Joined: 10 Sep 2007 Posts: 1788 Location: Charleston, SC USA
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Posted: 01-03-08 13:27pm
Induced abortion can be traced to ancient
times.[64] There is evidence to suggest
that, historically, pregnancies were
terminated through a number of methods,
including the administration of
abortifacient herbs, the use of sharpened
implements, the application of abdominal
pressure, and other techniques.
The Hippocratic Oath, the chief statement
of medical ethics for Hippocratic
physicians in Ancient Greece, forbade
doctors from helping to procure an
abortion by pessary. Soranus, a
second-century Greek physician, suggested
in his work Gynaecology that women wishing
to abort their pregnancies should engage
in energetic exercise, energetic jumping,
carrying heavy objects, and riding
animals. He also prescribed a number of
recipes for herbal baths, pessaries, and
bloodletting, but advised against the use
of sharp instruments to induce miscarriage
due to the risk of organ perforation.[65]
It is also believed that, in addition to
using it as a contraceptive, the ancient
Greeks relied upon silphium as an
abortifacient. Such folk remedies,
however, varied in effectiveness and were
not without risk. Tansy and pennyroyal,
for example, are two poisonous herbs with
serious side effects that have at times
been used to terminate pregnancy.
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diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3332 Location: , Candyland-Canada
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Posted: 01-05-08 13:01pm
Marianne Im going to agree with and got
abit here for you
Bible and Abortion
Although some claim that the bible opposes
abortion, the evidence shows otherwise.
The bible says,
Then God said, "Let us make man [people]
in our image, in our likeness, and let
them rule over the fish of the sea and the
birds of the air, over the livestock, over
all the earth, and over all the creatures
that move along the ground." So God
created man in his own image, in the image
of God he created him. (Genesis 1:26-27)
"In his own image" cannot refer to a
biological similarity; instead, it refers
to the special ability of people to think
and understand anything. This suggests
definition of a person as an object that
can think and understand and is consistent
with the definition given in this paper.
According to the Bible, God instructs:
If men who are fighting hit a pregnant
woman and she gives birth prematurely [has
miscarriage] but there is no serious
injury, the offender must be fined
whatever the woman's husband demands and
the court allows. But if there is serious
injury [to the woman], you are to take
life for life, eye for eye, tooth for
tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn
for burn, wound for wound, bruise for
bruise. (Exodus 21:22-25)
The death of a fetus is considered a
destruction of property instead of
destruction of a person since the penalty
is only a fine. Damage to the woman,
however, is a much worse crime since the
punishment is much more severe.
In Numbers 5:11-31, if a woman committed
adultery, she is to have a bitter drink
that poisons her to punish her and bring
miscarriage. Thus, abortions are approved
in case of adultery by the woman. In
biblical times, abortions were
accomplished through poisoning the woman,
clearly a cruel procedure. "The typical
abortion methods were to poison the mother
(hoping she lived while the fetus died) or
to physically abuse the mother's abdomen."
(Gilbert) Thus, abortions were not
recommended for insubstantial reasons.
God (according to the bible) preordained
some prophets before their conception. The
prophets were given a miraculous ability
to communicate with God. Some obtained
soul even before conception. Jeremiah 1:5
states that God knew Jeremiah (a prophet)
before conception. Those prophets, of
course, are not the majority population.
Often, their being human before birth is
one of their distinctions from ordinary
fetuses who become people (that is
conscious) after birth.
The New Testament places strict moral
rules. Nowhere does it say that abortion
is wrong or that a fetus is a person. Its
moral reaffirms the position that people
are people through their understanding and
thought.
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marvel
Supporter
Joined: 09 Sep 2007 Posts: 1104 Location: Toronto, Ontario (but only a private message away)
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Posted: 01-05-08 15:40pm
meblonde01
wrote:
Cherry picking religion is
when there are things in the bible that
goes against the word of god, but we
choose to make it ok because it fits our
life style. We pick and
choose..
I know, I know, this is old, but the bible
itself is a giant bushel basket of picked
cherries.
Have you read the Gospel of Thomas or Mary
Magdalene or Judas (not Iscariot)?
They were all rejected for various
reasons... because they didn't suit what
the elite believed was philosophically and
morally correct, even though there were
many groups who held them in considerably
high regard.
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diamondsz
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3332 Location: , Candyland-Canada
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Posted: 01-05-08 17:43pm
Nope but something Im going to put on my
list to read next....
Yeah people like to pick and choose what
is right and wrong in their book...Oh well
No wonder marriages dont last long
anymore hehehehe
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-06-08 16:43pm
sillyakchick
wrote:
No but you can be assured
that abortion in its many forms has
existed for thousands of
years.
And your point would be..........?
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sillyakchick
Supporter
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2712
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Posted: 01-06-08 16:46pm
Yoda-I believe that debating with you is
pointless, and I am not going to engage
you in intellectual argument anymore
because I believe one of us is at a
disadvantage. Thank you for this
experience of beating my head against a
wall. It's been-enlightening to say the
least.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-06-08 17:12pm
sillyakchick
wrote:
Yoda-I believe that debating
with you is pointless, and I am not going
to engage you in intellectual argument
anymore because I believe one of us is at
a disadvantage.
.
Well, that's awfully kind of you to take
such "pity" on me.
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diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3332 Location: , Candyland-Canada
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Posted: 01-06-08 19:16pm
yodavater
wrote:
sillyakchick
wrote:
Yoda-I believe that debating
with you is pointless, and I am not going
to engage you in intellectual argument
anymore because I believe one of us is at
a disadvantage.
.
Well, that's awfully kind of you to take
such "pity" on me.
Pity is almost a joke I dont feel sorry
for you I think you are solely blind out
of ignorance.....
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Jincks013
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
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Posted: 01-08-08 08:07am
yodavater
wrote:
sillyakchick
wrote:
Yoda-I believe that debating
with you is pointless, and I am not going
to engage you in intellectual argument
anymore because I believe one of us is at
a disadvantage.
.
Well, that's awfully kind of you to take
such "pity" on me.
Of course she does. I do too I just happen
to like my rock enough to keep denting my
head with it.
now back to the orginal post...
I still haven't seen one single shred of
proof that the chemically produced
'emotion' of fear is possible in a fetal /
embryonic mind that has not developed nor
the brain which the autonomic system is
incomplete and does not as yet produce the
requisite chemicals to produce 'fear' or
the frontal lobe to feel 'pain'.
However I am sure that since heknows can't
answer that yoda will produce some
outdated disproven study to support
this...
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Marianne0558
Supporter
Joined: 10 Sep 2007 Posts: 1788 Location: Charleston, SC USA
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Posted: 01-08-08 08:49am
Didn't that study with babies crawling
over glass vs. older kids who wouldn't
because they feared they would fall...
Didn't that show that younger babies
didn't experience fear?
I'm confused.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-10-08 16:50pm
diamondsz
wrote:
Pity is almost a joke I dont feel sorry
for you I think you are solely blind out
of
ignorance.....
Whatever. It's really kind of you not to
dazzle me with your brilliant arguments
anymore.
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diamondsz
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 3332 Location: , Candyland-Canada
Thanks: 98
Thanked:159
Posted: 01-10-08 18:08pm
yodavater
wrote:
diamondsz
wrote:
Pity is almost a joke I dont feel sorry
for you I think you are solely blind out
of
ignorance.....
Whatever. It's really kind of you not to
dazzle me with your brilliant arguments
anymore.
It is considering English isnt my first
Language I think Im doing pretty damn
well....
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Jincks013
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
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Posted: 01-11-08 08:39am
No yoda.. we'd just like you to respond
with actual up to date, current scientific
evidence. Which you have failed to do so
far to this point.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-14-08 10:51am
Jincks013
wrote:
No yoda.. we'd just like you
to respond with actual up to date, current
scientific evidence. Which you have failed
to do so far to this
point.
I think I've done reasonably well on that
score, but general criticisms are very
easy to make, aren't they?
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Posted: 01-14-08 11:11am
You posted a report that was OLDER THAN
ME!! That's not "up to date", sorry.
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Jincks013
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
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Posted: 01-15-08 07:59am
yodavater
wrote:
Jincks013
wrote:
No yoda.. we'd just like you
to respond with actual up to date, current
scientific evidence. Which you have failed
to do so far to this
point.
I think I've done reasonably well on that
score, but general criticisms are very
easy to make, aren't
they?
With which study? The one you used that is
older then I am? The disproven one written
by a minister (not a medical doctor)? SO
far you have produce not one shred of
current up to date scientific information.
Lying (again) will not help you here.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-17-08 17:02pm
Eiri
wrote:
You posted a report that was
OLDER THAN ME!! That's not "up to date",
sorry.
Then you should have posted one more to
your liking. Some things do not change
much over a decade or two, I know from
having lived six of them.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-17-08 17:05pm
Jincks013
wrote:
With which study? The one you used that is
older then I am? The disproven one written
by a minister (not a medical doctor)? SO
far you have produce not one shred of
current up to date scientific information.
.
Your "proof" is not acceptable to me. And
if my "proof" is not to your liking, why
are you not overjoyed and proclaiming your
victory? I feel no obligation to satisfy
you or anyone else here, I post what I
feel to be the truth and let the chips
fall.
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Tylanas
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Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Posted: 01-17-08 17:13pm
yodavater
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
You posted a report that was
OLDER THAN ME!! That's not "up to date",
sorry.
Then you should have posted one more to
your liking. Some things do not change
much over a decade or two, I know from
having lived six of
them.
This century alone should have shown you
how much can change in sixty years. Again,
if YOU are the one trying to be credible
then it is YOUR responsibility to post a
modern, credible source. If the modern
world is moving to fast for you, then I'm
sorry.
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yodavater
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Dec 2007 Posts: 818
Posted: 01-17-08 17:32pm
Eiri
wrote:
This century alone should have shown you
how much can change in sixty years.
.
Technology changes, human emotions stay
pretty much the same.