Marijo....You are not going to want to hear what I have to say about any of your questions, but I'll go ahead.

First of all, the discogram was a nightmare for me. You are right to be scared of this procedure. If they explained it to you, then you know basically what is going to happen and what the results mean.

They have to have you awake during so you can tell them where it hurts. You get injected with dye so they can see your discs on a flouroscope and know where to stick the needle. I won't lie to you, it was one of the most painful, uncomfortable procedures I have been through. Keep in mine, I have had DDD for seven years as well as every injection and procedure short of back surgery. Also, I have had four other major surgeries, been wounded in war, kidney stones and a broken kneecap and the pain for the discogram was right up at the top.

I also have weakness and numbness in my legs and feet and still get back spasms. I was not a candidate for spinal fusion because of the location of my bad discs. I am presently in pain management with massage and acupuncture. I finally got off of heavy pain meds--Norco, Oxycontin, Morphine--in February after four years and it was the hardest thing I have ever done. It took until May before I really felt over the drugs.

I'm so sorry to be nothing but negative for you, but I am on disability insurance right now after being forced to retire from my job. The insurance makes you apply for social security disability, so they don't have to pay you for the rest of your life. I applied for SSD in June, 2006, and I just found out that my case has finally made it to the court calendar. That doesn't mean it's going to be fast, just on somebody's radar screen now.

I'm so sorry that you are stuck in the conundrum of not working and little money. Good luck to you and pm me if you have any other questions.

Dude........ I have a ruptured l4 l5 disk and was told I had to do a diskogram to " PROVE " my pain. I did no research on it. When I went into the room there was a very large man there for "secruity reasons " They told me to lay face down on this table ,so I did. Then they STRAP my arms and legs down so I can not get away or " HURT MY SELF " It went slow at first then they pump that disk and WOW I was screaming for them to stop right there , but " UM NO WE NEED TO DOUBLE CHECK IT '. I was so bent after that exam I really wanted to hurt someone. I was told after that I positively have a rupture and need a fusion. Now my WC is beating me up with psycolgy exams I mean what the hell did I go threw that for . If I was asked to do it again I would decline, very nasty !!

Hey guys

I feel so lucky that I didn't have to go thru this ..... and I feel so heartbroken, that you are all going / went thru so much pain.
This procedure, and with some 'Security' body being in there, must have felt so undignafied and bloody frightening ... and to be straped down .. my mind races with nasty images...
I can't imagine ever being put thru this .... I had my disc removed, I had a MRI .. and when I said I couldn't feel my bladder or bowles, they instantly got me into the operating theatre and whipped that 'bad boy' out. I'm recovering now, it will take time, and it's now 16 months since the op. I still have difficulties walking, as I have damaged / severed a nerve which 'motors' my right foot.
The only undignafied time I had, was when I went for 'Steriod Injecions' and he didn't allow the anesetic to fully work, so when he put the needles in my back ... I called him the 'C' word ... which I don't like or use .. I did apologies tho ...
All you guys take care .... and keep your chin up Marijo.... keep insisting on more information, and alternative treatment if you ain't satisfied with what you are being told. I can't help with your SSD thing, as I'm English and we have a different system to you...sorry bud...

Ginger

I'm going in today 5-22-09 for the disk-o-gram and scared as hell.I slipped in water and fell at work!I hate pills,and people seem to not really belive that there is so much pain,if I'm not taking the pills!I've had 2 MRI'S and my left leg goes numb all the time!I can't work like this!
Dr. says I have 2 bulging discs and a small
tear in a third.But that the disc is not fully blown out so we need to pin point it with the Disk-o-gram.
brokeback you've got me even more worried,But your information has got my eyes open.....Thanks

...back pain than those with "negative" test results.

So for those of you whose mind isn't already made up to have a discogram (and the only reason for a discogram is if you're considering surgery for that disc):

Spine 29 no 10 (2004) E. Carragee "Prospective Controlled Study of the Development of Lower Back Pain in Previously Asymptomatic Subjects Undergoing Experimental Discography":
This study looked at discogram results in a group of people who didn't have back pain. Some had pain during the test; others didn't. They were all followed for four years, and it turned out that the ones with "positive" discograms weren't any more likely to develop back pain than those with "negative" test results.

So the study seems to show the test is inconclusive.
If you do have a discogram get it done "blind" by a second doctor who is not involved in your case and does not know the suspected disc. Then the doc should test at least 2 discs - the target disc and one other - without knowing which is suspect. This reduces the chance of the doc confirming his own beliefs.

So why would a doctor order a discogram even though they have been shown to provide questionable data?
1) They make money.
2) If it is found out after surgery that the disc was not the problem, the doc can fall back on the discogram citing "he was only doing what the test confirmed".

I have the charite artificial disk in L4 and L5 S1, and prior to my surgery I had to get a diskogram. To be totally honest, it was more uncomfortable then painful. That could be though because I had a mylogram done the week before that almost killed me. However, from what I can remember, my doctor made me as comfortable as possible, gave me some anti anxiety meds, and did what he had to do as quick and efficient as possible. By the time you say ow they are moving on to the next disk. Good luck and be brave!

Awaq,

That is an interesting study that you posted about, but leaves many, many questions unanswered.

It's a known fact that many, many people walk around with bulging discs and have no symptoms.
If those people where given a discogram, they may or may not have positive results from having a discogram done.

On the other hand, when someone with symptoms of disc problems present themselves at a spine surgeon's office, it is the job of the spine surgeon to find out what is causing the pain the patient has and then give a diagnosis and present a treatment plan to ease the patient's pain and get them back to "living a life again."

Many times and MRI on a patient that exhibits and describes spinal pain matches the images on MRI pics. Other times, it is not as clear cut as that, and further tests are needed to attempt to determine where or which discs are really causing the pain.

When conservative treatments fail to provide pain relief for the patient, epidural injections or nerve blocks do not give a clear enough answer to which disc is causing the pain, but both appear to be or are bulging, then it is necessary to do further tests in an attempt to answer those questions.

The usual procedure is to do several discs during a discogram not just one disc.

One of the problems I do have with the study you posted is this.

When I discogram is done on a patient that really is experiencing spine pain from bulging discs, a positive result is not pain. The positive result is recreating the patient's normal pain or increasing that pain. If the dye does not recreate the same pain as the patient experiences, then the test result on that disc is negative.
Even though the disc may look degenerated on an MRI scan, it is in fact not the source of the patient’s pain.

Since the patient is awake during a discogram and has to describe an react to whatever pain is felt, a doctor is not going to be able to confirm his/her own beliefs that a particular disc is the problem, when in fact that patient will tell the doctor if the same pain was recreated or increased on a particular disc.

I personally find your comments as to why a doctor would order a discogram offensive and an insult to doctors.

Doctors are not perfect, nor are tests done to determine a patient's cause of pain.

You obviously have a hidden agenda in your many negative posts about doctors and spine surgeons.

I don't know why you post the way you do, but believe me, there are thousands and thousands of good spine surgeons.

To continue to post, as you do, is not helpful to the many people that post here asking for help and advise on their spine problems.

Fran

"It's a known fact that many, many people walk around with bulging discs and have no symptoms. "
Correct. And there is little clinical evidence showing a correlation between what shows on an MRI and someone's pain.

"it is the job of the spine surgeon to find out what is causing the pain "
And putting the blame solely on a bad disc is myopic and misguided.

"Many times and MRI on a patient that exhibits and describes spinal pain matches the images on MRI pics."
I'd like to see your source for that statement. My reference material shows otherwise.

"When I discogram is done on a patient that really is experiencing spine pain from bulging discs, a positive result is not pain. The positive result is recreating the patient's normal pain or increasing that pain. If the dye does not recreate the same pain as the patient experiences, then the test result on that disc is negative. "
You're contradicting yourself.

"a doctor is not going to be able to confirm his/her own beliefs that a particular disc is the problem, when in fact that patient will tell the doctor if the same pain was recreated or increased on a particular disc. '
Not according to the doctor who wrote those words. Maybe you know more than him though.

"Doctors are not perfect, nor are tests done to determine a patient's cause of pain. "
Then that's a big risk to use as a basis for spine surgery, don't you think?

"You obviously have a hidden agenda in your many negative posts about doctors and spine surgeons."
So what would that be? I am printing factual clinical studies. You have a problem with facts? And these facts I cite are coming straight from one of NYC's most prominent spine surgeons.
So what is your hidden agenda? You seem to take offense at anyone who does not agree with your POV. Are opinions contrary to your allowable? It is a public forum.

"To continue to post, as you do, is not helpful to the many people that post here asking for help and advise on their spine problems. "
Why? Because they don't sit well with your personal opinions? If someone chooses to ignore clinical studies then that is their choice but they should have the right to weigh all the facts both good and bad. Don't you agree?

I had one done, they did 3 discs, I did not think it was that bad, but it did prove without a doubt that my back was damaged, and got the ball rolling in my defense. If you need to prove it, in most cases you have to do it...

I've had two discograms and one mylogram. Cervical fusion, c3-c5,DDD, spurs, severe stenosis,and the whole list of issues that go along such a condition. A discogram is perhaps a necessary information tool for the surgeon or to cover their rear, but however you look at it, I's rather take a beating. It is nothing other than shear pain. Depending on how many discs they are looking at, the drugs they give to relief and forget the procedure are far from effective. I submit that if you had just discomfort from the disco gram, then you were lucky to not be as inflamed as those of us that sceamed bloodey homicide in the procedure room. They hesitate to infom you about what the whole thing is about until just before the event. I refused to have the second one done until it was dictated for any additional treatment. Why the post above got a bit cranky when suggested the doctors and surgeons aren't the white hat guys, well, maybe in the beginning. I'm sure for them to exist in the field, they have to become cold and unpersonal because of all the pain they see and hear everyday. How can a person deal with that day after day and realize that the chance of doing some good is maybe 50/50.

I just had a discogram this morning. The pain was excruciating! I am now on the livingtoom sofa 14 hrs later, and just now able to walk with nausea and 7/10 pain. This test revealed a lot about pain that didn't really "make sense." I was having a huge amount of pain that was so bad, that it was almost like my mind generalized it to my whole lowerback. I almost didn't even know how to describe it any more. Durring the discogram, I had mild pain at L1. L2-L5 all had moderate to excessively excruciating pain that continued to get worse for nearly 2 hours after the procedure. I am somewhat better off in my opinion because I mentally have a grasp on the origination of my pain. Being only 30 yrs old, I also want to go into future surgical possibilities and considerations with as much information and data as possible. This test has done that for me. I am definitely glad that it is over. That test was unreal!.... Afterward, I felt like I had compounded every past back injury I had ever been through, into the 45 min long procedure. Ouch! Anyone considering this test please don't be discouraged! The test is worth it. After future surgeries, I personally want the contentment of being able to rest on the fact that I considered and tried everything before moving on. This test has given me that.