To Circumsize Or Not To Circumsize?

I'm not going to circumcise my boy; if I did, I'd have to circumcise my daughter too. Same thing, isn't it? And we can all agree that female circumcision is disgusting.

To be fair, if you were to circumsize the girl in the same manner, it would just be removing the clitoral hood, not doing the whole female circumcision we have heard the horrors of.

Not that I'm advocating that in any way... :::::shudder:::::

To be fair, it's cosmetic surgery on the genitals of an unconsenting person.

Not a single medical authority in the WORLD recommends it. They all admit there's isn't sufficient evidence of medical benefit that warrants the risks and that it is very painful. They all recommend that pain relief must be given (and it usually isn't). Check the American Academy of Pediatrics' statements and the Canadian Pediatric Society.

Most of the men in the whole world are intact. Canada's and UK's rates are extremely low. The US has the highest cutting rate in the world.

Your husband is likely reacting badly because he is not intact. If he admits that circ isn't necessary, he is admitting that it is wrong, and that what was done to him is wrong. Worse yet, it would be admitting that his penis isn't... whole. The greatest perpetuators of male circumcision are circumcised males.

To help convince your hubby (to start), here are a couple links:

Some quotes from Howard Stern on Circumcision:
http://www.sexua llymutilatedchild.org/stern.htm

A Penn & Teller Bull#*%& Video on Circumcision:
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?ei=UTF -8&b=0&vid=620449

Routine infant female circumcision was legal in the US only 30 years ago.... how do you think people will feel about male circumcision in 30 years?

Did you know that the doctor stimulates an erection (thus, the infant's first sexual experience) in order to approximate how much skin to remove?

Next an object is used to tear the foreskin away from the glans (head) before it is cut off. Did you know that until a child is retractable (avg age 10.5 years), the foreskin is attached to the glans in the same way your fingernail is attached to your finger? Imagine wripping your fingernail off....

Also babies are hypersensitive to pain because they lack the myelin sheath that serves to insulate nerves protecting the body from profound pain - which isn't developed until adulthood.

His body, his penis.

I could go on and on, but can't right now. This has been discussed to death, but the posts are old so aren't seen. There's plenty of information to be found to arm yourself for your next discussion with your hubby. If you have any specific concerns, i.e. if he gives you specific reasons for wanting to mutilate your future son(s) feel free to PM me with a specific question and I would be happy to provide you with information.

Oh, no, it's this debate again.

It's one of my pet peeves, so I will respond even though I hate this because it's so bloody logical and obvious and yet still people will come up with ridiculous excuses to justify it.

Circumcision is genital mutilation, hands down. Whether it be boy or girl, it's wrong for a myriad of reasons.

I'm sorry, it sounds like either your husband is uninformed or has a hang up about his own penis and is some kind of 'macho' man. Stick to your guns on this one, Georgia, he's wrong wrong wrong.

Just to be clear- I really am not looking for a debate. Just needed to know how I can convince my husband and why he is so weird about it.


Thanks guys... you're making me feel really validated.

And thanks especially for the links, those seem like articles he'll actually read lol.

:::::sigh::::: men....

Thank goodness I'm not having kids anytime soon-- I need plenty of time to work this one into him.

Sure, Georgia. Didn't mean to make it sound like I was trying to convince you... you really don't need convincing.

Georgia just needs some support! (switching into support mode... breathing huge sigh of relief).

My husband is circed so it was a difficult discussion for us too. Unfortunately circ rates were much higher in Canada 25 years ago. =( Because he's circed I was worried he might want to circ and wanted to make sure we were on the same page before we were ttc (no we're not ttc soon).

It was a short discussion, because he recognises that it isn't medically necessary (or even medically justified) so... figures it's not needed. But, I wanted him to be passionately against it, as I am. I went a little overboard, and it made him feel bad. It's impossible to speak passionately with someone who is circed about how bad circ is without making them feel bad about their own circ. I could've been much more sensitive about it.... but I apologized then reminded him that I love his whole body exactly as it is.

The current circ rate in the US is around 50% nationwide.... and that's the highest rate in the world. What is encouraging is that the rate will continue to decline as more and more insurance companies stop paying for it. Many have recognized that it is cosmetic surgery and therefore don't pay for it.

Like I said, if you EVER have any specific questions/concerns or need help responding to a specific reason your hubby wants to circ, or if you just want some more links (I've got lots) - just PM me anytime.

as a circumsized male i have to say ... don't circumsize him.

Oh, benc that made me sad.

P.S. To Georgia (for your hubby).... Ron Jeremy is very adamantly against circumcision as well.

Iam a young mother of two boys in Australia. And there was never any question as to whether they would be circumsized or not? My husband and I both come from families where all the men have been done so it was just a given. I have heard all the debates against. But I didn't want my little boy growing up asking why he was different from Daddy? My mother is a nurse in an Old Folks Home and some of the Horror things she has seen in older men that are not circed just can't be spoken about, all due to the fact that either they don't know how to clean them selves properly or are just past it.

This is an old subject that needs to be discussed because I sense a change in the circ. wars. As a circumcised male who was cut without a choice, I have become adamantly opposed to circumcising babies.

After sliding through life, it was mostly a non-issue to me because almost everyone I knew or saw was cut. But I have started reading about the factors involved with circumcision (health issues, desensitivity of the penis, insurance, etc.) and I see that it is indeed mutilation and very painful. I wasn't given any medicine according to my mother and screamed bloody m*rder. Anne123 gave a good description of the pain. And, NO, I don't remember the pain.

I know the big argument in the past was that the father wanted his sons to look like him. That was the determining factor in the cutting of our two sons back in the 1970s. As mentioned before, it was almost an automatic procedure in the USA at that time. But, there is another factor that should not be ignored--I was also YOUNG and STUPID then. Now, I wish both my sons had been allowed to choose for themselves later in life. Hell, I wish I had had a choice!!

Georgia59--I think we have pretty much figured out your hubby's reaction. But that doesn't mean you can't start working on changing his mind over the coming months. Start letting him know some of the facts which Anne123 imparted.

Anne123--you know more than anybody I have encountered about this subject and I appreciate your sharing it with us. Knowledge about this is the key to turning around the cutting trend in America. Thanks.

And eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek. Yes, we can all agree with Eiri about female circumcision being disgusting. Even to a man, this sounds barbaric.

I am totally against circumcision too and agree with everyone elses comments against it Didnt have my son circ'd and wont any future boys I may have, whether the father agrees or not. No man is making me do that.

In reply to something Jacinta said, its not as if boys grow up seeing their father's penis anyway. Did you grow up looking at your mums vagina and comparing it to yours?? That excuse is so ridiculous. No ones body is exactly the same as anothers, and you're excuse is he may see his dads and burst into tears because his isnt the same?! Come on now

Morgan

Yes, painful cosmetic surgery on an infant to look like his dad, or to look like his peers is ridiculous. A little boy's penis will never look like his dad's (if he even sees his dad's), and by the time they start looking similar (in the teenage years maybe) they aren't seeing eachother naked. Besides who cares?!?

Damn, I wish my parents had given me implants and a nose job when I was baby. Then I could look like my mom - and I wouldn't remember the pain of the recovery.

If the boy grows up and he wishes to opt for cosmetic surgery, that is his decision to make as an adult and he will have adequate pain relief during and after surgery. Infants cannot be given adequate pain relief as the drugs aren't safe for infants and they are not able to communicate their pain. Recovery is also much worse for an infant because he has a wound in a diaper, getting feces and urine on it.

I have to stop writing, because now I feel ill. Lonestarguy, thank you for your response. Your sons will forgive you (or already have). You did the best you could with the information you had at the time. When you know better, you do better. You have the opportunity to educate them (when the time is appropriate) to save your future grandsons.

This is a controversial area....we just had a baby and my husband and I were very torn on the matter. In the hospital he was adamant to have it done and I just couldn't stomach it. They told us they were going to use SUGAR WATER for pain...that's it!!!! I panicked and ran down there to get him. I brought him home and then started the research. Since we already have 3 boys that ARE circumcised...it was a no brainer until something in me just CLICKED. Anyway, he is still intact...no circumcision. My DH actually decided against it. I guess he was listening to all the information I was reading afterall. I am still scared about him long term....

The sick and sad thing is that society makes you feel like you are wronging your child for leaving him intact. That is sad. I feel like we are now going to have to think about this issue...for the long haul whereas it would have been much easier to just circ him and brush it all under the rug. NOW, honestly...isn't it sad that society perpetuated things to this degree?!?!?!?!?! I don't agree with circumcision. I think it is sad that we have let it go this far. Honestly, it started out here for some sordid reasons. I think that it should be stopped...but I also don't want to be a big ol' anti circ woman because I don't want my other boys to feel like they got the bad end of the stick. If never mentioned the average male (circumcised) just goes on about his business happily...none the wise. I am afraid that my boys will be too aware...by not circing this baby....

So, that is the sad psychology that is forced upon us. Bare in mind, I don't think circumcision is right...so not saying anyone should do it...in fact...I think people shouldn't. I just wanted to shed light on how hard it can be to do the "right" thing. Know what I mean?

Georgia59,
I am in GA. If you want to chat this up, let me know. Also, there are some good sites....like Mothersagainstcircumcision, or nocirc, or DOC...however, I encourage you to go the non-bias route and read the MAIN medical data. Your husband will not view this as "bias" or "eccentric" in anyway and the point is still the same. No major group of medical professionals will advise that routine infant circumcision is beneficial medically and that decision is one for social/religious/personal reasons. IN fact, I believe it was Australia that put a ban on the procedure in certain areas because of the ethical consent issues. Technically, it's not OUR body...how can we consent to cosmetically change it forever? That was their point. So, shut it down. You can read about that online.

Good luck to you...good job for thinking this through AHEAD of time. Do not wait until you are at the hospital to make a decision. This leaves too much room for people to pressure you with their own agenda. In addition, you need to make sure that adequate pain relief is used if you do decide to go that route. Adequate would be (according to the AAP) EMLA, Penile block, or ring block and none of those completely take away the pain. The ring block is most effective...but requires 4 injections to the penis. Most doctors will argue that the procedure could be done by then. Screw that. Tell them to put numbing gel on BEFORE they do the injections then. Geez. Some people...See, the way I see it is...I had a VERY fast labor...but it still HURT just the same with NO medication, know what I mean? It will still hurt even if it's fast. Just think about doing what is best for your baby and what you can live with as a mother. I couldn't imagine no pain relief and most of the surgeons do it that way. DONT LET THEM DO THAT TO YOUR BABY. ITS CRUEL. Circumcision debate aside...EVERYONE agrees anesthesia is a MUST.

my son is and they did give him pain meds since he was sedated anyway
for his breathing tube to be put back in and iv tubes and such s he didnt feel any pain thank god.

My son is and they gave him a local to help with pain. He didn't seem to be that uncomfortable during or after. Within a week it was healed completely.
I left the decision totally up to his father, as I felt he was the expert in the penis area. If he had said he didn't want it done I would have been ok with that.