Laser Spine Surgery

I Rich! I am sorry to say this but, I have to blame the system. I am on Florida medicaid and those that are in that group are the last ones to get help. Take for instance the Neurosurgeon I am seeing here only does two medicaid spinal surgeries a month. And the is all St. Joe's hospital in Tampa will execept also. I am in a minority Rich. Without good insurance, you are at the end of the line. Simailar to those abroad that come to the states for surgeries due to the long waiting list. I really is a shame and I hate to go "Off Topic" but we need CHANGE on the hill. People like me suffering just because we have no real insurance and the state basically dictates when, where and how.

BTW: All your prayers are working!

Bonded Hugs,
Carrie

Hello Carrie,

Sorry I vented more than I should have. You have stated your medical situation in the past, and I forgot.

YES, the health care system in the U.S. is a mess. How many times do I tell people they NEED to see a spine specialist, and then to find out they have no insurance or have one of those policies where their GP determines if and when they can see a specialist.

Moderator, I hope you will permit me to say the following without deleting this post. Carrie, John Edwards campaigned very strongly for a health system in this country which would cover EVERYONE. He campaigned for the poor, and for peace. Our family just does not understand why the American people did not provide the support to him that we feel they should have.

This country cannot continue down the same path it is going. We cannot have lobbists and huge companies controlling it.

In the Preamble of the United States Consitution it states - "We the people of the Unitied States --------promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity -------" Carroe. what has happened? There should not be a single person in the U.S. who cannot seek proper treatment for their back pain. Not a single one!!!

Thank you moderator for being understanding.

I dare say God wishes His will would not be slowed down by man.

"Bonded Hugs". I like that Carrie. Many bonded hugs back to you.

RichT

I forgot to tell you. The thing that worries me most here is the fracture. Any fracture take anywhere from 6-8 weeks to heal (fixed or not) and calcification starts to fill in the gap. Something has to fill the space. So, the longer I have to wait means they will have to almost re-brake it and remove any calcification that may have accumulated over time. I has to be removed nevertheless. Bones also live on calcium. I am now taking 500mg with Vit D twice a day, Plus Boniva once a month. Just call me Sally Fields!. That is just one of my worries to say the least. Then there is a liftime with compression. I feel the long you let it linger it will stay that way forever.

Bonded Hugs to you and your wife,
Carrie

BTW: I will just say this. God has already answered the prayers. No more said.

Rich, Are you satisfied with the Social Security System that the government started x-number of years ago? Remember all of the promises that went with the starting of that systerm?

Are you satisfied with Medicare today? When the government started that health care system it was to take care of every medical need of the retired and aging population Look at all the changes that have taken place in that system, plus the need for supplements, advantage plans etc. And everything is taxed on top of that as income tax. We have triple taxation for what the government was going to "give us." We pay out the wazooo for medical care but at least we get some care.

What makes you think a Universal Health Care System is going to be the answer to all of our prayers? Isn't that why our northern borders have people pouring into our country for our system's medical care; not to speak of those coming through our southern borders?

Our government is willing to have misplaced compassion for the entire world except for Americans....legal Americans. Yes, Rich, I agree with you, there is a lot wrong with our systems. It doesn't look like our politicians are really interested in hearing us. They just want to get into office.

Sorry moderators, but the above posting begged my questions to Rich. If there is any more, I will communicate with Rich via PM.

Marie B.

Marie, I'll respond by way of PM later today.

I think our Mods will give us a little bit of slack here. As long as we don't go overboard. PM is a very good idea though.

Universal Health Care is a great idea if it weren't for the huge shortage of Drs. in most of the Provinces. The shortage is exacerbated by the fact that our Drs. have a cap on their income, so many of them head to the U.S. where they aren't capped, and they can make a much higher income. A lot of back specialists in Ontario are booked solid for 3 years so it is hopeless for the elderly to expect any help because they are way down the list as far as priorities go. There are no private clinics allowed and it takes months to get an appt with a specialist, or to get a MRI. The problem in the U.S. is that they can almost name their price because people are willing to pay out of desperation. Have been hearing lately that people are starting to head overseas to India because they are getting their surgery for 1/10th of what they would pay in the U.S. I guess there are no perfect answers.

I have to be at LSI at 7:30am this Monday. I pray this surgery turns out to be everything I am hoping for.
Mare

We will pray with you that the laser surgery turns out to be eveything you are hoping for also.

Mare B.

hello everyone. I have been reading the posts on this site for about 3mos, they have been very helpfull. I have looked into LSI and Bonati. I am scheduled for surgery at Bonati on feb 14/20/26. I will post the results after I'm done. I have been to five surgeons over the last eight years, themost recent in Manhattan& Phila. They all say the same thing complete fusion of my spine. The outlook of that does not look to good to me , so I sent my MRI to Bonati. They said that I would probably need three surgerys, but that can change after they do tests. I have never had any surgery in my life and I'm quite nervous. I hope that I made the right decision. My mri's show, bulge at L1/2,L2/3,L3/4,L4/5. DDD at same levels and degenerative facet disease,severe stenosis, severe spondylosis,scoliosis and a few other things, Im sorry for the long post.
Jerseyboy

I was reading Jeseyboy's post. Welcome Jerseyboy to this forum.

I have to read up more on degenerative disc disease. Having buldging discs does not mean that the discs are degenerative. At least there is nothing I have read that links the two terms as one in the same. I think you have to look at the severe spondylosis and scoliosis which you MRI is showing as your biggest problem. The Laser Centers in Florida do not address these issues of the spine in their surgeries. I have read they do Laminectomies for stenosis. But if you have severe spondylosis which is spine slippage that means your cord canal is being blocked to a certain degree. They don't address spine slippage, other then to do a Laminectory as the websites claim, and if it is severe, not doing Fusion suggests that post op, the slippage can continue because there is nothing preventing further slippage. I looked into that and I never got any real answers as to what happens when severe spine slippage is not addressed during surgery with Fusion. At least nothing that satisfied my search for answers.

Fusion is a fearful subject when you just read about it on the Internet. All you hear are the problematic results. There are many people who have spinal Fusion and who have no problems and no pain....Many, many.
With the issues you have identified in your post, I don't know how the Laser Center is going to help you completely since they don't do Fusion and of course they then tell you about all of the people who have problems post Fusion.

Were the 5 surgeons you went to spinal specialists? Not just surgeons who do surgery and spine problems are one of the surgeries.

I do hope your decision works for you and that you achieve all you desire in deciding for a Laser Center. Good Luck and do let us know how you are doing.

Marie B.

Is your condition severe spondylosis? Or is it severe spondylolisthesis? There is a difference between the two. Spondylosis is arthritis that affects the spine. Spondylolisthesis is a vertebral slippage. What Marie B. said is correct...laser spine surgery will not correct a vertebral slippage. Laser surgery will only address fixing the pain...not the problem itself...when it comes to spondylolisthesis. I have grade 2 spondylolisthesis at L5/S1. I too, looked into laser spine surgery as a solution (albeit, an expensive one!). But then I realized that the slippage would still remain. I can't justify spending $30k on a procedure that isn't designed to fix the problem. For now, my pain is at a tolerable level...and I'll just continue to take a pain med each day until it gets to the point where it becomes intolerable. The pain med (50mg tramadol) takes enough of the edge off to enable me to get to the gym for my daily workout. Exercise is the one thing that I truly believe has helped my back issues. Without it, I'd be a mess.

Linda

Hello Jerseyboy,

Your post was not long at all. You provided the details that help us try and help you.

To add -

Even one of the laser spine institues told me that to "correct" my spondylothesis I would need to have "fusion", which from my understanding they do not do. Just be aware of that.

For a bit of "reference". Every neurologist/spine surgeon who has looked at my MRIs has said "WHAT have you done to your back?" And "You have so many things wrong we don't know what we should try and do to help you." Yep, DDD, slipped vertebrae, stenosis, etc., etc.

ASK a lot of questions before you sign a check at LSI. Have a full understanding of WHAT and HOW they are going to do something. AND that holds true for any spinal surgeon, including those using "traditional" techniques.

Hope the above gives you some "food for thought" without muddying the waters.

RichT

Hello Nscrbug,

You and I have independently come to the same conclusion regarding our backs. Right or wrong, I'm going to keep the knife away for as long as I can.

For me, without my PM doc I'd be on pain meds, or perhaps even consented to having surgery with two fusions. The first epidural was FANTASTIC, and is still working. The 2nd epidural has helped my lower back pain. I can't stand in one position or sit in an uncomfortable chair, BUT I can move, twist, bend and anything else one does in gardening. That is good enough for me.

I wish you the very best.

RichT

Hi Rich,

Yes...it does appear that you and I have similar thinking, on the subject of surgery. Also sounds like we have the same issues, too (spondy, DDD, stenosis, etc.). I am far too active a person, to be sidelined by surgery right now. I simply can't imagine myself giving up nearly all the things I live and breathe for, in order to recover from major open back surgery. Luckily for me, my pain level is tolerable at this moment...and I can live with it. Is it annoying and frustrating? Of course it is! Does it limit what I can do? Sure...sometimes it does. Maybe I have a high tolerance for pain and have just gotten used to it...I don't really know. For right now though, the once daily pain med does the trick for me. Naturally, I hope not to be on the pain meds forever...and I realize it's just a temporary solution. Who knows what will happen down the road. I may wake up one morning to intolerable pain someday. I'll deal with that, if and when it happens. In the meantime...I'll keep using my inversion table (which seems to be helping) everyday, I'll keep taking my Tramadol and Naproxen each morning, and I'll keep getting my butt over to the gym everyday for my workout. It's what works for me.

Linda

Linda, you were right on to notice that jerseyboy saying that he had spondylosis, not spondylolithesis. The second is what I had and our thread goes so fast, I read jerseyboys post to quickly. There is a difference between the two.

I wonder which he has. I hope it is as he has initially stated rather then the spine slippage.

I think you have made a good decision Linda. If you can still exercise and take one dose of meds a day, I would have made a similar choice particularly if I had been younger. I have been told that spine slippage will advance and that there is only so much exercise can do to retard that forward tip. Will you be having an X-Ray on a regular basis to assure yourself that the slippage remains a 2 degree?

Marie B.

Oh, I will definitely keep a close eye on my slippage with x-rays at regular intervals, Marie. I realize that at some point, down the road...I may have no choice but to succumb to a non-conservative form of treatment. Sadly, our bodies don't get better with age, so I do expect some level of additional slippage as I get older. But as long as I'm still healthy and active, I'll keep holding off the idea of surgery for as long as I possibly can.

Linda

Hello everyone.
Thank you for responding to my post. I tried to keep my post short, but now I will give a little more detail.
Marie B. - The first three surgeons I went to were ordinary, but I wanted to get teh best opinion that I could get. The last one that I went to was the Chief of Spine Surgery at the Hospital for Special Surgery in Manhattan.
When he showed me the hardware that was going to be put in my back, along with the fusion, it actually took my breath away.
I won't take the space to list all the procedures that would be done, but there are quite a few. Recuperation would be six to 12 months. It takes 12 months to totally fuse.
I have been a heavy smoker for 40 years and he said that may prevent the fusion from taking place. He also said I may need another surgery the following year. You are right, bulging discs do not have to degenerative. Unfortunately, I have both.
I also have three that are herniated. I do have spondylosis, as stated in my previous post.
Rich T - I will be having surgery at Bonati, not LSI. I realize that laser surgery does not fix anything. I don't think that they claim to, but they say that they can relieve the pain.
I have had a back back for 11 years. The past eight have been hell. The past year has been the deepest hell. I take 320 mg Oxycontin and four percocets a day, with little relief.
I can continue, but this post is too long already.
Jersey Boy

Your posts aren't too long. I think littleonefb can be the longest but she is usually providing a lot of details for others. Rich would probably say that I am another poster who expresses themselves in long posts.

Those titanium rods and screws can take your breath away can't they? Did they say from where they were going to get the bone grafts; your hip? And did he tell you how many levels he wanted to Fuse using the bone grafts, rods and screws? Those rods are supposed to hold the bone grafts against the vertebrae and with time the Fusion would become permanent.

I, too, ran from a surgeon who wanted to Fuse using rods and screws. If we had been seeing the same doctor there would have been a race between the two of us as to who would get out the door faster.

Smoking is a major factor in preventing Fusion to take place. If so many people knew for a fact what happens to the bones after years of smoking, they might never want to smoke again.

It would be nice if you could let us know what Bonati has planned for you. It would be a real learning experience for people who are in a similar situation and we would certainly appreciate hearing the details.
Just remember, the first days post op you may feel no pain, but once the substances they use, either pain paste or injections, wear off you will feel the pain of surgery. So take it easy on yourself and don't over do. As everyone here tell me regularly, Patience, Patience Patience. I hope you don't have to rush back to work either. That can be another strain on a spiney post op.

We all will be anxious to hear from you.

Marie B.

Mare,
Please check your PM when you get a chance.
Thanks and God bless,
Carrianne