i was just laughing because thats the kind of response you always get from some religous, i dont have to prove anything

The OP asked what it would be like if God did not exist, I explained that God is the source of all Good things, I explained that if God did not exist then I would behave in certain ways different to what I do now, people asked me if I needed God to behave "good" I explained that everyone needs God who is the source of all Good things to be Good, people said they had a sense of what is right and wrong in their "hearts" I explained that is because there is a God from whom all Good things come. You asked me

"How can animals feel it is a not-smart idea to kill their own kind? Almost NO animal in the world murders its own kind. It is programmed in them via evolution and natural selection that killing one's own species is bad, and is not going to help the species survive in the long-run. It's just logical that homicide makes no sense. Tacking on the moral value of "bad" is a purely human development. "

Animals "feel" it is not Good to kill their own kind becuase there is a source of all Good things, God, you proved it by pointing to the animals.. You said...


"Humans do. We are social animals, just like dolphins, chimps, wolves, etc. We NEED each other to survive. We need social interaction to stimulate our brains and keep them healthy. Many other animals suffer psychologicaly in isolation just as humans do. It is literally part of our blood and genes to form communnitties. "

you proved there is a common Good, and that things opposed to the common Good are Bad, you rightly pointed out t is part of our "blood" and "genes" to form Good things like communities, in other words to try to act in a Good way, the fact you have proved there is a common Good built into all of us proves there is a source of that common Good. Catholics believe the source of all Goodness is God, therefore you have proved God as catholics understand God exists.

I think if God didn't exist I would start killing everyone I didn't like since he is the only source of morals.

Oh wait, I don't believe God exists....

Look out ex-boyfriends!!

Well, now that I'm evil and amoral, I'd go out and blow up a supermarket or two, but I'm too lazy. Maybe you could do it on my behalf, Georgia? I'm sure at least one of your ex-boyfriends is shopping right now...

Don't you get it. Morals comes from within, a set of rules you follow because of your upbringing and conscience. God does not rule the planet except in your mind. If you want to believe that without God's influence, you would fall off the wagon and reek havoc worldwide, then you have no control over your conscious mind.

Your ramblings about God and religion are getting old. God does not control me and I'm certainly not going around, committing crimes against society and ignoring man 's laws. You're basically saying that without God in your life, you would violate whatever laws and tenets set up by the majority of the society.

I don't believe in God. I don't believe that there's a paradise waiting for all of us (sinners like us will be forgiven according to you). I believe in what I can see and what can be proved scientifically. I believe that we are biological organisms (highly-evolved ones to be sure) that live a certain number of years here on our planet and when we die, we become worm food or ashes. There is no consciousness after death, no angels and no pearly gates waiting to pass through.

I live my life by the golden rule, which seems to work out perfectly in our society. I am tolerant of all religions, because I recognize that many people look to religion to use as their crutch to get through the many problems that befall us all. I don't care if you have faith in an unproveable diety, but I have faith in myself.

And no matter how you phrase it or break it down, your belief system does not rule everyone's thinking. And all people who don't believe in God are not somehow inferior to you intellectually. I don't comment much on the religion threads, but your constant quoting of the bible reminds me of preaching.

"I think if God didn't exist I would start killing everyone I didn't like since he is the only source of morals.

Oh wait, I don't believe God exists....

Look out ex-boyfriends!! "

If God didnt exist you would, but even though you dont believe in him because he does exist you dont.

"Don't you get it. Morals comes from within, a set of rules you follow because of your upbringing and conscience. "

From within?

From what blood and guts and muscles and intestines...from within?

conscience....what is that, whats it look like can we disect it in biology please?

"You're basically saying that without God in your life, you would violate whatever laws and tenets set up by the majority of the society"

I am saying without God there would be no society if God did not exist non of us would behave the way we do.

"I believe in what I can see and what can be proved scientifically"

like a conscience?

"no matter how you phrase it or break it down, your belief system does not rule everyone's thinking."

Not my belief system but God's moral law writen on the hearts of mankind and effected to us consicously through our conscience.

"your constant quoting of the bible reminds me of preaching."

I try to explain the reality and then give people the bible passage that refers to it, not so much to preach but so that others can begin to understand what the bible means.

...So, what about the Egyptians, and the Greeks, and all those other pre-Biblical societies? They seemed to get along okay. (If you mention Joseph I will internet-hit you. )

I get what you're saying, Guest. I just don't agree.

"So, what about the Egyptians, and the Greeks, and all those other pre-Biblical societies? They seemed to get along okay."

god existed long before the bible, long before mankind.

Okay, look. If we're redefining God as "The concept of all that is good" then that's a completely different and NEW religion. God in Christianity is an actual BEING, as ethereal as he may be. He is an actual person-type thing that you can conceivably meet one day when you die.

However, the concept of "God is all that is good" is completely different. God as all that's good (abbreviated hereafter as GTG) is not a person or a thing you can meet; it is instead a CONCEPT. It is an ethical force that weaves everything together, much like the Force in Star Wars. I for one do not believe there is an ethical force in the universe. I believe any and all true ethics are purely human creations (and creations of any other sentient creature). Ethics are not real, they are simply concepts.

Does this mean ethics aren't important? Of course not. Humans need ethics, I believe. We need to know how to behave around each other. The thing is, these ethics derive from our base instincts, and NOT from an ethical force flowing through us.

"If we're redefining God as "The concept of all that is good" then that's a completely different and NEW religion"

actually no its not, its just your hearing true catholicism for the first time, at the mass a ritual virtually unchanged for 2000 years we say " Through whom all good things come" God is all that is Good, all that is Good comes from him.

No. IN Catholicism, God is represented as an actual being. God is a Deity. HE punishes people. HE commands invasions of Soddom and Ghemorrha. HE talks to people. God is a being.

I am talking about a completely different concept. You are talking about a boat. I am talking about the ocean.

LOL internet hit you.. I want one.. silly!!

Guest seems to think that if you don't believe EXACTLY the way he does, you don't understand the truth. (and he's rather picky, too)

That way of thinking is a little too convenient for me.

I just wanted to point out the error of "almost No animal in the world homicide its own kind". Many many animals kill their own kind (by kind I am going to assume you mean species). "Programmed in them via evolution and natural selection"? Possibly, but if so creatures in general are more likely to be programmed via evolution and natural selection to not kill it's own family members over their own kind. Which is even then a very unstable argument, since many animals do kill their own family members. However, within the animal kingdom, or anything living in general, there is competition, their own kind is part of that competition. Thus, individually via evolution and natural selection, these species would be more compelled more to be "concerned" about their own hides and survival of their genes then they would of the survival of the entire species as a whole.

Humans for instance, many of us are now complaining and highly concerned about the issues of global warming/pollution (which is supposed to destroy us one time or another), so a few have decided to stop using aerosol cans, start a bit of recycling here and there, car pool here and there, but the majority of us will continue driving our little cars despite us knowing that it is contributing to global warming, but we deem it necessary to carry on in our own lives even though it will mean our future generations will go bye bye. Meaning, we will continue to be more concerned about our own lives and family then the fate of the whole, animals are similar in that respect, they are more "concerned" with themselves and their bloodline then they are of their species. But like I said, even then, it is a weak argument because many animals kill their own family members (which is often arguable in favor of evolution).

For example, a type of blue bird, I forgot it's name, cute, kind of common. Guess what, the father purposely gives it's sons lack of attention, causing it to die, scientists explains that this is so that the father does not have to worry about competition from its own sons from future mates. Black widow spiders and many other arthropods, arachnids, insects, know why they are called black widow? Bluntly, they use the males (which are significantly smaller then the females) for sex, take their soldiers to make some babies, and then kill their "husband" and eat them for food. Another arachnid, though a different case, Wolf Spiders, second largest (I think) spiders in existence, usually dwells in forests. Very fast predators, often on the move so the mothers have to have her eggs on her back. When they are born, she will die and be eaten by her children. Lions, the famous king of the jungle, do you know how often the males kill cubs (baby lions)? They are one case of being evolutionarily more focused for their bloodlines then that of their species. Lions, like most creatures, do not commit to one mate, so oftentimes the lioness will have the offspring of other cubs while having another partner. What usually occurs then? The current partner will attempt to kill (and usually succeed since the babies aren't much of a fighter) the lioness's cubs when she isn't around and ensures that only his cubs survives. Which, after he leaves to go pimp with another lioness, the next male will try to kill the previous male's cubs when its his turn with the ex-lioness. The famous Bald Eagle, or eagles in general. One can kind of visualize these beautiful birds of prey to be symbolic of righteousness and virtue, yada yada since it is America's icon no? By the way, eagles often "commit" Cainism (sounds familiar anybody?) and kill their siblings.

I can keep on going all day about animals killing their own species. Your perspectives on evolution and natural selection seems somewhat lacking sir or ma'am, all of those killings mentioned above actually, can be argued in favor of evolution. Sorry, I see you around on debates forum writing big essays and I've never read them but I assumed you knew what you were talking about. However, I got really iffy when I saw "almost NO animals slays its own kind" and your assumption of why animals do what you falsely thought they do. So I had to speak up on behalf of my beloved animals. You have assumed much of evolution and used anthropomorphism (using human emotions to explain an animal's action) to describe why animals do the things they do. I took Animal Behavior during high school (omg it was soo cool, I got to go to the zoo every tuesday, but my research project (one of my monkeys) died! =( ), and you are thus not justified to explain animal's actions with anthropomorphic expressions.

"Animals "feel" it is not Good to kill their own kind becuase there is a source of all Good things, God, you proved it by pointing to the animals.. You said..."
????? How would you know, were you a chimp (they are highly territorial and will fight other "tribes" of chimps with use of simple weaponry such as sticks and stones [yes, they are learning how to fight with weapons now to KILL each other]or a Hercules beetle at one point (which by the way, sometimes kill one another in a fighting ritual for dominance to a mate) in your life? You are right to put quotation marks on "feel, but very wrong in assuming that they have an understanding of good or bad. They simply exist, their purpose in life is to survive, they kill to survive, they do not kill for unjustified reasons like humans do, it is not about being a good little chimp or a bad one, they aren't waiting for some chimp santa claus or a chimp God, don't state like you understand them based on what you know with human experiences, they only do what they must.

Just wanted to point out that the top statement of his/hers in quotations concerning animals and their actions are completely false.

Those killings are not murder. Murder has no benefit for the species; all of the killings you mentioned are evolutionarily advantageous in one way or another. Murder is not.

Eiri, you talking to me? I'm pretty sure I used kill and not homicide... Boo

I thought I wrote what you stated Eiri, that all the killings that occur within the species I mentioned can be argued for evolution.

I guess I sent out a bad message.

By the way, why can't I put homicide down properly without it replacing it with "not a nice act", it seems you other people can type it down.
The forum is racist!!!!!!!!!! =)

lol what a controversial subject!!!

I do find the fact that I have to cheat to type out "murder" very annoying. No, I don't get away with it just because I'm a mod!

We finally understand each other...we are each a god with limitless potential.