Domestic Violence Towards Children Posted: 09-07-07 16:33pm
In several recent threads many of you have
posted your disgust at adults striking
other adults; namely significant others in
physical arguments.
There have been some great comments about
how this is unacceptable.
So how far do your opinions go?
Let's talk about hitting children...
Is it ever right?
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young Girl
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Posted: 09-07-07 16:48pm
i will never spank my child
i dont know i just dont think it solves
anything
i was never spanked as a kid
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Georgia59
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Posted: 09-07-07 16:53pm
I was spanked.
I came out ok.
I am not going to try and plan on spanking
my kids. We'll see how that goes or if I
change my mind by the time I actually have
kids.
But otherwise, to answer the question,
yes! Hit kids all you want!
(I hope that was obvious sarcasm)
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young Girl
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Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 13932 Location: everythings better in, texas USA
Posted: 09-07-07 17:01pm
Georgia59
wrote:
I was spanked.
I came out ok.
I am not going to try and plan on spanking
my kids. We'll see how that goes or if I
change my mind by the time I actually have
kids.
But otherwise, to answer the question,
yes! Hit kids all you want!
(I hope that was obvious
sarcasm)
lol yeah its hard to say how you are going
to deal with your kids
when my time comes ill figure something
out lol
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Georgia59
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Posted: 09-07-07 17:07pm
Honestly, in my nice, idealistic,
child-development studying mind I think
it's wrong and hurts kids more than it
helps. So I don't want to do it.
however- like I said, I was spanked. In
fact, I'm pretty sure my parents often
spanked me because they were angry and I
suspect that it had nothing to do with
punishing me.
But I came out just fine. I'm really close
to my parents. I love them. I think
they're doing a great job raising my
little brothers. I would trust them with
my children. If I decided spanking was not
the way to go, I would tell them and trust
that they wouldn't spank my children.
So I don't think it's great, but I don't
think it's detrimental either.
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Tylanas
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I've Already Said I All Can Say On This Issue. Posted: 09-07-07 17:08pm
Here is a collection of every post I have
made on this issue. I didn't edit out
anything to make myself sound "better". I
left in the fact that humiliation is
needed for some children. I'm not trying
to impress anyone with this. I've simply
said all I can say. It is a touchy issue
for me, and one I don't like getting in
to. It makes me angry.
Eiri
wrote:
I agree that under special
circumstances, spanking is acceptable.
I was spanked... once or twice as a child,
and I honestly believe I deserved it. I
don't remember what I did, but boy, was it
bad, and I knew spanking was the
punishment! I did it anyway... and my
parents followed through on their threat.
I think that is the key. If you say you're
gonna do it, then the very first time the
child warrants a spanking, do it. Then the
child knows you're serious about it, and
they'll take all other "lesser"
punishments way more seriously too.
They'll behave because they know that if
they don't, the parent isn't going to wuss
out: they will deliver the punishment,
whether it's sitting in the corner or
having the car pulled over, etc.
Also, you need a hefty dose of "this is
why I am punishing you". Totally. A child
who understands is a child who will learn
from their
mistakes.
Eiri
wrote:
But for some reason, I turned out a
complete pacifist, despite being spanked a
total of twice my entire youth.
Spanking is the ultimate punishment. Pain
works. No, it's not "nice". But a well
behaved child who knows what they did to
deserve the punishment is going to be a
well behaved, well adjusted child, as
opposed to a child who knows they can get
away with anything and all that's going to
happen is that they have to sit in a
corner.
Eiri
wrote:
Humiliation is what is
needed for some children to behave. No,
it's not "Nice", but some kids just do not
respond to a soft touch. Are you going to
let that child walk all over you? Some
children just do not respond to "sit in
the corner" and they will disobey because
they know that there is no other
punishment that can happen to them.
They've seen the worst, and it is sitting
in a chair. So what? It's not a strong
enough punishment for them. They need
something harsher.
Never spank in public. It is between the
parent and the child. It reaffirms the
parent as the one in charge. Yes, the
parent is bigger, and that means the child
needs to listen to them. If they don't,
there are consequences.
Mistakes and breaking the rules later in
life can result in punishment much worse
than a spank. Learning that being
disobedient can hurt you is an important
lesson.
For some reason, I realized even at the
young age I was spanked, that what I had
done was completely inexcusable. if I was
being spanked for it, then it was
something I never, ever should have done
and never, ever should do again, unless
I'm capable of handling the
consequences.
Eiri
wrote:
I think what I keep hearing
from the anti-spankers is a lack of
understanding as to what situations the
child is spanked in.
As someone else pointed out, spanking is
not for when a child simply misbehaves, or
just acts out, or only throws their toys
across the room.
Spanking is for when the child has done
something severely wrong that they already
knew they should not have done. If the
child bites another child and draws blood
for instance. Or, in the other case, when
the child nearly ran into the street and
almost got run over. Beating up an animal
is a spankable offense in my opinion.
Again, spanking is used as punishment only
when the "crime" was severe, and the child
already knew they should not have been
doing it.
Spanking when the child does something
they didn't know was bad isn't as
effective, such as if it's the first time
the child has ever bit someone and you
never actually specified that biting is
bad. Naughty chair is fine in that case.
But once you have told them that biting is
very very bad, and that they should never
bite someone again, then if they do it
again, spank them. Strong punishment for a
severe offense. What are you going to do?
Just coddle the child? I'm sorry but if a
child knew they could get away with
physically harming another child and
wouldn't suffer physical pain themselves,
they'd do it.
Eiri
wrote:
I guess as a child I
understood the concept that the person
making the rules is the person who has the
right to punish me, and I don't know... I
just never felt abused when I was spanked.
I was so young too, I don't really even
remember it happening. But the fear of
"obey parents" was firmly etched in my
brain. I also knew that I was being
spanked because I had failed to follow
very important rules, and thus I was
disappointing my parents, and I deserved
punishment. Disappointing my parents is
one of my greatest fears to this day.
I guess the point is... if the child
understand and knows they deserve the
spanking, it works. I guess if the child
doesn't understand that, then they may
view it as
abuse.
Eiri
wrote:
I respect my parents
"despite" the fact that they spanked me. I
never thought less of them or hated them
for doing it. I never thought they were
weak or mean or anything like that. In
fact, spanking made me respect them as
authority figures.
I think kids do need to be a little bit
fearful of their parents. I loved them to
death and ran to them whenever I was
scared or had a boo boo or a bad dream...
But I also knew not to disobey. I knew why
I shouldn't disobey: doing bad things had
consequences like a broken lamp, or I
could fall and get hurt, or get run over
and die. if I did something bad like that,
I deserved punishment. If it's a severe
no-no, then spanking is in order. I was
only ever spanked twice.
Spanking was not done to "solve" anything.
It was punishment, plain and simple. It
was not meant to cause permanent damage to
me and it never did. My bottom stung for a
few minutes and that was that. I am not
psychologically scarred. I am not violent.
Spanking as a punishment and actual
"hitting" were two very different things,
and actual hitting was extremely against
the rules. I have difficulty hitting
people to this day because it was
ingrained into my head to never hit. In my
brain, spanking does not equal hitting.
Maybe you would spank your child out of
frustration or a lack of control, but my
parents certainly didn't. Perhaps spanking
is a form of punishment that only some
parents are capable of using properly.
Spanking is not physical abuse. I never
once bruised from it and I never had a
long-term mark from it. I was never afraid
to sit down because my bottom was in
severe pain. Never. My parents spanked me,
they didn't hurt me. There's a
difference.
My parents spanked me when I ignored the
rules and consequences that I had already
been informed of. I don't remember why I
got spanked either time, but I do know
from their parenting style that I had been
informed of why I should not do the bad
activity, why it was bad, what would
happen if I did it (such as getting run
over), and the punishment if I did do it.
I didn't do these bad things obliviously.
I can understand spanking being bad if a
parent spanks a child that unknowingly did
something wrong, or did something wrong
without being told the consequences.
I was, as I said, taught that hitting was
very very wrong. Spanking and hitting are
two different things. When you hit
someone, you intend harm, and that's it.
When a good parent spanks, he is not
intending to cause the child harm. I guess
it's something that not every person can
comprehend. I was spanked when I refused
to learn. When I purpously did something
against the rules that I knew was very,
very bad. What, should we not jail killers
now? Jail is punishment. So is spanking.
It's very efficient punishment that gets
through to the child. You should not have
to spank often if you are a good parent.
If you're spanking a lot, then you're
doing something wrong. Either you're
spanking for trivial things (which is
wrong), or your child has a behavioral
problem that needs to be dealt with
professionally.
I'm sorry, but if I, a child, have been
informed of something I shouldn't do, and
I have been told why not to do it, and why
it's bad, and what will happen if I do it,
then I am the problem. It was my choice to
disobey. It's not the truck's fault that I
ran out into traffic. You can't blame the
swimming pool because I chose to run
alongside it and slipped and fell in it.
I was taught to behave. That doesn't mean
I was always an angel. I still did stupid
stuff I shouldn't have done, even though I
knew it was bad and I knew why it was
bad.
I wasn't "scared" to do the bad activity
while my parents were around because I
knew I'd get spanked. I was scared to do
the activity because of the other
consequences. Like, I don't know... dying.
Falling off a building. Getting kidnapped.
Being poisoned to death. Drowning... there
are a lot more reasons to be scared to do
something than having my dad smack my
butt.
I never repeated the activities I got
spanked for. Ever. I think one of them was
for biting. I never bit anyone ever
again.
If you have an older child who is
disobeying severely enough that you would
spank a younger child for it, then the
older child has some deeper issue that
needs professional
help.
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AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 09-07-07 17:49pm
My child is too young to really understand
discipline, so I can't say for sure what
we'll do with her. But I'm very much planning
not to spank her. We're going to try the
time-out method (sitting still in one
place for as many minutes as the child's
age in years, if the child moves the clock
resets).
I might resort to a light hand-smack if
she does something dangerous like reaches
for the stove, but not hard enough to hurt
her - just to get her attention so she'll
be listening when I say "NO, that is HOT".
But again, she's not old enough, so I
can't say for sure what we'll end up
doing.
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Birch
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Posted: 09-07-07 20:05pm
How very interesting that everyone
instantly translated "hitting kids" into
"spanking" yet I had a hard time getting
this across in the Parent Debate forum a
few months ago.
How also interesting that those adamantly
opposed to domestic violence between
adults think that, 'well, I don't intend
to do this, but it might happen and it'll
be okay'.
Eiri, why does this subject bug you so
much? Perhaps because your incongruency
in beliefs are not reconciled, or you
don't like me showing you how what your
parents did to you, spanking you, was
wrong and actually harmful behavior? Many
children have a hard time coming to grips
with the fact that their godlike parents
made mistakes. You can forgive your
parents, especially if they did not know
better, but that does not give anyone the
green light now that they know better to
go ahead and smack their kids.
Eiri, I hope that you understand I do not
say these things in spite or sarcasm or
anything; just pure sincerity and I hope
you don't take offense.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-07-07 21:48pm
No, I firmly believe spanking is fine, and
so it PISSES ME OFF when people are
stupid and assume my parents were brutish
retards who physically abused
me.
That's what pisses me off.
My parents HAVE made mistakes; for god's
sake my mother had unprotected sex and
became pregnant and had to abort, and my
dad did a few drugs in his time. So did my
mother for that matter.
But as far as parenting goes, I could not
have asked for better parents. Yes, I
idolize them. I love them. And I will
carry on in their image because I believe
it was right to spank.
Let me put this in small words so you will
understand.
Proper Spanking DOES NOT EQUAL
SMACKING/BEATING/SLAPPING OR ABUSE.
I was NEVER hit on my face, arm, torso,
leg, shoulder, etc. I was never smacked
upside the head or slapped across the
face. I was spanked. A hand hit my clothed
butt. And I deserved it.
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HcoBrunette06
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Posted: 09-07-07 23:08pm
same.
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Birch
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Posted: 09-08-07 00:07am
Eiri
wrote:
No, I firmly believe
spanking is fine, and so it PISSES ME
OFF when people are stupid and assume my
parents were brutish retards who
physically abused me.
That's what pisses me off.
My parents HAVE made mistakes; for god's
sake my mother had unprotected sex and
became pregnant and had to abort, and my
dad did a few drugs in his time. So did my
mother for that matter.
But as far as parenting goes, I could not
have asked for better parents. Yes, I
idolize them. I love them. And I will
carry on in their image because I believe
it was right to spank.
Let me put this in small words so you will
understand.
Proper Spanking DOES NOT EQUAL
SMACKING/BEATING/SLAPPING OR ABUSE.
I was NEVER hit on my face, arm, torso,
leg, shoulder, etc. I was never smacked
upside the head or slapped across the
face. I was spanked. A hand hit my clothed
butt. And I deserved
it.
No reason to be so defensive...geesh. I
didn't insinuate that your parents were
brutes who beat you. Just people who made
mistakes and hit you. You jumped on the
spanking = hitting bandwagon like everyone
else. Obviously, you're very touchy about
the subject so something about it gets
your goat and I didn't know why.
Let me put this in small words so you will
understand:
NO REASON TO BE SO DEFENSIVE. I WAS JUST
ASKING A QUESTION.
I made it clear that I didn't mean
anything nasty and was sincerely trying to
understand why you were so touchy about
this subject.
Why are you so nasty when someone doesn't
understand your point of view? Is that
how you treat people in real life?
P.S. Your comment, "it is right to spank"
is the same thing as "it is right to hit"
by your own admission. I still cannot get
a clear answer why hitting kids is bloody
fine but hitting adults is absolutely out
of the question. Are you going to spank
your spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend if they
get out of line? Why not, eh?
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Birch
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Posted: 09-08-07 00:08am
HcoBrunette06
wrote:
same.
Do you spank your bf when gets out of
line?
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Birch
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Birch Is Prepared For a Noose Posted: 09-08-07 00:23am
Here's what I think:
People think it's okay to spank/hit their
kids because:
A. Kids can't hit you back
B. They are small and aren't viewed as
people in the same capacity as an adult
is
C. A lot of leeway is given because of
the frustration felt by parents and
therefore they are forgiven for striking
their children (I have no doubt parents
get upset at their kids and find the
easiest recourse is to strike out at
them)
D. There is this odd forgiveness given to
people when they hit members of their own
family, versus other adults or children
not related to them
E. Their parents hit them, and they fail
to recognize their parent's shortcomings,
so they justify their actions with "my
parents did it and I'm fine so it must be
okay"
F. They fail to understand the emotional
damage done to children when they are hit
by someone who loves them
G. They ignore all common sense that says
"hitting people is wrong" by classifying
children as "not people".
Don't hang me for stating my
opinions...obviously I have issues
with hitting kids.
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agathe
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 10 Aug 2007 Posts: 74
Posted: 09-08-07 00:35am
You all should know by now that if this
world wants you to smack your child around
you will do so and then fully understand
why others have done it. You see,
smacking your children is a magical
occurrence that happens to you, not the
other way around. How many times has
someone said, especially when they are
young that "I would never do that" or
"that will never happen to me". My point
is the more that painful and unjust things
happen to you and depending on just how
great the pain and injustice is the more
capable you will be of doing crazy
horrible crap.
I could be wrong though, hmmmm.
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Birch
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Posted: 09-08-07 01:01am
agathe
wrote:
You all should know by now
that if this world wants you to smack your
child around you will do so and then fully
understand why others have done it. You
see, smacking your children is a magical
occurrence that happens to you, not the
other way around. How many times has
someone said, especially when they are
young that "I would never do that" or
"that will never happen to me". My point
is the more that painful and unjust things
happen to you and depending on just how
great the pain and injustice is the more
capable you will be of doing crazy
horrible crap.
I could be wrong though,
hmmmm.
Agathe, you are my new hero. I understand
you completely and absolutely
agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-08-07 09:23am
Birch
wrote:
Eiri
wrote:
No, I firmly believe
spanking is fine, and so it PISSES ME
OFF when people are stupid and assume my
parents were brutish retards who
physically abused me.
That's what pisses me off.
My parents HAVE made mistakes; for god's
sake my mother had unprotected sex and
became pregnant and had to abort, and my
dad did a few drugs in his time. So did my
mother for that matter.
But as far as parenting goes, I could not
have asked for better parents. Yes, I
idolize them. I love them. And I will
carry on in their image because I believe
it was right to spank.
Let me put this in small words so you will
understand.
Proper Spanking DOES NOT EQUAL
SMACKING/BEATING/SLAPPING OR ABUSE.
I was NEVER hit on my face, arm, torso,
leg, shoulder, etc. I was never smacked
upside the head or slapped across the
face. I was spanked. A hand hit my clothed
butt. And I deserved
it.
No reason to be so defensive...geesh. I
didn't insinuate that your parents were
brutes who beat you. Just people who made
mistakes and hit you. You jumped on the
spanking = hitting bandwagon like everyone
else. Obviously, you're very touchy about
the subject so something about it gets
your goat and I didn't know why.
Let me put this in small words so you will
understand:
NO REASON TO BE SO DEFENSIVE. I WAS JUST
ASKING A QUESTION.
I made it clear that I didn't mean
anything nasty and was sincerely trying to
understand why you were so touchy about
this subject.
Why are you so nasty when someone doesn't
understand your point of view? Is that
how you treat people in real life?
P.S. Your comment, "it is right to spank"
is the same thing as "it is right to hit"
by your own admission. I still cannot get
a clear answer why hitting kids is bloody
fine but hitting adults is absolutely out
of the question. Are you going to spank
your spouse/boyfriend/girlfriend if they
get out of line? Why not,
eh?
It's an issue I defend because saying
spanking is bad is directly insulting my
parents! Maybe you'll think about that
next time before telling someone "You need
to forgive your parents for making
mistakes and (implied) ABUSING YOU as a
child."
Why is spanking okay?
Because spanking is not hitting.
Just like abortion is not murder.
And a fetus is not a born baby.
How in the world can you make the
distinction in the abortion debate, but
here, you're as close-minded as a
pro-lifer? I don't get it.
I said I didn't want to debate this and
I'm not going to.
I'm sorry you do not understand spanking,
what it is, how it works, and how it is
DIFFERENT from hitting! But I'm never
going to be able to explain it to you.
You're set in your mind that spanking =
abuse just like pro-lifers think that
abortion = murder. I can't change that.
So I'm going to ask this of you: Stop
insulting my parents by insinuating I was
abused as a child. Stop saying I was hit,
because I wasn't.
YOU are the one saying "Why is it okay to
spank a child but not hit an adult" so YOU
are the one who made the direct
corrolation between hitting and spanking.
YOU implied it was abuse, and equivalent
to smacking/slapping/hitting/punching.
I'm done. I have nothing else to say. You
know my opinion on spanking and it's not
going to change. I hope I never have to
spank my child, just like most women hope
they never have to abort and fathers hope
their son never goes to jail. But if the
son breaks the law as an adult, he should
go to jail. If a woman becomes unwantedly
pregnant, she will abort. And if my child
does something VERY bad that s/he knows is
against the rules for very good reasons, I
will spank them.
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Tylanas
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Posted: 09-08-07 09:44am
The very title of this topic is
misleading.
Yes, ACTUAL domestic violence towards
children is horrible. Actually hitting
them, punching/smacking/slapping/kicking
etc IS bad.
Spanking is none of the above when done
properly.
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Georgia59
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Posted: 09-08-07 10:08am
there's a big difference between hitting
your children out of anger and spanking
them with the intention of punishing
them.
Perhaps, yes, spanking is a socially
accepted form of abuse. I say that with a
lot of caution. But honestly, people have
been spanked for decades. And most people
who have been spanked have none of the
after effects from abuse.
Birch, I am assuming you were never
spanked. Do you know someone who was and
was totally hurt by it? I don't know
anyone who is as adamantly opposed to it
as you are. I'm just wondering why.
Like I said, in theory, I understand why
it could be a bad thing and why spanking
isn't the best form of punishment. So I
won't plan on doing it. But I really don't
think it's detrimental to children in any
way unless it's done with the intention of
hurting.
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Birch
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Posted: 09-08-07 10:31am
A natural redhead indeed.
This is what Alice Miller and other
psychologists talk about. People become
illogical and irrational when the mere
mention that their parents hit them comes
up. And they justify their parent's
actions by repeating them with their own
children and believing that "I deserved
it".
The ad hominem attacks are really beneath
you, too.
I am sorry you are unable to distance
yourself from your own experiences and
discuss this calmly and rationally as was
my intent. I guess that's the way the
cookie crumbles.
Anyone else, can you explain how spanking
is not hitting? And then, can you explain
how it is not domestic violence? I would
love to read what people feel on it.
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Birch
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Posted: 09-08-07 10:42am
Georgia59
wrote:
there's a big difference
between hitting your children out of anger
and spanking them with the intention of
punishing
them.
Could you please expound s'more?
Georgia59
wrote:
Perhaps, yes, spanking is a
socially accepted form of abuse. I say
that with a lot of caution. But honestly,
people have been spanked for decades. And
most people who have been spanked have
none of the after effects from abuse.
I agree with your first sentence here.
I would encourage you to consider that
since spanking may be a socially accepted
form of abuse, and has gone on for
decades, that we may not be aware of the
damage that it causes individuals simply
because it isn't considered to be
abusive.
We are only beginnning to understand the
longterm effects of food additives. We've
been universally eating them for decades,
so they can't be harmful, right?
Georgia59
wrote:
Birch, I am assuming you
were never spanked. Do you know someone
who was and was totally hurt by it? I
don't know anyone who is as adamantly
opposed to it as you are. I'm just
wondering
why.
That is very interesting you would assume
that. Actually, I was hit often with all
kinds of implements by abusive parents,
and I was also emotionally
abused/manipulated/humiliated/controlled/y
ou name it. I have not had contact with
my parents for years. I understand that my
experiences may be considered 'extreme' by
others who were occasionally hit on their
bottoms. Anyways, as a result of my
experiences i began to read and study what
abuse is, what is does, etc. Much of what
I've read on spanking is
unpopular...perhaps because of the
psychological blocks people have regarding
their godlike parents. You study
psychology, right? What do you think?
Georgia59
wrote:
Like I said, in theory, I
understand why it could be a bad thing and
why spanking isn't the best form of
punishment. So I won't plan on doing it.
But I really don't think it's detrimental
to children in any way unless it's done
with the intention of
hurting.
Could you please explain s'more on the
intent versus the effect?
