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Marianne0558

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Posted: 01-03-08 13:27pm

Induced abortion can be traced to ancient times.[64] There is evidence to suggest that, historically, pregnancies were terminated through a number of methods, including the administration of abortifacient herbs, the use of sharpened implements, the application of abdominal pressure, and other techniques.

The Hippocratic Oath, the chief statement of medical ethics for Hippocratic physicians in Ancient Greece, forbade doctors from helping to procure an abortion by pessary. Soranus, a second-century Greek physician, suggested in his work Gynaecology that women wishing to abort their pregnancies should engage in energetic exercise, energetic jumping, carrying heavy objects, and riding animals. He also prescribed a number of recipes for herbal baths, pessaries, and bloodletting, but advised against the use of sharp instruments to induce miscarriage due to the risk of organ perforation.[65] It is also believed that, in addition to using it as a contraceptive, the ancient Greeks relied upon silphium as an abortifacient. Such folk remedies, however, varied in effectiveness and were not without risk. Tansy and pennyroyal, for example, are two poisonous herbs with serious side effects that have at times been used to terminate pregnancy.
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diamondsz

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Posted: 01-05-08 13:01pm

Marianne Im going to agree with and got abit here for you

Bible and Abortion
Although some claim that the bible opposes abortion, the evidence shows otherwise. The bible says,

Then God said, "Let us make man [people] in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground." So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him. (Genesis 1:26-27)
"In his own image" cannot refer to a biological similarity; instead, it refers to the special ability of people to think and understand anything. This suggests definition of a person as an object that can think and understand and is consistent with the definition given in this paper.

According to the Bible, God instructs:

If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [has miscarriage] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury [to the woman], you are to take life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. (Exodus 21:22-25)
The death of a fetus is considered a destruction of property instead of destruction of a person since the penalty is only a fine. Damage to the woman, however, is a much worse crime since the punishment is much more severe.

In Numbers 5:11-31, if a woman committed adultery, she is to have a bitter drink that poisons her to punish her and bring miscarriage. Thus, abortions are approved in case of adultery by the woman. In biblical times, abortions were accomplished through poisoning the woman, clearly a cruel procedure. "The typical abortion methods were to poison the mother (hoping she lived while the fetus died) or to physically abuse the mother's abdomen." (Gilbert) Thus, abortions were not recommended for insubstantial reasons.

God (according to the bible) preordained some prophets before their conception. The prophets were given a miraculous ability to communicate with God. Some obtained soul even before conception. Jeremiah 1:5 states that God knew Jeremiah (a prophet) before conception. Those prophets, of course, are not the majority population. Often, their being human before birth is one of their distinctions from ordinary fetuses who become people (that is conscious) after birth.

The New Testament places strict moral rules. Nowhere does it say that abortion is wrong or that a fetus is a person. Its moral reaffirms the position that people are people through their understanding and thought.
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marvel

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Posted: 01-05-08 15:40pm

meblonde01 wrote:
Cherry picking religion is when there are things in the bible that goes against the word of god, but we choose to make it ok because it fits our life style. We pick and choose..



I know, I know, this is old, but the bible itself is a giant bushel basket of picked cherries.

Have you read the Gospel of Thomas or Mary Magdalene or Judas (not Iscariot)?

They were all rejected for various reasons... because they didn't suit what the elite believed was philosophically and morally correct, even though there were many groups who held them in considerably high regard.
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diamondsz

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Posted: 01-05-08 17:43pm

Nope but something Im going to put on my list to read next....

Yeah people like to pick and choose what is right and wrong in their book...Oh well No wonder marriages dont last long anymore hehehehe
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yodavater

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Posted: 01-06-08 16:43pm

sillyakchick wrote:
No but you can be assured that abortion in its many forms has existed for thousands of years.

And your point would be..........?
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sillyakchick

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Posted: 01-06-08 16:46pm

Yoda-I believe that debating with you is pointless, and I am not going to engage you in intellectual argument anymore because I believe one of us is at a disadvantage. Thank you for this experience of beating my head against a wall. It's been-enlightening to say the least.
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yodavater

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Posted: 01-06-08 17:12pm

sillyakchick wrote:
Yoda-I believe that debating with you is pointless, and I am not going to engage you in intellectual argument anymore because I believe one of us is at a disadvantage. .

Well, that's awfully kind of you to take such "pity" on me. Smile
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diamondsz

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Posted: 01-06-08 19:16pm

yodavater wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:
Yoda-I believe that debating with you is pointless, and I am not going to engage you in intellectual argument anymore because I believe one of us is at a disadvantage. .

Well, that's awfully kind of you to take such "pity" on me. Smile


Pity is almost a joke I dont feel sorry for you I think you are solely blind out of ignorance.....
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Jincks013

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Posted: 01-08-08 08:07am

yodavater wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:
Yoda-I believe that debating with you is pointless, and I am not going to engage you in intellectual argument anymore because I believe one of us is at a disadvantage. .

Well, that's awfully kind of you to take such "pity" on me. Smile


Of course she does. I do too I just happen to like my rock enough to keep denting my head with it.
now back to the orginal post...

I still haven't seen one single shred of proof that the chemically produced 'emotion' of fear is possible in a fetal / embryonic mind that has not developed nor the brain which the autonomic system is incomplete and does not as yet produce the requisite chemicals to produce 'fear' or the frontal lobe to feel 'pain'.

However I am sure that since heknows can't answer that yoda will produce some outdated disproven study to support this...
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Marianne0558

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Posted: 01-08-08 08:49am

Didn't that study with babies crawling over glass vs. older kids who wouldn't because they feared they would fall...

Didn't that show that younger babies didn't experience fear?
I'm confused.
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yodavater

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Posted: 01-10-08 16:50pm

diamondsz wrote:

Pity is almost a joke I dont feel sorry for you I think you are solely blind out of ignorance.....

Whatever. It's really kind of you not to dazzle me with your brilliant arguments anymore.
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diamondsz

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Posted: 01-10-08 18:08pm

yodavater wrote:
diamondsz wrote:

Pity is almost a joke I dont feel sorry for you I think you are solely blind out of ignorance.....

Whatever. It's really kind of you not to dazzle me with your brilliant arguments anymore.


It is considering English isnt my first Language I think Im doing pretty damn well....
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Jincks013

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Posted: 01-11-08 08:39am

No yoda.. we'd just like you to respond with actual up to date, current scientific evidence. Which you have failed to do so far to this point.
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yodavater

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Posted: 01-14-08 10:51am

Jincks013 wrote:
No yoda.. we'd just like you to respond with actual up to date, current scientific evidence. Which you have failed to do so far to this point.

I think I've done reasonably well on that score, but general criticisms are very easy to make, aren't they?
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Tylanas

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Posted: 01-14-08 11:11am

You posted a report that was OLDER THAN ME!! That's not "up to date", sorry.
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Jincks013

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Posted: 01-15-08 07:59am

yodavater wrote:
Jincks013 wrote:
No yoda.. we'd just like you to respond with actual up to date, current scientific evidence. Which you have failed to do so far to this point.

I think I've done reasonably well on that score, but general criticisms are very easy to make, aren't they?


With which study? The one you used that is older then I am? The disproven one written by a minister (not a medical doctor)? SO far you have produce not one shred of current up to date scientific information. Lying (again) will not help you here.
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yodavater

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Posted: 01-17-08 17:02pm

Eiri wrote:
You posted a report that was OLDER THAN ME!! That's not "up to date", sorry.

Then you should have posted one more to your liking. Some things do not change much over a decade or two, I know from having lived six of them.
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yodavater

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Posted: 01-17-08 17:05pm

Jincks013 wrote:

With which study? The one you used that is older then I am? The disproven one written by a minister (not a medical doctor)? SO far you have produce not one shred of current up to date scientific information. .

Your "proof" is not acceptable to me. And if my "proof" is not to your liking, why are you not overjoyed and proclaiming your victory? I feel no obligation to satisfy you or anyone else here, I post what I feel to be the truth and let the chips fall.
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Tylanas

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Posted: 01-17-08 17:13pm

yodavater wrote:
Eiri wrote:
You posted a report that was OLDER THAN ME!! That's not "up to date", sorry.

Then you should have posted one more to your liking. Some things do not change much over a decade or two, I know from having lived six of them.


This century alone should have shown you how much can change in sixty years. Again, if YOU are the one trying to be credible then it is YOUR responsibility to post a modern, credible source. If the modern world is moving to fast for you, then I'm sorry.
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yodavater

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Posted: 01-17-08 17:32pm

Eiri wrote:

This century alone should have shown you how much can change in sixty years. .

Technology changes, human emotions stay pretty much the same.
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