Are they absoultly wrong or merely wrong only in your opinion.

There is no such thing as morality without God, just different opinons on what is right and wrong, nearly all who profess to have any shred of morality and yet do not believe in God would say a part of what they believe to be right or wrong is that you should not force your morality and so it is not really an abosolute morality but merely opinion and others may hold other opinions and that does not make them any more or any less right or wrong than another.

To me if there were no God, why should I respect other people, If I exist for a short period of 80 years why not live according to get as much pleasure out of my time alive as possible even if that means raping, killing, mugging, stealingor whatever what possible reason would I have to hold that killing is wrong, we all die so what is wrong with killing someone, Rape what is wrong with rape if not a crime against the dignity of the human person granted to every human being by God.

Where do your opinions on what is right and what is wrong come from if not from God?

your parents/police/Governments/Law?

Who are these people to dictate to you what you should or should not believe, stuff them you are alive for 80 years and then its over these people want to control your lives and force their opinions on right and wrong on you, this is your life, live for yourself not for others

they come from what i feel and society

notice that god changes from society to society too

what you feel, how can you feel something is right or wrong, if there is no God?

society, who cares about society - just a bunch of busy bodies trying to tell you how to live

the affects of society are everywhere and it influences you even more then you know (yes you) so society matters....

and it is easy when i feel something is right it is right and when i think something is wrong its wrong i dont need any bodys help (god or otherwise) to form opinions.


my opinions come from life expieriences and what i have been taught throughout my life

Ah so your a slave to mind control, forced upon you unwittingly by "society"

How can you feel something is right or wrong, ok cutting your hand off you feel pain, ok thats wrong to cut your hand off butyou dont feel any pain in cutting someone elses hand off infact some people might even feel a sense of joy at cutting other peoples hands off making it right.

Again your opinions come from what you have been taught, you havent even thought about it, how opprsive it is on your life on you may want to do, silly things like getting drunk on a plane to more extreme things like raping the steward, if you want to do it why not.... because "society says its wrong" thats just wimpish

you are missing the point entirely...


so you are a horrible raping mudering person who without god would kill anybody who had something you wanted or pissed you off ? you would be a monster walking around and raping young people beccause you like how they look?
that just speaks for the kind of person you must be, acting right just because gods watching but not because you feel a need to!

"you are missing the point entirely...


so you are a horrible raping mudering person who without god would kill anybody who had something you wanted or angered you off ? you would be a monster walking around and raping young people beccause you like how they look?
that just speaks for the kind of person you must be, acting right just because gods watching but not because you feel a need to!"


Almost, I never said I was any better than others on this board, I have never proclaimed to be "holier than thou". If there were no such thing as God then the current "christian" understanding of what is right and wrong that unerpins our society would become oppresive, democracy ect would be gone everything would be "survival of the fitest" the strong arm of the law, the fear of the man who wields the Axe and the desire to become that man. But with God our currect Christian understanding of what is right and what is wrong is strenghend democracy is restored, the law becomes "to protect and to serve" the man with the power seeks to serve the people and for the christian even if we live in a non christian society we do not fear the man who wields the axe, we publically oppose such men and we are ready to die like christ in opposing them.

I would be lying if I said I did not have "fear of the lord" but that is not my motivation for being Christian it is the wisdom of God that comes from fear of the lord and also the love of liberation/freedom that Comes from Christ - "Love covers a multitude of sins" - 1 Peter 4:8

My motivation for being a Christian is experiencing the liberating love of Jesus Christ in my life, loving him for that and acting towards others as he commanded according to that same love, so yes I am no better than any on this board perhaps worse, I know myself in the light of Jesus christ, I know my sinfulness my weakness, I recognise them and turn away from them not for fear of the law or for fear of God, not because society tells me so or becuase religion tells me so but because of the love of Jesus Christ, I suffer the taughts and the ridicules of others for the love of Jesus Christ, I give up the fast cars and loose women for the love of Jesus Christ. They offer me nothing that can compaired to Christ, to freedom.

You find true freedom in Jesus Christ, without him your all slaves.

I actually recently stopped an 18 year belief in the existance of God. No matter how crazy and wild I was through my youth (I'm still in my youth), I some how kept the belief that God was real. Just a feeling. And even when I believed in his existance I hated the idea of it. I desperately wanted there to be no God because I wanted to do what I pleased and not fear eternal consequences. I was irritated at the idea of some big guy creating people only to judge them and then send them to their eternal consequence, what would be the point of that? Even when I believed God existed, it wasn't an idea I was too thrilled about. And even when I believed God existed I still did whatever I wanted, drugs, sex, among moral crimes, and instead just grew accustomed to the belief that hell is where I was going to end up.

The only thing a belief in God did was save my life. Yes, but only because there was a time when the only thing holding me back from suicide for the certainty that if I parished I was going straight to hell and it would be more horrible than my extremely abusive childhood. I knew (thought I knew) that death would bring no relief, and on that idea alone kept on living.

Even when I believed in the existance of God I didn't find life within religion and the church appealing, and found it a huge inconvenience that God was real (at the time) when I wanted to do as I pleased.

I do things others may call "bad", like stealing (from huge companies with shady policies, in which case I find supporting them by giving my money a bigger "wrong") but I think I am more "moral" than many people. I care about suffering, and I want to dedicate my life to giving, and improving the existance of people, and animals, and the earth. If I'm going to hell even though I'm living better than so many Christians I've encountered, just for not yielding to an idea of a God who I think has some unreasonable expectations, then I guess that's to bad. Because I'm a swell caring person.

I don't know what happens after we die. If I had certainty I would possibly change how I live. If I knew for sure existance was not an eternal thing, I would live differently. Unfortunately I've come to the conclustion that we are made of two different materials, physical matter, and spiritual matter. Our bodies, the physical matter, is destructable, it can die, it has an end. The spiritual matter (since I hope no one believes that you are your body) goes on, I believe. I'm sure I will go on after my body has met it's end.

Hopefully it's something super awesome. Maybe my spiritual matter will just linger in different places, and attach itseld to different things that were a part of my life. I don't know, but I am pretty sure I will keep existing long after my death.

Just dying and ending and never thinking and feeling again seems like the nicest thing to me, but I really think we keep existing in some way, and that is tiring. If I knew we just died and that was it, I do believe I would live differently. I would first of all be dead already, because of the types of choices I would make if I knew knew knew that for sure I only had this life to live.

You need belief in God to have care for other people? You are devoid of care for others without God???

Does it not come from within? Does not your heart tells you how to treat others?

Is God all that is keeping you from raping and killing people???

I cannot believe my eyes... Obviously, I do not understand what you're saying because I cannot believe you would think it would be okay to harm someone if there were no god. That's just inconceiveable to me.

no i thought i didnt understand him too but he just admitted too that i dont understand it... i am special then cause i dont believe in god but i dont do thiese thinks i am highly moral but i dont need a god to scare me in to doing what right that is just plain stupid... you are not a nice person if the fear of god is the only thing that is keeping you from harming innocent other peole!!

This whole discussion is giving me serious deja vu. Haven't we covered morality and God in another thread somewhere, or am I just slightly askew in the head?

We cover morality and God in pretty much every thread, I think.

dont other people do that anyway?

You don't know if there is a God or not. That is the point. Nobody knows. It's called faith for a reason. It's not science.

So! Things learnt from this thread: Guest is a vicious, scary psychopath, and the only thing holding him back from going on a hideous raping-and-killing spree is the existence of God and Jesus. ...I think they'd better get a restraining order on him.

I don't see how God and Jesus have stopped him from those horrendous things. He doesn't know they exist, he has faith they exist.
Just like I have faith that the milk I'm drinking is from a cow and not a goat.

"You need belief in God to have care for other people? You are devoid of care for others without God??? "

Yes I need God to have care for others.....

I would be devoid of care for others without God, but so would every human being alive.... Catholics believe in one God, from whom all good things come.

If God did not exist then nothing would be Good or Bad, Rape would be equal to buying a starving man his lunch.

"he just admitted too that i dont understand it... i am special then cause i dont believe in god but i dont do thiese thinks i am highly moral but i dont need a god to scare me in to doing what right that is just plain stupid"

Not at all, you are not moral at all, no one is that is the twist, "no one is righteous, no not one" you are not moral, your just brainwashed by society into acting a certain way because soicety deems it is "moral" to act in that way, you dont even know yourself or the extent of the capability of every human being to do evil, I do.

"dont other people do that anyway?"

Its getting more and more common as religion becomes less and less.

Ok well Buddhists don't believe in God. They are caring individuals. Hindu people don't believe in God, they're caring too.
Some atheist people are caring as well.

"I would be devoid of care for others without God, but so would every human being alive...."
-yeah i totally dont believe in the existence of god at all and i care about other people still.

"Its getting more and more common as religion becomes less and less."
- i do believe theres many millions of people that are still religous or "devout christians". religion is in no way becoming less and less. the church just says that because they need EVERYONE to believe them.