recently through x-rays found spondylolisthesis with L5...
haven't meet with an orthopedic yet but the openning is about 4 millimeters. the disk slipped last week (for the first time) and i am running on pain killers right now.
wondering about the right way to sleep? feeling like the pain is worse in the morning. might be due to collected spinal fuild (back expansion) during the night. however i would have hoped the back to feel better due to less pressure compaired to standing or sitting.
have read up a little bit on different non-surgery treatments. Williams is an old one but the basic idea is to lengthen the lumber curve (take pressure away). not sure i buy the theory but have also read that people place pillows under their legs at night (elevate the knees) and sleep on their backs. effectively lengthening the spine.
any medical evidence (imperial too) that this is a good idea?
Hi...new to the forum. I have Grade II spondylolisthesis at the L5/S1 level...along with severe bilateral foraminal stenosis. I often have trouble finding comfortable positions while sleeping. The best position that works for me is to sleep on my side (in a fetal position), with a pillow between my knees. Hope this helps!
I too have been told I have Spondylolisthesis. A year ago, I fell backwards on ice. Ever since then, I have trouble getting out of bed and walking. I have to sit in a chair for anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes before the pain goes away. It feels like my muscles are contracted (much like a major cramp or charlie horse) This doesn't happen during the waking hours. I have tried sleeping on either side (If I lay on one side, i have pain in one leg, if i lay on my other side the opposite leg hurts) Sometimes, the pain is in lower back and I have to roll out of bed and get on my knees, then stand up. I am so tired of the pain first thing in the morning. Thank you for asking this question. I too would like to know how I can get up in the morning and not have the cramping type pain. Laura
Well, as I stated above...I have grade 2 spondy and my pain is at its worst right when I get up in the morning, too. I have found that stretching while I'm still in bed, helps tremendously. I do a 6-7 minute stretching routine before I even attempt to get up off the bed. The very first thing I do as soon as I open up my eyes is...I bring both of my knees up to my chest and hold that position for several minutes. Then, staying in that position, I will do a gentle rocking motion back and forth and I'll also do a circling motion...all the while still holding my knees tight to my chest. This really opens up my lower back and prepares me for standing erect. After I'm fully stretched and walking around for a bit...I'll hop onto my inversion table for a few minutes to decompress my spine...this feels really good. By this time, my back is feeling pretty good...unfortunately, it's at this point that my leg pain kicks into high gear. There is only one thing that helps my nerve pain...and that one thing is exercise. As soon as I get my butt over to the gym, I know it's only a matter of time before my pain subsides.
This stretching sounds as if it works for you. Any suggestions for someone with a grade 1 2mm spondy L5/S1 but with thoracic spinal problems. My problem is made worse by trying to stretch (excruciating leg cramps on waking most mornings and need someone to press my foot towards my shin as I cannot reach it for the spasm). Any suggestions?
Hi, I'm Grade 1 spondylolisthesis and have only been diagnosed recently. I also have scoliosis, and I have a family member who has Grade 4 spondylolisthesis along with DDD...I am now having problems sleeping, and when I lie in bed I get awful "pin" like sensations up and down my thighs. Exercise and stretching makes it worse.
Can anyone please recommend a better way to sleep at night or control the pain?
The pins feelings get worse when I lie down. I have to position myself so many different ways to get comfortable. Lying on my stomach sends these pains down from my back down the back of my legs, Even lying side ways the same thing happens, then on my back just hurts my back! It really take me a while to sleep. Does anyone have the same problem?
I was wondering if anyone knows if congenital spondylolisthesis can get worse over time?
i have heard that pars defect can cause spony over time. it is good they have caught it before it has progressed too much.
that vertebrae isnt sticking out of the stack too much but i know you are suffering. i'm sure the surgeon will have some kind of solution for you.
as for sleeping i think you could experiment with a pillow placed under you pelvis to change the angle of your spine while on your side. try it while laying on different sides. when i was sleeping on a bed i could find a good position by experimenting.
hope you find the position....pete
Hi, yeah I'm glad they found mine early...unfortunately because of my family member had experience pains like mine when he was my age thats why they looked into mine. He's grade 4 now...and very late into his so they showed concern about me.
Thank you for your sleeping tips!! Will have a go with it.
Thank you for being very helpful. If you don't mind me asking what are your conditions are? I apologise if I'm being to intrusive.
i have had glandular condition where my bones grew too much, acromegaly, since age 17. bones put pressure on spinal nerves. i have stenosis, ligementum flavum, neural foramen narrowing and facet hypertrophy plus arthritis. ive had both hips replaced and 7 spine surgeries plus spinal cord stimulator. oh...i forgot the carpel tunnel surgery.
anyway best of luck in your battle and stay in touch....pete
I was recently diagnosed with grade 3/4 spondylolisthesis, completely by accident when I had a CT scan for a kidney stone. The ER doc wanted to know how I was even walking. I''d been suffering pain off and on since I fell of a horse at age 16 (I''m 38 now) and severe pain every single morning upon rising for the previous 5 years or so. It would take me 2 hours or more of stretching, walking, sitting, walking, sitting, stretching... to get to the point every morning where my back mostly didn''t hurt. A year and a half ago, I gave up sleeping in my $1600 new bed and started sleeping sitting up on the futon with my legs on the coffee table. I''ve had success sleeping upright in a recliner, as well. It''s not as restful a sleep as when lying in a bed, but it had gotten to the point where I couldn''t lie down for more than 2-3 hours at a time anyway, so a decent night''s rest was pretty much impossible. I''m grateful to finally be mostly free of the pain for now. I highly recommend that those of you who have pain when rising try sleeping upright in a recliner or other such situation.
I got a under leg pillow online and I now use it every night with another pillow under it in a pillow case. Here's a quick tip. Talk to your drs about a facet block injection to pinpoint pain to be sure thats where your pain is coming from I had my l5s1 fused and now I have had one injection l4l5 that lightend my pain but because of my hardware it is hard to get more, but now im not sure if the surgery was nessesary.
I really appreciate your advice, could you be a little more specific as to what a facet block is ? Could you guide me as to who can do this type of injection, what is it for, results, etc ... ? Basically, I'd like a bit more information about your case and how you helped yourself, and why you don't think you needed surgery in the first place.
I'm also Grade 2 and have noticed a generally bumpier ride on the GI scene for the last year or so. Hadn't previously connected the dots of back stiffness and pain with irritable bowels and was blaming the GI issue (in my mind) on a dual hernia repair in 2008. Probably owe that Doc an apology with recent Spondylolisthesis discoveries. Drink lots of water, helps the back and the GI. Still working on sleeping position theories but more of a knees up race car driver (F1 of course) stance does seem to have practical value as per Cocobutter recliner suggestions
Hi, I have a grade 1 spondylolisthesis with ruptured disc and L5 radiculopathy.
Massive problems with sleep, and trying to find a comfortable position.
If I lie on my back I find a pillow under my buttocks helps as it gives my spine a little curve. Otherwise fetal position is good, but turning from one side to the other is torture unless I do a log roll (rolling without twisting). If I lie on my side, I find it helps if I keep my legs on top of eachother as this reduces any twist.
I have found gabapentin has helped with the nerve pain, but it leaves me jittery and unable to sleep. I have solved this by combining it with a drowsy antihistamine (blue nytol) really helps.
Do you also place a pillow under your head? Ever since I've had spondylolisthesis (for 25 years), it hurts to sleep with a pillow under my head. At first, the most comfortable position was halfway on my stomach with a body pillow under my left hip and arm. Now that the spondy has progessed to a grade 3, though, sleeping on either side hurts the hip on that side and makes my leg go numb. My neck and shoulders tend to give me problems, too. For a while, I found that sleeping on my back with a pillow under my knees was the most comfortable. But, lately my left lower back is very achy and sleeping on my back makes it tingle/sting. I usually wake up on my side with the problems I already mentioned. While out of town recently, I placed pillows under my head, buttocks and knees. It was really comfortable the first night, but not the second night. I might try that here at home without the pillow under my head and see how I sleep. One of the best things for your back, though, is a good mattress. I know mine is too old and lumpy, which doesn't help.
You've had spondy for 25 year ? Could you please explain from start - how did it start, what did to try and solve the problem, how it ended up, and how it is now ? Did you start at grade 1 and it degraded with the years to grade 3 ? How do you feel now compared to grade 1, 2 ?