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Q: Gays In the Bathrooms
asked by: sillyakchick on September 4th, 2007
Extremely eHealthy
So recently a senator went to a Minneapolis airport bathroom where it was told that he would be able to solicit a man for gay sex. So he went there are did so, but the man he solicited was actually an undercover policeman. This senator claims that he is not gay, by the way. He also claims that it was just an isolated incident.

If it was an isolated incident, how did he know enough to go there to a particular bathroom in the Minneapolis airport where the local authorities knew enough about the fact that this type of activity had been going on?

( how would you like to have to be THAT cop? Rolling Eyes )

So, alhtough public lewdness is in deed a crime, i don't place as much importance on this as, say, lying to the country to get involved in an oil war. But this man is going to be publicly humiliated by his republican bretheren and run out of town.

SO here's a few points to consider:

1. WHY are men having sex in airport bathrooms with one another and then living a life outside that campaigns against the rights of homosexuals?

2. WHY is his crime worse than the other very obvious abuses of congressional, senatorial, and presedential power which are being orchestrated and carried out DAILY?

3. HOW can this man claim now to not be gay?

Anyone remember the case of James Dobson? Ultra right wing conservaitive evangelical church leader of the focus on the family movement in colorado springs, CO? He not only requested a male prostitute to come to his home to rpovide him with his services, he also requested that he bring along a little gift package of crystal meth. Funny thing, he's still welcomed by that same church which condemns homosexual behavior. You know why? He REPENTED AND SAID, OK I AM CURED! I AINT GAY NO MORE!

Is this OK? Can he have been "cured"?

OPinions?
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Replies(21)
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AyaMiyaki
replied on September 4th, 2007
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I don't understand sex in a public restroom at all. That's beyond disgusting, whether you're gay or straight. Even if they're spotless, they're crawling with germs from who knows how many dozens (hundreds?) of people. Just, eww.

As far as him claiming not to be gay, I think a number of men are so programmed to think that gay = bad, that they have to justify it to themselves somehow. "I'm not gay, it's just sex." "If it's just oral, it's not really sex, which means it isn't really gay." "I'm not in love with the guy, I just like sex, so that means I'm not gay." And so on. I'm not sure about this senator though... maybe he's just trying to save face by lying.

I personally don't feel there's anything wrong with homosexuality. I just wish we lived in a more tolerant world where people wouldn't have to lie to themselves and others.
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sillyakchick
replied on September 4th, 2007
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I think it's unacceptance is why it happens in places like restrooms and parks. there's a really interesting book, called the Tea Room Trade (I can't remeber who wrote it ) and it's not new, it's pretty old but it talks about the social implications of a generally homophobic society. Pretty good reading.
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Birch
replied on September 4th, 2007
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I don't really understand what the crime is...what is he charged with? I mean, he can't be charged with public indecency b/c he didn't do anything yet, right?

I'm not really on the up and up with this mess.

To me, this stuff is entrapment, thought crime, and then on top of it, what consenting adults do with their sexuality isn't my concern (unless it's in a public bathroom and I walk in on it. Then I reserve the right to giggle and make loud comments.)
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AyaMiyaki
replied on September 4th, 2007
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That's not something I'd want my young son to walk in on, though. Neutral I kind of wish they'd get a hotel room or jump into a car with tinted windows, like other frisky horny people do. What's sexy about a filthy restroom? Neutral (apart from voyeurism I guess...)
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Rodge
replied on September 5th, 2007
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Is this a 'cottaging' situation, or was there supposed to be actual sex involved? (This thread title makes me laugh so hard for some reason, by the way. Laughing )

To answer your questions:

1) Repression and self-hatred. Eventually they temporarily snap from living a lie and go have anonymous gay sex in public toilets. Then they go right back to repressing it and hating themselves for their deviant urges. And the cycle goes on.

2) EW ICKY GAY PEOPLE OH NO THEY'RE HAVING SEX ON TOP OF THE FLAG AMERICA IS DOOMED OH GOD A NUCLEAR FAMILY JUST BURST INTO FLAMES

3) Panic, repression and self-hatred. Or maybe he's bi.

Being gay isn't something that can be cured. It'd be like having therapy to destroy your love of classic cars and rock music- it's a characteristic, not a disease. As long as you're healthy and happy and don't hurt the people around you, why get rid of one of the things that make you what you are? Oh, wait. The guy in the dress said so.
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Georgia59
replied on September 5th, 2007
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Would there have been so much outrage if he was meeting a woman in the bathroom for some nookie?
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Crazeh_Sunshine
replied on September 5th, 2007
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1. Why? I have no idea, really. Just as others have said, public restrooms are disgusting... I don't even like stepping into one, whether I'm using it or not. How anyone could do a horizontal tango in one, I don't know.

What I do know though is that, with the harsh rejection of homosexuality in America (especially among people of power and in government), homosexuals are often unable to express themselves and their sexuality in a healthy, normal way. They're pushed to hide it, and sometimes... I suppose that need comes out in strange ways and places...(?)

2. Because it's sensational, and gives people a reason to throw stones and distract the general public from the REAL dirt. Plus, people eat this sort of stuff up, while even entertaining the idea that the president is doing something wrong makes them uncomfortable.

Sad world we live in, that.

3. People have ways of deluding themselves... and I suppose he thought he could delude others as well. I have no idea...

(And I DON'T think someone can be "cured" of homosexuality. Many Christian homosexuals tend to "ignore" their preferences, and "repent" for them, but at the end of the day, all they're doing is ignoring a fundamental truth about themselves. At least, that's my two cents on it ;P.)

Georgia59 wrote:
Would there have been so much outrage if he was meeting a woman in the bathroom for some nookie?


Y'know, that's something to consider; I think most of the hype (though people probably wouldn't admit it to others or themselves) was over the "OMG GAY" factor of it all.

If it had been a woman, it still would have been a big deal, but I think the homosexuality involved stepped everything up to a whole new level.
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Mabel
replied on September 5th, 2007
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Re: Gays In the Bathrooms
sillyakchick wrote:
So recently a senator went to a Minneapolis airport bathroom where it was told that he would be able to solicit a man for gay sex. So he went there are did so, but the man he solicited was actually an undercover policeman. This senator claims that he is not gay, by the way. He also claims that it was just an isolated incident.


How do you know he went there knowing he'd been told he could solicit gay sex? I've not seen a single thing that says he knew he could solicit sex.

sillyakchick wrote:
If it was an isolated incident, how did he know enough to go there to a particular bathroom in the Minneapolis airport where the local authorities knew enough about the fact that this type of activity had been going on?


People talk? How do people seeking drugs find drug dealers? It is along the same lines. How do gay people find other gay people?

( how would you like to have to be THAT cop? Rolling Eyes )

So, alhtough public lewdness is in deed a crime, i don't place as much importance on this as, say, lying to the country to get involved in an oil war. But this man is going to be publicly humiliated by his republican bretheren and run out of town.

SO here's a few points to consider:

sillyakchick wrote:
1. WHY are men having sex in airport bathrooms with one another and then living a life outside that campaigns against the rights of homosexuals?


This is shame. They were brought up one way. All their friends believe one way and, believe it or not, there is still a stigma on homeosexuality.

sillyakchick wrote:
2. WHY is his crime worse than the other very obvious abuses of congressional, senatorial, and presedential power which are being orchestrated and carried out DAILY?


I don't think anyone said his crime was worse than anyone elses crime. He admitted to his crime though.

sillyakchick wrote:
3. HOW can this man claim now to not be gay?


Bi-sexual? Maybe he was just curious?

sillyakchick wrote:
Anyone remember the case of James Dobson? Ultra right wing conservaitive evangelical church leader of the focus on the family movement in colorado springs, CO? He not only requested a male prostitute to come to his home to rpovide him with his services, he also requested that he bring along a little gift package of crystal meth. Funny thing, he's still welcomed by that same church which condemns homosexual behavior. You know why? He REPENTED AND SAID, OK I AM CURED! I AINT GAY NO MORE!

Is this OK? Can he have been "cured"?

OPinions?


How about Jimmy Swaggart? Or Tammy Faye Baker's husband (cannot remember his name)? The church is about 'forgiveness' but I doubt people within the church TRULY forgave him - they are putting up the words that they forgave him because it is the right thing to do.

No, you cannot be cured of teh gay. Smile
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lonestarguy
replied on September 5th, 2007
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Georgia59 wrote:
Would there have been so much outrage if he was meeting a woman in the bathroom for some nookie?

Interesting word and situation. I think any public sexual activity is scrutinized more than it used to be and gays seem to be a major part of the arrests. Why does it seems like lesbians are never caught performing in public?

From what I've seen on this forum, plenty of straight people are having public sex, too, and not being caught. Maybe they stay out of public bathrooms and parks and know how to hide better.

I understand that the senator from Idaho was caught in a known gay meeting place, but was not exactly caught in the act. For whatever reason, probably pressure from his party, he pleaded guilty to a lesser charge to make it all go away because he is up for reelection.

Then a few days later, he realized what a chump he was and came out with the "I'm not gay" retraction. Apparently, he has been dogged by gay rumors for years, so most people don't know what to believe. All this probably means he will be reelected, even though he has managed to alienate straights and gays alike.
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Jude-Love
replied on September 5th, 2007
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1. I think people like this lie to themselves. They are raised with that sort of thinking for so long that they can't shake it, even if they themselves are experimenting with it personally. I don't view this dude any different than religious people who have premarital sex or get divorces or use birth control. Same idea.

2. Because it's butt sex and that bugs most people.

3. He very well could not be gay and is just bi-sexual or a little kinky. Who knows.
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Georgia59
replied on September 5th, 2007
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I think if lesbians were seen having sex in public the guys would like it too much and not complain. Wink

Hell, I'd like it too much.... and I'm straight as an arrow.....

But seriously, there is such a huge "you have to be a good Christian boy" phenomena- and anyone who defies that (gay, pro-choice, etc.) is ridiculed. :::::shaking head:::::::
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Mabel
replied on September 5th, 2007
Moderator
Georgia59 wrote:
I think if lesbians were seen having sex in public the guys would like it too much and not complain. Wink

Hell, I'd like it too much.... and I'm straight as an arrow.....

But seriously, there is such a huge "you have to be a good Christian boy" phenomena- and anyone who defies that (gay, pro-choice, etc.) is ridiculed. :::::shaking head:::::::


I don't know, I know some pretty manly levsbians. HAHA! Now if they were hot... maybe Smile
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sillyakchick
replied on September 6th, 2007
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The thing that bothers me most with all of this is the disgusting hypocrisy that it represents.
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Georgia59
replied on September 6th, 2007
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I think it would just be so much healthier if he would just say, Yes I am gay!! So what??

Unless he's married or something, I don't really know the whole story.
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Birch
replied on September 7th, 2007
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Brokeback Bathroom
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/27/cra ig.arrest/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

"...According to Roll Call, the arresting officer alleged that Craig lingered outside a rest room stall where the officer was sitting, then entered the stall next door and blocked the door with his luggage.

According to the arrest report cited by Roll Call, Craig tapped his right foot, which the officer said he recognized "as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct."

The report alleges Craig then touched the officer's foot with his foot and the senator "proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times," according to Roll Call.

At that point, the officer said he put his police identification down by the floor so Craig could see it and informed the senator that he was under arrest, before any sexual contact took place..."

How is this not thought-crime? Can anyone explain this to me?

I am really confused.

I understand why everyone is up in arms about it b/c he has been traditionally "anti-gay" in voting, and then here he comes with this business, but I don't understand how he can be charged with disorderly conduct (Minnesota law defines disorderly conduct as brawling, disturbing a meeting or engaging in "offensive, obscene, abusive, boisterous or noisy conduct"-from the article) just from these actions alone???
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Georgia59
replied on September 7th, 2007
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Maybe he expected it to get boisterous and noisy. Wink

I don't actually think they broke the law. The thing is, if a man and a woman had sex in a bathroom (which does happen) the most a cop would do is bust them and tell them to get a room. It has everything to do with an anti-gay attitude.

Just a question- I don't remember much of my high school law class, but how is this not entrapment??
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Georgia59
replied on September 7th, 2007
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Having been in that particular airport quite often (and recently) I'm not surprised that the cop had nothing better to do.
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Birch
replied on September 7th, 2007
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Georgia59 wrote:
Maybe he expected it to get boisterous and noisy. Wink

I don't actually think they broke the law. The thing is, if a man and a woman had sex in a bathroom (which does happen) the most a cop would do is bust them and tell them to get a room. It has everything to do with an anti-gay attitude.

Just a question- I don't remember much of my high school law class, but how is this not entrapment??


I've always thought that sex stings, like the stuff that Perverted Justice.com does in conjunction with that TV show, was classic entrapment. I guess they only get charged with 'intent to...whatever' because the person was actually overage that they were in contact with.

Yeah, I agree that there certainly is a grand anti-gay aspect to this whole deal. (Personally, I think it's sweet that this man who advocates against gay rights was nailed. Very Happy )
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sillyakchick
replied on September 8th, 2007
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I agree, Birch. I don't think he actually committed a crime. However, it really gets my goat that he's part of the whole anti-gay rhetoric and then he comes up with this! (it is sweet, though, isn't it?)
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