Laser Spine Surgery

this is my first time posting, but i have been reading since october 2007. i took my husband for laser spine surgery on nov 1st. he was pain free before coming off the table, he had a great experience, the people were nice: all of them. we flew home on the 3rd. he is an electrician and was very anixous to get back to work, but waited for 8 weeks.he worked 3 days his first week back and 4 days later when he got out of bed, he began to feel pain in his back and legs again. but not as intense as before surgery, but very depressing for him. it has been little over a week and the pain hasn't went away yet. the facility that i took him to says maybe he needs some injections and if that doesn't help then possibly a second surgery, woo!!! that will be another big expense since they don't take ins. was wondering if anyone has had a bad experience since surgery or has everyone been fine? could anyone suggest what might help my husband, other than surgery. thanks mary

Hello Tjh,

Welcome to this forum and especially to this thread. Thanks for following along since October.

Thank you so very much for sharing with us your husband's recovery experience since his surgery. You have given each of us (whether a poster or just "listening in") a reality check regarding surgery.

I hope and pray that this is only a temporary set back for your husband and that he will not need additional surgery at this time. Hopefully the injection will help reduce any inflammation that may be contributing to your husband's pain.

Again thank you for sharing. I hope others will share their experiences and answer the questions that you have asked.

Please do keep us updated. We welcome you and your husband to our spiney family here.

RichT

Carriane
I am pinning my hopes on this surgery at LSI because it is really my last chance to "get my life back". I so want to be able to stand up without dying of agony, and walk again...shop, garden, etc. I go in Monday and Tues. the 14th and 15th for my evaluation (MRI, blood work, etc). Your prayers are really appreciated.Maybe you could pop in to LSI sometime during the day. It would be nice to meet you. My husband will be hanging around in the cafeteria probably ..(Jim - tall bearded gentleman - 6.

Did you know isis188 on the other forum? She was to have surgery at LSI on Jan. 10..in fact she and her husband were planning to arrive in Florida today and we were going to try to meet somewhere, but she just posted yesterday the sad news that her husband died on Christmas Eve and that she wouldn't be going anywhere for a while. How very tragic and sad for her. She has been suffering a lot and waiting so long for this surgery.


Mary
Did your husband have his surgery at LSI? What a disappointment that must be for you. I think that is what a lot of us are afraid will happen....paying all that money only to have nothing change. My sister had surgery at LSI last January and she is still doing well....can stand and walk without pain. She has arthritis in other parts of her spine, but nothing that stops her from walking. With the two open-back surgeries I had in 2001, and 2006 I never had any time that I was pain-free...only got worse after each one even though the Drs. both told me that "this will fix you right up".

Mare

Good Morning Mare,

Thank you for sharing with us the loss of Isis husband. I will extend my thoughts of sympathy to her. A most difficult time for her now and we need to give her all the support we can.

Take care.

RichT

Mare, Why did you choose LSI over Bonati? Was it the cost?

Rich, it would be nice to keep a record of who goes where in regard to the laser centers in Florida. What specific spinal problem the doctor would be addressing, who the actual doctor was who performed the surgery at the laser center?

I get so torn up when I read statements eg. this person went to "tada" and had back surgery, and he did really well but when I went, or my friend (fill in the person) went he had a poor results.
If we have no idea what the initial cause of the pain was that justified the surgery, how can we judge a place or a doctor as one we would go to?

I'm afraid there are too many people who are not learning enough about their spinal condition, before they decide where to go and who they want to do their surgery. Even if a person has pain, it is so esssential to understand "why the pain?". When the spine is involved, the person suffering must go beyond the pain, because the spouse, brother, sister only knows the person is having pain. Get another person involved not only as another person with ears, but another person that can help learn about the problem. Today that is so essential. Please, please, please don't go to a doctor and think,(no matter if he says, We will fix you right up.") he will go in and do the job just right.

And for an electrician to go back to work 8 weeks of surgery and think he can function as he did before is mistaken thinking. The last electrician's tool box I saw come into my house, that box weighed as much as I did. He also does a lot of bending, stretching, twisting,lifting and climbing. Unless he was going back to perform at a desk and push papers, I would say he should dampen his anxiousness to be normal until several months post op have gone by. He could easily have a disc herniate again...but we don't know what the surgery was about in the first place so we can not offer many suggestions and can only express our sympathy.

Marie B.

yes, my husband had surgery @ LSI and everything with our experience was great. yes, my husband is an electrician, but he doesn't carry around a big box to do his job with. I don't regret anything that was done in florida, because they did help him. and maybe he did go back to work to soon. but it takes both our wages to pay our bills. and we don't know how we are going to pay for the surgery, but we will get thru it. my husband feels like he is the man of the family and it is hard for him to let that male ego go for awhile and maybe stay home longer, but he didn't. so now we will deal with it. the reason for the possible 2nd surgery is that he also had another level that was a little bad. so maybe that is causing his pain, i'm not sure, but i thank you for your thoughts and prayers. i am glad to here that your sister is doing fine, that is great. mary

Marie
I accompanied my sister last Jan. when she went to LSI and they were so friendly and helpful...and I was impressed by their facilities and willingness to answer questions etc. Not to mention all the testimonies on the walls and tables, and the positive reviews from the people who were in for PT just following their surgeries. I can't judge Bonati except by what I read, and they seem to have a similar type of facility. It seems though that they do 2 surgeries instead of 1 and the time period is lengthier. I would imagine the price is comparitive in the long run (not sure). I am paying out of pocket regardless because I can not get coverage in Canada.
As well, LSI is more convenient to where I am staying. I understand that some of the LSI rec'd training at Bonati so would imagine their method of surgery would be similar.
I guess it is like any surgery...some people are fortunate and recover fully...others continue to suffer or get worse. With open back, such as I have had, the percentage rate for successful surgeries are much lower than for laser surgeries.

Mary
I know my sister did better and better and the year progressed so hopefully your husband will improve over the year. The price of having surgery is so enormous...with me it will be a one time thing.

Mare, I do pray that all will go well with your surgery. And you are right when you say that with time a person does improve. And I agree with you when you say"with me it will be a one time thing." I have said to Fran on more then one occassion that I will go kicking and screaming if another spinal surgery ever faces me. You are right that it is "so enormous." You know, they say a mother forgets the pain of birthing a child and that may be true, but the initial pain I experienced post op after the Pain Paste that is put on the cauda equina word off, I can say I don't want to experience that ever again. Even though it was a short time of pain and it was not the pain that I had experienced from the stenosis prior to my surgery, I don't want to do that again.

Marie B.

I understand about the needed two paycheck family to get by, today.
I was just saying to my husband that it was depressing for me to see how hard people are forced to work today and how the pressure of the daily work grind now presses two people. I have been listening to the debates for the primaries. There is a lot of talk. But I don't see how they are ever going to make it easier for families.

So take care and take care of that husband of yours. I hope that he will recover and the pain he is experiencing is nothing but the newly operated on spine making noise for more rest.

Marie B.

I just finished reading the last several posts about recovering from spinal surgery and returning to work very quickly and would like to post some thoughts and this.

These thoughts are by no means meant to condemn anyone for anything, including the type of surgery that they have chosen or the location in which the surgeries where done.

They are only my thoughts on recovering from spinal surgery, as I have, and returning to as much of life as possible afterwards.

IMHO, I believe there is a misconception that laser surgery and or minimally invasive surgery has a quicker recovery rate than the more traditional open back surgery.

I base this on the fact that once the entry way to the area of surgery is reached, a laminotomy, laminectomy, foraminotomy are all one in the same. The surgical tools may or may not be different, but the end result is exactly the same.

It is the entry way that is different and the recovery from the entry way incision has a quicker recovery, but the actual surgery procedure does not heal any quicker with an endoscopic entry vs an open back surgical incision.

In otherwords, an endoscopic incision that is covered with a bandaid will heal more quickly than a 1 inch surgical incision and that will heal more quickly than a larger incision.

But the fact still remains that it takes quite some time for the surgical site itself to heal and for the body to recover from the surgery itself.

One may feel full pain relief as soon as the surgery is completed. I can vouch for that myself, and my laminotomy was done with a minimally invasive 1 inch incision, closed with 1 stitch and a 2x4 inch gauze pad covering it, an done under general anesthesia.

I was discharged 9 hours after arriving at the hospital, arrived barely able to walk in, but all but ran out the door.

But that didn't make me recovered, nor was i recovered 8 weeks after surgery either.

One needs to remember that the, no matter how the surgery was done, nerves have been compressed and muscles have not been used, or used correctly for quite some time. Many times this has been going on for years.

It takes a considerable time for the nerves to heal and the muscles to be able to function properly again and sometimes they won't fully recover.

Hence the great importance to a good solid physical therapy program to help you learn the proper exercises to do to strengthen the core muscles, learn to use and reuse the weakened muscles again. How to properly move and function again.

This goes along with the internal healing that is done from the actual surgery itself and it really doesn't happen in just a few weeks or even 8 weeks.

It's a long process that takes time and it really is important to increase activity very slowly or the risk of further injury to the weakened muscles, the nerves or even further injury to the spine is very likely.

Exercise to keep the core muscles strong becomes a permanent part of a spinal surgery patient's life, no matter how the surgery is done, for the rest of their lives.

I'm reminded of what my spine surgeon said to me before I was discharged from the hospital. He knew me well and how eager I was to return to my life and do what I had been doing before the sudden onset of my spinal problems.
I must admit though, that I headed his advise and warning for quite some time, but then suffered the consequences of not listening to him. Something I will never do again.

he told me the following

"remember that it takes time to recover from spinal surgery, regardless of how it is done. It is a very slow process and patience will be your worst enemy, but must be accepted. Full recovery can take from 6-12 months, in more complicated surgeries, even longer. The key is to be patient, slow increase in activity. Slow start to physical therapy and slowly increase the tolerance and function. You will need to take millions of little steps to reach the goal of return to full activity. It's kind of like trying to teach your kids to save their pennies. Slowly they learn that the pennies add up to a nickel, a dime, a quarter and before long a dollar and so on. Over doing and being impatient are your biggest enemies and you will have to constantly fight them, but you must if you want to return to as much function as possible.
Remember that your spinal problem did not occur over night. It was not caused by some massive injury. It was a process that took many years to reach the level that it had before surgery. You can not expect to return to normal overnight. Your body wasn't built in a day, and it won't heal in a day or a week, a month or even 8 weeks. It will take time, lots of time to regain the strength and function in the muscles and have the nerves function again. You will have lots of bad days and you will have lots of good days. You may have the nerve pain return for some time as they start to heal. You may find that you won't have all the muscle strength return. Only time and PT will tell you that.
What you have to remember is that "I" the doctor have done my job and done all that I can do to repair the spinal problem you had. The rest is up to "you", the patient. Take my advise, work with the physical therapist, do all that you are told to do and never forget that core muscle exercises are a permanent part of your life as soon as you start PT."

Not only was that said to me by my spinal surgeon, but it is given to all his patients on their discharge, printed on a fancy piece of paper to keep and remind you of on a daily basis.

Though my doctor does do traditional open back spinal surgery, including fusions, he also does many, many endoscopic spinal surgeries as well. My situation was originally going to be endoscopic until complications happened the night before surgery that warranted doing an open incision in the event that further surgery was needed instead of just a simple laminotomy.

In all that I have said, what I was trying to get at is this.

Spinal surgery, regardless of how it is done, takes quite a long time to fully recover from, lots of good quality physical therapy and lots and lots of patience.

I wish that the Laser surgery sites where far more detailed in what they mean when they say "short recuperation" as I believe they mean from the actual entry site to the surgical area and not the actual total recovery from surgery itself.

Please those of you that are going to the Laser surgery facilities, try and remember that and take plenty of time to fully recover, do physical therapy and do not return to work at a very quick rate.

I'm afraid you are setting yourselves up for further injury or setback if you do.

Just my thoughts and opinions

Fran

Good Morning Fran,

No Fran, it is not just your thoughts. You have given the advice and wisdom each one of us needs to truly "hear" and accept.

Fran, of all the posts on this thread yours ranks amoung the very most important.

Back in the 80s I had one of the first arthroscopic knee surgeries. Even a rep from the company whose instruments were being used was there for the surgery.

Only two or three 1/4" incisions were made. My doctor commented after the surgery that had it not been for the ability of the new device to enable him to "see" all over my knee, he would have missed some fragments. With the new technique he was able to "zap" those small fragments with very minimual "intrusion".

Fran, I left that day as an outpatient on crutches. By the next day he wanted me to be moving about with crutches and by the 3rd day to be walking slowly about without crutches. Within a week I felt good as new.

And after that first week I had an appointment to see my surgeon. His lasting remarks and advice to me was - "This is a fantastic surgical tool which is very minimually invasive. HOWEVER, the down side is that patients "think" they are good as new after a couple of weeks. They think they can do everything they did before. He told me that was the biggest misconception. That even though you feel fine your body isn't even close to being recovered. That it takes months (just as you have so wisely stated).

PATIENCE - Fran, you are RIGHT ON!!! We Americans especially have this erromeous terrible "culture" that everything has to be "NOW". That is not how it is with our bodies as you stated SOOOOoooo very well. It does take a LONG time for the body to recover from the actual surgery site. Rush it and you pay for it. Be kind and patient with your body's slow recovery process and you will be rewarded.

Again Fran, a SUPERB post. I truly hope people "hear" the wisdom that you have spoken.

THANKS!!!!

RichT

Fran,

I enjoyed reading your post. I agree that surgery IS surgery, no matter what doc or facility you go to. My experiences with my surgeries have taught me that.

I personally saw both sides of the coin. Some spoke of instant healing and others warned me to take it real slow. I think it's up to the person to take all the info in and interpret it appropriately.

I am almost 5 months out and still have to take it really slowly. I have PT 3x/wk and will go for as long as I can before my insurance stops paying.
And even then, will do everything I can on my own for the rest of my life! I make my vow here!

Patience is definitely key, I agree! A difficult thing for sure, these days especially when everything we want is at our fingertips (as Rich mentioned), but a must!

For a while I was praying for healing until I realized that God is already healing me. Now I pray for patience as I wait!

Fran, in the discharge letter you received, something jumped out at me and made me feel sooo much better:

"You may have the nerve pain return for some time as they start to heal."

I do still get random pains in my legs and they're sporadic. Reading the above statement made me feel better about it. Even though I'm almost 5 months out, my nerves are still healing and will be for some time!

Thanks for brightening my day!

Best wishes and God bless,
Carrianne

Hello Carrianne,

About the length of time it takes nerves to heal.

That reminded me of when a dog ripped up my hands years ago. There was no muscle tendon damage thank goodness. The wounds healed within about a month. Some of my fingers and thumb were numb because of the damage to the nerves. It took almost a year for the nerves to be healed/rejoined and the numbness in my fingers to be gone.

How long for nerves to heal depends on various factors I'm sure. The good Lord will heal them as time goes by.

Take care.

RichT

In response to what Fran, Rich and Carriane have posted, I can only say to those who are reading this Forum:

" For him who has ears, let him hear."

Marie B.

Hello Marie,

Thank you for your compliment from the highest order.

RichT

tjh,

It does sound like your husband has returned to work sooner than he should have, and it could be possible that the first surgery he had is fine but it has now caused the other area to have a problem.

I would suggest that the first thing he does is to stop working for now. I know that is easier said than done. I understand the loss of income, how stubborn a man can be and their macho thought process. I have one of those for a husband too.
I love him dearly, but I have my moments where the kids old baseball bats are calling me to just hit him over the head with one.

But the truth be told, if he he continues with pain like he has, he will be out of work an possibly for a much longer time and it could also mean more surgery.

Is your husband doing and physical therapy? Has he been doing any exercises to keep his core muscles strong?

If he has not been going to physical therapy, I would strongly suggest that he get an order for physical therapy, have the PT evaluate and treat him for core strengthening exercises.
If he has been going and stopped, then he should return and be evaluated and start again.

At 8 weeks post op, he should not be sitting, standing etc in any one position for more than 30 minutes without changing position and resting.

You didn't mention, at least that I recall, what type of surgery your husband had, but 8 weeks is far from a long time to recover.

Another suggestion, have your husband stand in a shower and let the water soak on the are that is hurting and where the pain originates from. He should try that for about 10 minutes. Then after he's dried off from the shower, he could do some very gentle core stretches.

He can also use moist heat during the day to areas that are hurting him.

Has he tried any anti-inflammatory meds for the pain. Ibuprofen i.e. advil or motrin to help ease the pain? or extra strength tylenol?

It may also be that the muscles in his back and leg are still very weak and he has simply pulled the muscles. Again, PT might very well help ease this problem.
Also if he is not moving properly, and we all need to learn to move and do things correctly after spinal surgery, that in it self could be the problem that is causing the pain.

Again, though, I really believe that your husband went back to work far too soon after surgery and is now feeling the results.
He needs more time to recover, a good PT program to evaluate what is going on now and core exercises to do. They are a permanent part of life post spinal surgery of any kind, regardless of how the surgery was performed or what the surgery was for.

Fran

tjh,

It does sound like your husband has returned to work sooner than he should have, and it could be possible that the first surgery he had is fine but it has now caused the other area to have a problem.

I would suggest that the first thing he does is to stop working for now. I know that is easier said than done. I understand the loss of income, how stubborn a man can be and their macho thought process. I have one of those for a husband too.
I love him dearly, but I have my moments where the kids old baseball bats are calling me to just hit him over the head with one.

But the truth be told, if he he continues with pain like he has, he will be out of work an possibly for a much longer time and it could also mean more surgery.

Is your husband doing and physical therapy? Has he been doing any exercises to keep his core muscles strong?

If he has not been going to physical therapy, I would strongly suggest that he get an order for physical therapy, have the PT evaluate and treat him for core strengthening exercises.
If he has been going and stopped, then he should return and be evaluated and start again.

At 8 weeks post op, he should not be sitting, standing etc in any one position for more than 30 minutes without changing position and resting.

You didn't mention, at least that I recall, what type of surgery your husband had, but 8 weeks is far from a long time to recover.

Another suggestion, have your husband stand in a shower and let the water soak on the are that is hurting and where the pain originates from. He should try that for about 10 minutes. Then after he's dried off from the shower, he could do some very gentle core stretches.

He can also use moist heat during the day to areas that are hurting him.

Has he tried any anti-inflammatory meds for the pain. Ibuprofen i.e. advil or motrin to help ease the pain? or extra strength tylenol?

It may also be that the muscles in his back and leg are still very weak and he has simply pulled the muscles. Again, PT might very well help ease this problem.
Also if he is not moving properly, and we all need to learn to move and do things correctly after spinal surgery, that in it self could be the problem that is causing the pain.

Again, though, I really believe that your husband went back to work far too soon after surgery and is now feeling the results.
He needs more time to recover, a good PT program to evaluate what is going on now and core exercises to do. They are a permanent part of life post spinal surgery of any kind, regardless of how the surgery was performed or what the surgery was for.

Fran

So here is the way to make the rice sock to provide moist heat.


Take a long cotton tube sock or mostly cotton tube sock and fill it about 1/2 or more full of the cheapest white rice you can buy.

DO NOT USE INSTANT RICE, IT WILL EXPLODE IN A MICROWAVE OVEN !!!!!!

AND ALSO DO NOT USE A SOCK THAT IS ALL NYLON OR ACETATE, IT WILL MELT IN THE MICROWAVE.


Tie a knot in the sock to hold the rice in the sock. Place in microwave and heat for 90 seconds. take out and wrap in a hand towel and place where you need the moist heat.


You can also use a small baby pillow for the sock. just use stick on strips of velcro that you can buy by the yard in the craft or fabric stores. It self sticks on material. Fill with the rice and press closed with the velcro. wrap in a towel and use the same as the sock.


Fran

Hi Rich! I hope that all is well with you and you're having a great morning!
Wow, sounds like you really got it from that dog. That must have been awful! I'm sorry you had to go through that. I got bit when I was little and I've been a little stand-offish from dogs ever since.

My mother-in-law's doctor told her nerves only heal 1/4" a month. Something to think of with after surgery pains.

Hope you have a good day Rich!
Best wishes and God bless,
Carrianne