I think it is very good that you have had this conversation with your bf. This kind of conversation is definetly important to have cause now you are aware of how he thinks regarding this. For how he thinks I think you got yourself a man that is a keeper.

It looks like just what Tom says, I only saw your reply once.

Yeah, we had more of a conversation, I just thought that was the most important part of it, talking about the "chain reaction" which is kind of what I wanted this topic about.

I understand that tom has his own views and is entitled to them, but I also believe he holds the stereotype that many others hold like when he said
"if people weren't all disgusting and werent getting abortions bc theyre too selfish to take responsibility for their actions... " he automatically assumes that people who abort are disgusting, which is saddening, because alot of the women who abort are far from it.

I just wanted to say, I had a friend who used to think like your tom, and he would post those little poems such as "I would have loved you mommy, but you didn't love me" etc etc, and now he and his gf are expecting, and he confided in me that abortion crossed heavily on both their minds.
What I'm trying to say is, it's easy to talk and condemn until a situation arises that involves yourself. I never condemned people for having an abortion, nor would I be pretentious enough to attempt to do so or try to stop anyone from obtaining one.

but opinions are opinions, and at least tom feels he can speak his mind with you ^_^. What did he say about your feelings on the subject?

He was actually upset about how I felt about it. I've learned a whole lot from Eiri here, (actually I've learned from everyone) but for some reason, things that Eiri has said stands out to me the most, so I quoted her a lot, and he kept saying "oh man, I can't believe you think that way! I am so passionate about this subject and I can't belive you think this way"

in the end he ended up saying "it's okay, we both are entitled to our own opinions, so we might as well agree to disagree" which is true, but I don't think I'm wrong!

I used the "so if someone gets into a car wreck and gets hurt for not using a seat belt, is it ok for a doctor to refuse the patient since he knew what could happen" and he told me that we might as well stop talking about it because it was making him mad LOL sigh.

he's just used to me being 100% pro life, but since i've been here I've learned a lot and my opinions have changed. I've started thinking for myself more instead of going with what my parents taught me.

XD I don't know if I'm the best person to quote but I am flattered I probably take a slightly different look at abortion that other pro-choicers so that can be refreshing.

If you made him mad about it, that means he was hitting the wall in his head where he'd either have to go over... or just stay the same. I've hit that wall too and it's NOT fun

I think it is great you had this honest discourse with your bf. It is a hard subject to discuss, and I hope that you can talk about it more in the future.

I am sorry that he right now lacks the knowledge, empathy, and/or ability to understand why women get abortions. Maybe you could teach him? Or get him a username, sign him up! Would love to see an online debate between a couple (where no one else could post). It might help more couples in the future.

brunnette so from this conversation now you are aware that if you two get accidentally pregnant you know how he will react. Would you have an abortion against his will?

If she wanted to she'd have full right to, as his "will" does not matter.

I don't know, just the way you worded it made the feminist spikes of wrath rise on the back of my neck. Hisss.

Nightangel you are implying she needs his permission somehow? why is that? Her will is what matters here.

Jincks what I mean is that now she knows how he thinks, she now can evaluate the what if's. This is an important topic and while she don't have to agree with him they both should agree in the what if's for them. What if she gets accidentally pregnant? Will she abort? Will she abort against his will? It looks to me that if she does abort against his will, he will probably loose admiration for her and most likely leave her. So you know this is good to think about without being in the situation so you can evaluate if this is the kind of man that you want to be with. To be honest with you if my fiance ever told me that if I get accidentally pregnant he would suggest me to abort I would NOT marry him because that means he is not the kind of man I'm looking for. Jincks it looks to me that this guy Tom would feel pain if she decides to do such a thing, having a baby of him aborted and i think he deserves to be with a woman who would not subject him to such pain. See what I mean? I couldn't be careless about how the one I love feels. Particulary when you talk about what she would have inside is his baby too. Do you really call love to not care about what your partner feels?

Well personally, my bodily rights are far more important than a relationship. There will be other men. I only have ONE body.

I wouldn't abort if we got pregnant, no.

but yes, he would be very upset if I did, but I wouldn't. He actually said "I wouldn't want you to, I'd just take care of it myself"

and I said to him maybe he should come on the forum and learn from the people that I did, and he said he's already looked at both sides, that he used to debate this in class, and he knows what he's talking about, so sigh.

he's a great guy though, I dont have to worry about this subject between us because I wouldn't get an abortion (not because I'm against it, but I would be alright) I was just wondering what you guys thought about it. thanks for replying!!! keep goin!

In my last relationship, I actually wouldn't have gotten an abortion out of respect for my bf's pro-life/choice views. I wouldn't have kept it because getting an abortion would be "against his will" or some such crock, I would have kept it because I knew what kind of couple I wanted to give it to.

of course if you have no respect for the new life makes sense not to respect your bf's views too. You should definetly not get involved with a prolife man for a relationship. You will be much better with a PC.

Right on brunette. Yes he is not going to change mind for comming here. I have been here for long time and if anything I'm more prolife than I was before. Eiri can convince young inocent girls like you but definetly not me, not many in here..

That is an interesting idea. You can pick the adopting couple? I know this happens in interfamily open adoptions and step parent adoptions and have heard of this once before with someone I knew who was 18, pregnant, desperate because she was almost 23 weeks before she knew she was pregnant and couldn't get an abortion.
She went to an adoption agency and picked the parents (I was the driver for these trips) but I was under the impression this was rare.

he wrote me this email last night, gz!

I was laying in bed and i thought about the abortion thing and now i cant sleep lol, its really disgusting and upsetting to me that u could think that way. You know that I'm really open minded and I'm all for individuality, hell if we had the abortion talk and you were 100% pro-life I would have told you all the arguments for pro-choice, just to try to teach u to look at both sides of everything, but ugh. I HATE knowing you actually believe all of that ignorant crap.

I used to be pro-choice too. I used to think hey, the baby can't feel it, it's the girl's body and she doesn't want it, no harm no foul right? Wrong. Now that I've grown up and opened my eyes I can see how disgusting and horrible and amazingly selfish it is.

I'm not some ignorant 100% pro-life bible thumper, hell I suppose technically I'm pro-choice since I believe it should be legal. I understand it's a reality that people will get abortions one way or another whether or not it's legal so I would prefer them to do it in a safe controlled environment instead of on their own. But, that doesn't make it RIGHT that doesn't mean you should be OK with it. It's the PARENT'S choice to have sex without 2 forms of birth control, the child is completely 100% innocent. If everyone was a responsible enough, a good enough, person to do that, then I would be 100% pro-choice. I understand that some girls are raped and cannot deal with the emotional scarring caused by going through with such a thing. I understand that some people ARE responsible and use 2 forms of birth control and still get pregnant and simply CANNOT support a child. I understand that having a child could put certain mother's at risk.

But the fact that the parents are so disgustingly selfish as to make the CHOICE to have sex without 2 forms of birth control KNOWING the possible consequences before hand, and not giving a caca, is infuriating and unacceptable.

It's her body so that takes first priority? That doesn't add up. It was her body when she decided not to use 2 forms of birth control and it didn't take first priority then. Now that she was selfish enough to not use 2 forms of birth control and she is pregnant HER body is no longer the first priority. The baby doesn't WANT to be inside of her. The parent's made a CONSCIOUS decision to have sex without 2 forms of birth control KNOWING the possible outcome, so they need to grow the medical question up and take responsibility for their CONSCIOUSLY MADE actions. They KNEW one form of birth control isn't fool proof, or in most cases, they KNEW *no* birth control isn't safe.

The baby doesn't feel any pain so it's more acceptable? That's a huge load of crap ignorant people tell themselves to try to feel better about how disgustingly selfish they are. Is it ok to homicide people with poison as long as they don't feel pain before they die? No. Who cares if the baby feels pain. Taking their life from them is sure as hell 10000 times worse than them feeling pain, so pain shouldn't be part of the equation AT ALL. Anyone who even makes mention of the baby not feeling any pain is a fool.

You made an analogy about a car earlier. You KNOW that at any second when ur in a car you can get into an accident. You know that before you even get in. So you have to accept that and be prepared to deal with it if it arises. What do you have to have to drive? Insurance. You're PREPARED for an accident, you KNOW it could happen. You should be just as prepared when you have sex.

You said that it would be the equivalent of not treating someone who hadn't worn a seatbelt and gotten in an accident. Guess what Terra, those people who got treated were PREPARED. They had insurance, you do not get treated without insurance, so your analogy doesn't add up. Furthermore, I said I accept abortions and I think they should be legal, so I'm not sure why you brought up the issue of not being "treated". Also, getting treated for an auto accident is SAVING someone's life, whereas abortion is TAKING an innocent human being's from them.

Like I said, I'm fine with abortion being legal, but I can't stand knowing you actually AGREE with it and see nothing wrong with it. Abortion is wrong 90% of the time and it is one of the cruelest, most ignorant and selfish things in our world today. I don't know who filled your head with all of this ignorant feminist self-inflated bull crap, but's it's wrong from EVERY aspect.

I just needed to get that off my chest and I hope we can talk about it tomorrow and come to some kind of an agreement, because I HATE knowing you think like that.
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i understand where he's coming from since I used to be pro life, but I see nothing wrong with the way that I think about it. Women have right's too, if every woman who wanted an abortion DIDN'T think of how many kids there would be. he's saying about the 2 forms of birth control method, but not everyone is going to do that, so if everyone who wanted an abortion, didn't have one.. then what? look at all of those unwanted kids. he doesn't get that.

So I'd better not be buying a new hat then?