Involuntary vs. voluntary. The end result is the same so I don't see how it matters (and you don't either I think).

dont see a diff really

I agree with you both.

A zygote has the potential to become a fully developed human, an unfertilized egg or sperm alone can't achieve this status. Potential and future are vastly different terms. An abortion destroys a zygote thus taking the life off a future child that initially had the potential to become human.

and whacking off destroys potential sperm that could achieve to concieve a zygote thus preventing the life of a future child when in the end is the same result as abortion

no unwanted babies

You've asked something similar before. The answer is exactly what Birch said: the difference between voluntary and involuntary. To a pro-lifer it is the voluntary act of killing which is important.

Abortion kills an already present child with the potential to achieve life. "Whacking off" as you put it... cannot become a life. It is herein the combination of male and female that a life is created ,wanted or not, which can achieve life.

Sperm without the presence of an egg cannot achieve life and therefore is entirely different from an already present zygote which in fact can.

You yourself were once a zygote, which eventually achieved your potential to become a life.

That argument makes no sense. The egg and sperm have all that is needed to create a human being, but birth control stops that from happening. If the woman wasn't using some method of birth control, the egg and sperm would have gone on to make a human being.


An egg, sperm, and embryo are just steps in the reproductive process. They are equally important in getting from zero to baby.

AN egg and a sperm certainly can achieve life, in fact you cannot achieve life without them.



You were once an egg and a sperm! How do you not know this? The egg and sperm carry all the ingredients that make YOU, YOU! Hair color, eye color, height, everything!

exactamo!!!!!!!!

you have to admit that egg or a sperm BY THEMSELVES can't make a child. IT'S THE COMBINATION which conceives a child. until this combination is formed into a zygote-(fertilized egg) egg or sperm can't become human

An egg or sperm alone isn't a "step" in the reproductive process.... it's the COMBINATION that is a process.

You are wrong. The gametes (egg & sperm) are most certainly a step in the reproductive process. A zygote cannot become a person by itself, either. If it could, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Besides, after a couple has sex, the sperm and egg are on their way to be joined and it is only by human intervention that they do not meet.

If left alone, they would meet and produce a baby, just as an embryo left alone would produce a baby. There is no difference.

Evidently, as we now know, there is no "moment of conception." The ovum is just as alive before it is fertilized as it is after, and who could deny that sperm are alive and behave purposefully? Does not the ripe, gravid ovum, coursing its way down the fallopian tube, actively emitting chemical signals in the hope of attracting sperm, have a potential for becoming human? Does not the sperm, in their multitudes, swimming vigorously by the hour in their quest to impregnate an ovum, also have a potential to become human?

The destiny of each depends upon the other, but that does not lessen their potential for becoming a human being. Each carries half of the instructions for making a unique human being. Each are genetically unique beings and when the two become one, we begin our development as multicellular organisms. But our true birth came earlier in the process of gametogenesis when a mature egg emerged from its mature follicle, and when sperm emerged from their seminiferous tubules to await their turn--their chance for continued life, in the epididymis before completing their maturation en utero. The unfertilized ovum requires a sperm to unite with if it is to continue its life, but then the conceptus requires a womb to realize its potential for life and so on to the infant who needs love and care to survive. Dependence on a precondition does not eliminate potential nor the right to life.

http://www.alysion.org/truelife/truelife.h tml

You know you speak really well for a 16 year old 16 father

This is why the Catholic church is against masturbation.

and i think thats utterly rediculous!

If that's all it takes; a zygote, then let's just put one in a petri dish and see what happens.

So, uh, "16father", would ever marry a woman who had an abortion?

Dude, don't do it. He's jailbait.

I think it's ridiculous too, the_girlfriend. But then I think a lot of what the Catholic church believes is ridiculous.

*Looks at my two girls* Hmm.. gee.. thats such new news to me.. NOT!
Other then rehashing the 5th grade sexual ed movie did you have a point?