
Eventually, the core reached a critical
point when it ignited – nuclear fusion
began. The Sun was born.
Meanwhile the disk continued to spin,
containing all of the gas and dust that
hadn't been sucked into the Sun. Within
this material were the building blocks of
every bit of matter we have on Earth
today, including minerals, water and
organic molecules like methane. The
density of material was greatest at the
middle of the disk. Dust and pebble-sized
objects collided into larger and larger
clumps. Eventually these clumps became the
terrestrial planets: Mercury, Venus,
Earth, and Mars.
The terrestrial planets formed at about
the same time, in the same general region
of space, and experienced similar forces
and processes during their development.
Yet today they are different in very
fundamental ways. What did our neighbor
planets experience to result in their
vastly different atmospheres, and what are
the implications for our home planet?
Ongoing research like the MESSENGER
mission to Mercury will help to answer
this question.
Farther from the Sun, it was cool enough
that water could freeze. Tiny chunks of
ice collided, swept up gas and dust, and
became the gas giants: Jupiter, Saturn,
Uranus, and Neptune. Uranus and Neptune,
being farther from the dense center of the
disk, ended up smaller.
Beyond Neptune, matter got scarce, and the
objects stayed small. These distant
regions are known as the Kuiper Belt and
the Oort Cloud. Our picture of the Solar
System continues to expand as we look
deeper into these regions and find objects
like Sedna, the most distant object of the
Solar System.
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<
span class="postbody">
ok How did
Our Solar System began as a rotating cloud
of gas and dust about 4.6 billion years
ago.
Get there?
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005
Posts: 12984
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
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Posted: 12-06-07 12:46pm
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How did it begin as a rotating ball of
gas? When the big bang occurred, tons of
materials were strewn into the expanding
space. These materials (because of the
laws of gravity) began clumping together.
Sometimes they formed new elements; other
times they just formed shapeless clouds.
It takes the influence of a secondary
explosion like the one mentioned in the
article to disturb the movement enough to
cause organized rotation - again, all of
this is explainable mathematically; it's
not just randomness.
It's not just "explosions make things
rotate" it's "The force of the explosion
causes the gravity of the neutral system
to pull the matter into a rotating pattern
and then centrifugal forces compress the
matter," etc etc. Scientists aren't just
speculating; for any of this to be taken
seriously they have to be able to prove it
with mathematical models!
That's why I trust science. They are
constantly experimenting and trying to
disprove current theories; in doing so
they often strengthen the good theories
and tear down weak ones, leaving way for
new, better theories to take their place.
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
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Posted: 12-06-07 12:49pm
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| Eiri
wrote: | How did it begin as a
rotating ball of gas? When the big bang
occurred, tons of materials were strewn
into the expanding space. These materials
(because of the laws of gravity) began
clumping together. Sometimes they formed
new elements; other times they just formed
shapeless clouds. It takes the influence
of a secondary explosion like the one
mentioned in the article to disturb the
movement enough to cause organized
rotation - again, all of this is
explainable mathematically; it's not just
randomness.
It's not just "explosions make things
rotate" it's "The force of the explosion
causes the gravity of the neutral system
to pull the matter into a rotating pattern
and then centrifugal forces compress the
matter," etc etc. Scientists aren't just
speculating; for any of this to be taken
seriously they have to be able to prove it
with mathematical models!
That's why I trust science. They are
constantly experimenting and trying to
disprove current theories; in doing so
they often strengthen the good theories
and tear down weak ones, leaving way for
new, better theories to take their
place. |
No, My question is. how did the gas and
dust get there to tumble?
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 727
Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
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Posted: 12-06-07 12:53pm
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I was misunderstood. When I said I didn't
believe we just *poof*ed into existence, I
meant I don't think God just made us. I'm
not as familiar with the Big Bang as I
used to be, but I don't not believe it.
sorry!
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 2132
Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
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Posted: 12-06-07 13:03pm
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| Eiri
wrote: | How did it begin as a
rotating ball of gas? When the big bang
occurred, tons of materials were strewn
into the expanding space. These materials
(because of the laws of gravity) began
clumping together. Sometimes they formed
new elements; other times they just formed
shapeless clouds. It takes the influence
of a secondary explosion like the one
mentioned in the article to disturb the
movement enough to cause organized
rotation - again, all of this is
explainable mathematically; it's not just
randomness.
It's not just "explosions make things
rotate" it's "The force of the explosion
causes the gravity of the neutral system
to pull the matter into a rotating pattern
and then centrifugal forces compress the
matter," etc etc. Scientists aren't just
speculating; for any of this to be taken
seriously they have to be able to prove it
with mathematical models!
That's why I trust science. They are
constantly experimenting and trying to
disprove current theories; in doing so
they often strengthen the good theories
and tear down weak ones, leaving way for
new, better theories to take their
place. |
never mind this question..
No, My question is. how did the gas and
dust get there to tumble?
you awnsered it.
But my question is way befor the big
bang.. How did "whatever" get there to
make the big bang?
That is the part I don't understand.
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