Nightangel wrote:

I perfectly understand the viewpoint of the pregnant women. That is tough yada yada..and they shouldn't have a baby they don't want yada yada..it doesn't take rocket science to understand that.

This statement right here shows your lack of empathy. You don't even have sympathy, let alone empathy.

What does empathy mean? Maybe I am the one using it incorrectly.

This is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of what I, at least, am trying to say.

The fact that you have NO IDEA why your brother uses drugs shows you cannot relate to him on an interpersonal level, or understand how he feels, at all! I have a feeling I know why he uses drugs, and I do not even know him!

I'm not Jincks but I'll answer this. If they are mentally competent, OF COURSE they should be able to! It IS their body!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Especially terminally ill patients who are suffering unspeakable agony, for which their is NO RELIEF. Why should a doctor not be allowed to assist in their suicide? They are going to die within weeks anyway!

WHY MUST THEY BE IN AGONY A MINUTE LONGER?

If you truly had empathy, you would understand what agony feels like.

Yeah, I'm tardy to the party....but still want to play.
Birch, I agree with your above statement. Most pro-lifers are, in fact, religious (usually Christian/Catholic) and that particular faith does a lot of controlling of its followers and it always has. I think this also relates to the belief that, the dumber people are, the easier they are to control. And the 'having someone think for them' part hits the nail right on the head, I think. I can't say it any better than you did without reiterating your words.



Here ya go, from dictionary.com:

"Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives."

I tihnk you were using it right. Nightangel may be able to empathize with a pregnant woman since she's been knocked up herself, but she could never empathize with a woman faced with a pregnancy who can't afford a child or who doesn't want a child and who is intending to seek abortion. Pro-lifers can only empathize with people who share their beliefs - they can't pity women who are pregnant at bad times who wish to abort because they feel the aforementioned kinds of women are whores who don't deserve to escape the burdens that clearly all women must endure (meaning parenthood), according to the Bible/God.

And as far as the originally posed question, I'm 20, graduated high school when I should have and currently getting my bachelor's in graphic design.

Do you ever read anything here? OF COURSE ITS HER/HIS right.. It is their body!! THeir Life.. not yours. Stop trying to control it.

aha well let me tell you first my brother is not using drugs anymore Birch, he died remember.

I see where you going here and sure is not what you are thinking. My brother never used to talk to me about his personal life. He was introverted boy. From little I actually wished he did talked to me. So what can you if someone don't want to talk to you? This is not lack of interperosnal skill on my part but on his part!! Even when he came out of the closet I wanted to talk to him asking how in the world that happened and so on but he changed the topic and got angered everytime I tried.

Now on drugs, there is no excuse to use drugs no matter how hard your situation is emotionally wise, supposing that something really bad going on in your life. It is of low intellegence to use drugs cause we all know how dangerous they are. Even my mom when my brother died wasn't going to use this drugs he used and this is the worst tragedy anyone could ever go through in life. My mom is smart. So how should I been empathethic? YOu mean I had to say oh poor boy, he is having a rough time so he had to use drugs.. is this what you call empathy?

Just to be clear, futureshock made those claims about your empathy here, not me.

In a related note, after having studied substance abuse I just want to say that no matter how intelligent a person is, they can still be subject to chemical dependency issues.

Having sympathy, which would be feeling bad for him like the coment "oh poor boy...", and having empathy, which would be trying to understand why he used drugs, are different.

I don't know what he was on, but I do know that I marvel at people with substance abuse issues. They can lose everything - job, family, home - and they still use. It is truly tragic, and society needs a shift in thinking from believing that this is something people can just walk away from if they want to.

I suspect in later years we will learn more about how the brain functions in regards to chemical dependency issues. I think we are in the dark ages.

Here is a link to Howard Gardner's theory of multiple intelligences, and some information as well. http://www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm# issues

Linguistic intelligence involves sensitivity to spoken and written language, the ability to learn languages, and the capacity to use language to accomplish certain goals. This intelligence includes the ability to effectively use language to express oneself rhetorically or poetically; and language as a means to remember information. Writers, poets, lawyers and speakers are among those that Howard Gardner sees as having high linguistic intelligence.

Logical-mathematical intelligence consists of the capacity to analyze problems logically, carry out mathematical operations, and investigate issues scientifically. In Howard Gardner's words, in entails the ability to detect patterns, reason deductively and think logically. This intelligence is most often associated with scientific and mathematical thinking.

Musical intelligence involves skill in the performance, composition, and appreciation of musical patterns. It encompasses the capacity to recognize and compose musical pitches, tones, and rhythms. According to Howard Gardner musical intelligence runs in an almost structural parallel to linguistic intelligence.

Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence entails the potential of using one's whole body or parts of the body to solve problems. It is the ability to use mental abilities to coordinate bodily movements. Howard Gardner sees mental and physical activity as related.

Spatial intelligence involves the potential to recognize and use the patterns of wide space and more confined areas.

Interpersonal intelligence is concerned with the capacity to understand the intentions, motivations and desires of other people. It allows people to work effectively with others. Educators, salespeople, religious and political leaders and counsellors all need a well-developed interpersonal intelligence.

Intrapersonal intelligence entails the capacity to understand oneself, to appreciate one's feelings, fears and motivations. In Howard Gardner's view it involves having an effective working model of ourselves, and to be able to use such information to regulate our lives.

No, that is not empathy. I KNEW you didn't know what it was.


So you really believe your brother chose to be gay? Why didn't he just switch to be not gay when he saw the reactions he got from you and I'm sure your parents were just as HORRIBLE to him, were they not?

It blows my mind that even after his death you cannot see what he went through, and why he turned to drugs and killed himself.

Imagine this:

You are born with a certain trait. This trait makes you hated by your own family and most of society. Everyday of your life is filled with self-loathing.
The people you love find you disgusting, immoral, sinful, and they tell you that because of this trait you were born with, you are going to hell.

You would do anything in the world to not have this trait. Finally when you realize there is nothing you can do about the way you were born, and the way you were born makes you an object of disgust and hatred, you decide you have no choice but to kill yourself.

CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? He was self-medicating by using the drugs so that he could escape his unbelievably horrible and CRUEL existence for a while. Finally he probably gave up.

Do you realize your views contribute to the way he felt, and the way you make others feel who are in the same predicament RIGHT NOW?

You are very very wrong. He used drugs for the same reason non-homosexuals use drugs. Stupidity. Let me tell you this too you don't know my brother. You don't have a clue how he was and the things he had the guts to do. You think that all gays are nice and you don't have a clue how mean they can get to be. But again I don't need to prove anything to you. What I can tell you is that my brother and may he be resting in peace sure did pay in life for the things he did. What you do in life it comes right back at you. That's why I try to be good.

Futureshock, you certainly don't know why this person you never met used drugs or made choices in his life. You are out of line making such enormous assumptions. Not to mention drawing some kind of parallel between homosexuality, drug use, and blaming family for their choices. Is this a guilt trip you are trying to send nightangel on? Is that effective? Is that tolerant, empathetic, etc?

Nightangel comes from a different culture, and has a different background than yours. You need to respect that before making these kind of comments. It is certainly not very empathetic. Or is empathy one sided? Are you only empathetic if someone is on the same side of the fence as you?



While drug use may be stupid, that doesn't mean the people who use them are stupid.

I cannot stress enough the complexity surrounding chemical dependency. It is not always matter of intelligence and/or choice.

I am sorry about your brother.

Birch, what kind of cultural background could be so different? How could a person who has experienced a gay family member's torment STILL THINK IT'S A CHOICE?

She's from Puerto Rico I think...

Puerto rico has catholisism as its primary religious affliation; Nightangels' family is catholic; the church teaches homosexuality is a sin and abhorrant in the eyes of god so you tell me, Birch, to a homosexual young man this would not be a motivating factor?
it seems to me future isn't the only one making enormous assumptions.

I can see NA's point that drug use is simply stupid and her brother could have made better choices and can sympathize with her families loss; if homosexuality played a part in his death then one should look to the enoromous pressures that young man was under; he was a grey wolf in a white coated world and even you ought to know peer and social pressure often play a part in suicide.

Don't worry, I got yelled at over a year ago for saying the same thing you're saying about nightangel's family driving their son to drugs.

My brother was having a happy life in the US when he died. He was doing whatever he wanted to do which for one was a lot of partying to the point he would miss work and such. He wasn't depressed for being gay I can tell you that for sure.

My family is catholic but not my dad. My dad is agnostic like Birch, he don't believe in the church at all and he is homophobic. Homosexuality is just disgusting to him like it is for so many people with no religion. I too find homosexuality disgusting and it's not because I'm catholic. But mind you I'm friendly with gays and I treat them with respect like it should be.

If he was using drugs, he was not living a happy life.

A life of excess is not a happy life. He was sending very clear messages that he needed help, but (my interpretation) he didn't or couldn't ask his family.

Then if if he wasn't happy he sure did hide real well as I talked to him often online. He never admitted he had a drug problem thought. If anything he claimed he used them occasionally and therefore that wasn't a drug addiction problem. So nothing you can do about it eiri. He was an adult.

If you were empathetic yourself, you could probably work this out.



I don't know why he used drugs. No one did. Apparently his own sister didn't know.

How did I make an assumption when I said that no one knows why he used drugs and that's apparently a fact?

It may have been social pressures, it may have been homosexuality, it may have been a hormonal kink in his brain, it may have simply been a 'try it once' and got hooked thing.
No one knows, and futureshocks comments seem nothing short of trying to give Nightangel a ticket on a guilt trip. That is not empathetic behavior, that's jumping on the bandwagon.

Chemical dependency, and suicide are not simple to wrap up concepts. Your comment that her brother "could have made better choices" makes me think that you may not be aware of the complexities surrounding this issue. Sometimes it's just not a choice.