Laser Spine Surgery

Thanks, and yes, soon I'd love to get your phone # and give you a call. So glad that you are on the mends.

Happy holidays!

gail

What is Manual Therapy? Are those the exercises that you don't do on machines eg. Treadmill, Cycling?

You still have back stiffness. Rats! I was hoping that would not continue after 2 or 3 months. I have to say that walking is the only thing I find that relieves back stiffness. Sitting in a chair ..no mater if it is an upright, or recliner... and no matter the length of time, and then getting up, I immediately feel stiffness. Then I take another trip to the tread mill and walk 15 min. at a slow pace of 2 and the stiffness will go away. Tylenol does not take stiffness away either. I don't feel stiffness after a night's sleep either, but the first time I sit down eg. for breakfast, I feel stiffness. It doesn't feel like the stiffnes is in the spine but in the muscles on the side of the spine. Since my surgery was Min. Invasive, there was no muscle cutting, but they do pull the muscles away from the spine to get to the vertebrae.

I guess they are unhappy about having been moved so abruptly and find upon their return they don't have the same bone shape to go back to.

As much as we think we know and study the body, it still has a mind of its own.

Marie B.

Marie,

If I didn't remember my posts, I'd say your post was written by me! It seems we both have the same kinds of post op stiffness. I also feel it on each side of the vertebrae, but it's a strange feeling that I can't quite describe. It doesn't just feel like I need to stretch; it feels very "open." Does that make sense?

I also get lots of relief from walking. I'm very grateful that even when my back was at its worse, I could still get my cardio in. That's really the one thing that provided (and still provides) the most relief. After surgery I was walking 60 minutes/day. At 3 months out, I began the eliptical again (w/ doc's permission of course) and now split the hour between that and the treadmill.

I think the key is keeping those muscles warm! Speaking of, I just got a portable moist heating pad and recommend it! It's called Thermibeads. Just warm it in the microwave for 45 seconds and it velcros around your waist (or wherever else you need relief). It has head activated beads that release moisture for up to 30 minutes. It's great because you don't have to worry about a plug or it staying on for too long. Try it, it may help you with your stiffness!

I am very happy that your surgery is such a success and that your muscle wasn't cut either. It sure helps with the recovery!!

Best wishes, God bless, and Merry Christmas!!
Carrianne

Hi everyone! I know I just gave a PT update on Wednesday, but today was completely different so thought I'd give another one.

I still have some achiness in the outside of my legs, just underneath my glutes (when I sit too long). My physical therapist felt around and I nearly wanted to run away from her it was so tender. Apparently the sciatic nerve runs right along the paraformis muscle and mine is extremely tight, causing pain when touched. She gave me an ultrasound on each side and worked on it a bit (aka: dug into me). She said it's definitely something we can fix together and not a reason to jump into more surgery! MUSIC TO MY EARS! As painful as it is, that is an extremely thick muscle and hence more difficult to work the kinks out.

Oh, Marie,
I forgot to tell you about manual therapy. From spine-health,

Manual physical therapy is a specialized form of physical therapy delivered with the hands as opposed to a device or machine. In manual therapy, practitioners use their hands to put pressure on muscle tissue and manipulate joints in an attempt to decrease back pain caused by muscle spasm, muscle tension and joint dysfunction.

Sounds like massage therapy to me. But I am NOT getting "manipulated."

Will keep you all updated!

Merry Christmas and God bless,
Carrianne

Hello Carrianne,

I like Marie was curious what "manual therapy" is. Thanks for the explanation. My physical therapist has always used the "manual therapy". Oh yes, I can relate to the "dug into me". And so can my wife. I would think my therapist's thumbs would hurt at the end of the day. She REALLY digs her thumbs into my knoted up muscle(s). But it does work.

For my rotator cuff tear I was also on the mechanical equipment and that helped too. She also had me on the equipment for my back, however, my ole knee and shoulder did not like that, so I only get the manual therapy. Now if she would just warm her hands up before she started to massage my knoted up muscles all would be fine. Good grief, she has the COLDEST hands. No complaints though, she has helped me a lot.

Carrianne, I hope that your physical therapy will also help loosen things up for you. YES, the ultrasound is GREAT.

Wish you a most wonderful Christmas and may the New Year be all you wish it to be.

RichT

Hi Rich, Carriane...Marie, Fran and others I haven't talked to for a while. Have been busy running back and forth with husband who had to have radiation but all that is finished...we are in Florida now and I have an app't at LSI for surgery on Jan. 16. (Please say a prayer for me because if this doesn't work then I will have reached the end of anything humanly possible). I have talked to isis188 on the other Laser Spine forum (I think you know who she is, Fran)..anyhow she is having surgery at LSI on Jan. 10 so we are hoping to meet up. We are both really excited about this and looking for positive results.

I am so far behind reading these posts...will have to take a few hours and play catch up.

To each and everyone of the spineys on this forum I wish you a very blessed and Joyful Christmas and Happy New Year in 2008.
Mare

Hello Mare,

WOW, what a pleasant surprise to see your post.

I truly hope and pray that the physicans at LSI will be able to greatly reduce the pain that you have. And that your recovery goes well.

May I ask how your husband is doing since his radiation treatments? Both he and you have been through a lot I know.

May this Christmas be a very special day for you and your family as you remember and celebrate the birth of Christ.

My thoughts and prayers are and will be with you, especially on January 16th.

RichT

One of the reasons I was turning my nose up at PT is that for some reason in my little town, the PT people do not do hands on stuff. I'm inclined to believe it is the way they are trained....specialities. This one tells you how to use the treadmill or do the cycle. Others direct you how to use stretch rubberbands and the small dumbells. They then record on paper how many times you did what on paper.
No one uses hands on the body muscles. I learned about the situation when I was having a neck-sholder problem and the exercises the PT gave me were the same that I used when I had a rotator cuff tear caused by a bone spur. The exercises actually made my problem worse. But they wouldn't use any type of hands on muscle massage or muscle manipulation. To get any hands on type muscle manipulation or massage, I would have to go to a neuro-nuscular therapist and she is not allowed to use Ultra-sound.

That means one then has the option of going to chiropractor to get the ultra-sound but you don't get the hands on muscle manipulation that you can get at a neuro-muscle therapist but you do get a TENS Unit plus the charge for a visit can be $200 and above..
At this point when my surgeon gives me an RX for PT, I won't know where the heck to go to get all that you speak of Carrianne. You aren't going to Bonati for this are you? Is your PT a private one or one that works with a group eg. Concord Therapy.
And I still have to take Tylenol E-xtra Strength to keep a buning ache away from my hip muscle. If I don't the ache will wake me up in the middle of the night and I have to go take the pills.

Marie B.



I am assuming

Hello Marie,

Oh boy, I know where I'd tell your therapists to go, and it ain't on a cruise. Marie, that is just plain laziness on their part.

A little story if I may. The wonderful young lady who is my therapist needed to help her parents move to another state, so she was gone for a week. I was asigned to a new therapist. I could not believe it!!!! She sat on a chair and just said do this or do that and then she marked down how many times I did this or that. I was scheduled to have her again the end of the week. NO WAY!!! I didn't need to have some lazy Blank like that so I cancelled my next appointment with her.

Thank goodness the following week my regular therapist was back. In as proper a way I could, I told her what the Blank did/didn't do. She couldn't believe it.

My therapist has a fantastic magic touch. She knows how far to stretch and move my legs and body. Enough so I get a good stretch, but she doesn't cross the line to pain. And when needed, she gets up on the table to go through the stretches, etc. She really works at it. The last time I saw her she said she had been invited to give a PT lab course at a local college. Let me tell you her students will LEARN how to do things properly. No goofing off with that young lady.

Marie, may I suggest that after Christmas you talk to your doctor about your displeasure with your current therapists. AND that you want a list of therapy centers where they get off their butts and do the stretches on you. Then go to the yellow pages and make some calls to your local PT centers. Tell them you want to come in and talk with them about what they do and how they do things. You want to see their facilities and to observe the therapists in action (or inaction be that the case).

There is no reason to accept anything less than what I am getting. Oh perhaps one thing - you may prefer a fellow. LOL

Thanks for your kind Christmas wishes. May yours be wonderful with very gentle falling snow. And most of all continuing positive recovery.

RichT

My husband is doing very well...the effects of the radiation seem to be receding and we are praying that this will be the end of it and no surgery will be required when we go for his checkup in April.

Will let you know how things go at LSI. Have talked to a lot of people who all seem to know someone who has had Laser Spine Surgery and except for very rare cases..all have been helped immensely.

Mare

Hello Mare,

Thanks for the good news.

Good news that your husband is doing well since his radiation treats. My prayers are with him that his checkup in April will also be good news.

Good news that of the many people you have spoken to that have had laser spine surgery most have been helped immensely. And so I pray it will be for you Mare.

Have a Merry Christmas!!!

RichT

Hi everyone!

Marie: pls. refresh my memory . . . before your surgery, was it easier for you to sit or walk? Maybe with all the posts and my crazy mind, I've confused or recombined symptoms . . .

I can sit much, much longer than I can ever walk. I have severe stenosis on L4/5 and my facets are also part of the problem. Standing for more than 3-5 minutes is a thing of the past. My right leg is dragging and I cannot walk on my toes with my right foot. I think they call this drop foot. In fact bending forward from the waist seems to open up the back and bring me relief. I cannot for the life of me understand with all the medical technology, why they can't just "scrape out" the stenosis, or build up, without removing bones. It makes sense that removal of bone tissue would encourage instability. Someone needs to invent an instrument that can negotiate the intricate netword of that spinal column . . . something like a roter rooter job! Enough for my ignorance . . .

My most favorite sitting position is on my recliner in a sideways, almost fetal position with my head rested on the left armrest, like a curled up cat. My family doesn't know how I can even endure sitting in this position considering my standing and walking issues. I think they might secretly think, my problems are more mental than physical!! Oh well.

I've never been officially diagnosed with spondy, although a second consult measured some type of overlap and he indicated "slippage." I'm sure he's more on the money. I can't get a good mental picture, even with much talk about why I get relief when I sit and can't walk or stand. Most of my friends who have had min. invasive or fusion surgeries had the opposite. That's why I was amazed to find you had the same issues. Marie, Pls. don't tell me all these months, I've been even more confused . . .

Rich: I'm happy with a 3-4. That's w/o meds. I'm about due for another injection. I know this masks symptoms and pain. I need to do more research as to whether this is not creating more of a problem down the road. I have increased foot and leg cramps, especially in my right leg. My poor little peds get so twisted that it looks like rigormortise had set in, then in what seems like minutes (but it's seconds, excrutiating seconds) . . . it's gone. My right leg gives out, sometimes w/o notice. Since my last shot, I've fallen three times, when I have to take a step up with my right leg. This has happened all within the last month, so that's how I gauge when I need a cortisone boost.

Beachgal, I too, am an educator and hope to something this next summer. In the meantime, everyone have a blessed holiday. I'm thankful for what I have and that includes this thread and the wonderful "ears" on it!! It took me about 15 min. to post this, so let's see if it gets through!!
Take care.
C

M: I've gained twenty pounds from my sedentary life over the past 2 years, from not exercising, but I guess I'm counting my blessings that I still fit in my recliner!!! Ha!

Merry Christmas to all and to all we have a better and healthier New Year.

I will post responses to some threads over the next few days. As for now, I am well enough to work 2 12 hour shifts at the hospital, covering ER pediatric psyche problems, which are abundant on Christmas Eve and Day.

Since my family and I don't celebrate Christmas, this give one additional person the opportunity to spend Christmas Eve and Day with their families.


So turn up the sound on your computer and enjoy this card

http:/ /www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=E R13610552


And when you have a chance, relax and view some beautiful samples of some of the best cards of all types I have ever seen

http://www.jacquielaws on.com/thecards.asp


Fran

Hello Carol,

Be comforted knowing God's gift to us with his son's birth on Christmas.

Carol, considering what you have shared with us regarding your pain, and especially the "foot drop", PLEASE don't delay in making an appointment to see your spinal doctor. Call tomorrow morning and hopefully his office will be open. Tell them what you have told us. They need to know the seriousness of your situation. Push for the earliest appointment you can get. All other things are secondary. That includes presentations, conventions, etc. You know all that standing and sitting has not been good for your back.

Regading - "I'm about due for another injection. I know this masks symptoms and pain. " If I may kindly make a "correction". An epidural injection containing a corticosteriod such as Kenalog does NOT mask the symptoms of pain. Rather, Kenalog reduces the inflammation in a specific area and with the reduction of the inflammation the pain should also be reduced. Of course if an epidural block is given that contains an opiate then the pain nerve is "silenced" though the cause of the pain is not addressed. I hope that makes a bit of sense. Spineys, if I have erred, do correct me.

For me standing, and sitting in uncomfortable chairs will kill my back in a matter of 2-3 minutes. Those are NO NOs for me. And yet (thankfully) walking (fast), bending, twisting, etc. are fine. I'll live with the No NO's as long as I can dig holes in the garden. Man, I can't wait for Spring.

Carol, my thoughts and prayers are with you. Please do continue to let us know how you are doing.

RichT

Hello Fran,

You are one very speccial lady!!!! Giving of yourself so that others may celebrate their religious belief. What a wonderful example you will be setting. Your example of understanding and giving and love is truly as God wishes us all to do. WONDERFUL!!!

What a neat Christmas card. I guess I passed the IQ puzzle test to make it work. lol

Take care.

RichT

Carol. When I had stenosis, and when I would not take some type of med like Ultracet and Advil, in one major dose, I could not stand, I could not walk, and I could not climb steps. I went that way for a year and I was in that condition even with lumbar injections and Transforaminal injections. I spent a great deal of time in my recliner. My spinal problem was ruining my daily life. (It is still occupying a lot of my present time, but not in the same way.)
Post surgery, I somewhat of a different problem. My spine and left hip are unhappy when I sit too long. I walk and walk and move about the house. Post OP surgery, particularly with Fusion you are told to not sit more then 20 min. at a time. I found 20 min. too much time. I began resting on my bed for the min. when I got tired, and I would take a refreshing nap and then my body was ready for another round of walking and doing things about the house.

I do not regret having my Min. Invasive Surgery. If this condition was going to happen to me, I do wish I could have been a wee bit younger because there is a lot of time required for healing. You are not going to up and running immediately. By saying that, I mean you will not feel normal like nothing ever happened to you.

When I hear Rich talk and what he can do, I can understand why he is not running to his spinal surgeon. He talks about his running. Ye gads! My legs would not let me stand and walk let alone walk very fast. Lifting things brought me to my knees.

The symptoms that you are now describing are exactly the symptoms that I suspected would be the next step for me if I continued to try to go without surgery and I knew from certain sensations in between my legs that I could get myself into real trouble if I continued to listen to my PM MD alone and just do meds. When he saw my distress at my last visit, he is the one who provided me the name of my spinal surgeon.

Please listen to Rich. Carol, your symptoms in your leg is indicating the stenosis is causing real trouble with your nerves. I don't know when your last MRI was taken but those facets could be degenerating to the point you have really a lot of compression on them.

It was Fran who finally went into the hospital under emergency conditions and she had been dragging one of her legs for a while before the emergency forced her to deal with surgery. Fran has been extremely helpful to me especially now that I am in the Post Op stages.

I know you had hoped to wait until the summer before you checked out the laser centers. You may not be given that chance if you don't take immediate steps. The other thing I have to say, Carol is I am glad I stayed close to home for my surgery. That being a doctor and a hospital over an hour away from my home via Interstate highways into the big city of Cleveland. When I would have spasms I thought for sure I would be back into the hospital. Fortunately for me the surgeon and his nurse worked by Fed Ex perscriptions and what ever I needed. I don't know how things are when you don't live even in the same state as the place you would be having the surgery and have problems. We don't hear an awful lot from post op people. In fact, I'm beginning to believe JoeBob was really the exception to the rule in his recovery period.

I hope you did not spend all of your time only researching the laser centers all the while hoping they would be your answer. Get on the internet and look at spinal surgeons (maybe you already have one) who have been doing Minimally Invasive Surgery for a long time. Go to one and make sure he knows your complete history and has a record of your condition. That surgeon may be the one who actually does your surgery instead of the laser people. Make sure he is a superlative surgeon.

You obviously are having a major episode at present. Know that those episodes will increase in number and possibly get worse.
Don't mean to scare you, but don't be afraid of the surgery. When you need it, you need it.

Oh and as far as spondy is concerned. Get an Extension/Flexion X-Ray to verify the spondy and the degree of slippage. If it is a low degree of slippage, talk Fusion Insitu (No rods etc.) to the surgeon. If it is only at the L4 & L5 level it can be done without rods, and the loss of flexibility will not be extensive as time passes.

Girl, your time for decision making is upon you. Stay in touch and Fran and I will talk you through anything that comes your way.

God Bless.

Marie B.

Carol, Oh my goodness, oh my, you are having some serious problems and I have to agree with Marie, it doesn't sound like you can wait till June.

Someone up there had me leave my computer on and when I went to turn it off, I saw your post and have read and reread it several times.

So, in response, Carol, you are dealing with some serious nerve compression problems and it sounds like it has been going on for quite a number of months and maybe years. Actually it has been years that the nerves have been compressed. It is only when the compression becomes severe that we begin to feel the pain and nerve problems.

Your description of your self sounds identical to me before I had surgery, so I understand that you are not having a fun time with it.

You may or may not have foot drop right now. It sounds more like the main and nerve compression has become so bad that you are just unable to use your leg and thus just drag it. You inability to stand on your toes is all part of moderate to severe L4,L5,S1 spinal stenosis, not always foot drop. It can be the beginning of it though.

I'm assuming you are referring to you toes when you talk about the "peds". that sounds like the nerves in the bottom of your foot have now become affected and you may very well be talking about tarsal tunnel syndrome, which is actually carpal tunnel of the foot; and yes, that pain may only last a few seconds but it is some of the worst I have ever felt as well.
That can be a complication of suffering with spinal stenosis for so long and not walking correctly and it can be come a "side affect" of surgical correction of the stenosis and the feet having to learn to walk correctly again after the surgery. That way I know well, as I had that happen to me after surgery.
Your symptoms with the toes are classic and will not get better until the stenosis is corrected and you have PT for both your spine after surgery and your feet, along with custom orthotics and good walking shoes.

The reason you are more comfortable in the curled up position in your chair is classic response to spinal stenosis. By sitting this way or bending over when you stand and hold on to a shopping cart, is that it provides more space in the spinal column and the vertebrae, hence there is some relief of the pressure on the nerves.

The fact that your right leg is giving out on you w/o notice and you are falling is, by far, a very serious sign that your stenosis is progressing and not only causing further compression on the nerves, but may in fact, be causing permanent damage to the nerves, and that can become worse without relieving the compression.

ESI don't really mask symptoms and pain as long as a steroid is used. It helps to decrease the inflammation with the nerves. By decreasing the inflammation, the nerves become less swollen and inflamed. What it doesn't do is correct the stenosis. Only surgery will do that.

Are you creating more of a problem down the road by continuing to get the ESI? Yes, in that you are doing nothing to correct the problem, only relieving some of the symptoms on a temporary basis, but you are still leaving the nerves compressed. Yes with that continued compression on the nerves, it is possible to develop permanent damage to the nerves. Yes, in that over time, it is possible to build up a tolerance to the meds used in the ESI and they will no longer help you or help you to the degree that they have in the past. Yes, in that, every time you have an ESI, you are involved with risks of complications and side affects. Those side affects can build up in the body over time and really create havoc in you body. Yes, for every year that goes by and you do not have surgery for the stenosis, you become a year older. A year older that makes surgery just a little bit more difficult to have and recover from, simply because you are a year older. And Carol, you said you are an educator, ESI is using steroids and those steroids stay in your body or several months. It does lower your resistance to infection and being a teacher, you are exposed to far more germs from the kids than the rest of us are.
Those injections also can cause elevated blood pressure, temporary loss of bladder and/or bowel function, vision problems, increased blood sugar levels and many other things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not against ESI at all. I had 3 of them before my surgery and they had no real affect on me, no relief of pain. 24 hours on the first one was not relief, it was the lidocaine not the steroid. The second did nothing and the 3rd was pure torture in the amount of pain it caused.
I did recently, the week before thanksgiving, have a selective nerve block done on the nerve of the L3 Disc and it was quite successful, though I probably shouldn't say that, it might jinx me. (will explain about the disc in another post, but don't ask me about 80 year old drivers that shouldn't be driving at all).

Carol, I know that you have wanted to do laser spine surgery and have been investigating it and maybe other types of surgery for quite a long time. And I will admit I have many doubts about the laser surgery.

But my concern now is for you, not the types of spinal surgery. You have been looking into this far too long and your symptoms have become far to serious to just sit back and continue to get ESI and investigate further and wait till summer to do something about it and make a decision.

You now really need to come to terms with the fact that you need surgery and really can't put it off. These are serious symptoms that you are suffering, sounds like they are getting worse by the day and at the rate they are progressing and you have described, you will be in my shoes within in a short period of time. total loss of bladder control and an emergency surgery happening to you without being able to decide on a doctor and what surgery will be done.

When I made my decision to have surgery, it was easy. I couldn't take the pain any more and the choice was surgery or suicide. The problem was who was going to do it and what type of surgery would it be.
I wasn't an emergency in the eyes of any doctor at that point other than I couldn't take the pain any more.
The unfortunate thing was I didn't listen carefully to my doctor about what he was going to do. All I heard was general anesthesia, open surgery. I didn't hear the rest, minimally invasive, 1 inch incision, partial laminotomy, and release of the nerves in the lateral articulate.
I didn't want general, wanted to be awake, endoscopic and all the rest.

I had several other opinions, having one at that point was required by my surgeon before he would operate, and believe me, one opinion was worse than the other. These docs where from the most prestigious hospitals in Boston MA. Think mass general, brigham and womens, new england Baptist, Beth Israel/Deaconess. The docs where so bad, I wouldn't take my cat to them and believe me, my cat is part of the family and gets better care from the vet than these docs offered and seemed to have knowledge of.

I also have the advantage of medical knowledge and radiologists and docs outside these hospitals to talk with.

My MRI was read by several other radiologists besides the original and my spinal surgeon, along with the head of orthopedic surgery and sports medicine at children's hospital in Boston. Both of them very close friends of mine since I was a teen. The sports medicine doc there Lyle Micheli is the founder of the Sports medicine specialty that is now recognized.

I went from difficulty walking and horrible pain to the position you are in right now with your pain in a matter of 5 weeks. And the night before my scheduled surgery, I lost total bladder control. At that point you have between 24-48 hours to have surgery and get the pressure off the nerves before it's to late and the bladder loss is permanent. I was lucky that my surgery was scheduled when it was.

They all agreed with my original spinal surgeon, who is a sports medicine orthopedic spinal surgeon, and they told me that is the best kind of doctor to use as well as the best in his field and they would use him to do surgery on themselves. They also said they would use no other kind of spinal doctor but a sports medicine orthopedic spinal doctor.

So I'm going to encourage you to find yourself an sports medicine orthopedic surgeon that specializes in spines and see him/her. Get a new MRI and get evaluated for your spinal stenosis and possible spondy. Instead of continuing to investigate and wait till summer to do something about it. It could very well be too late.

A sports medicine ortho spine doc, does minimally invasive surgery. Yes, it's open surgery and yes, it is usually under general anesthesia. But they will only cut as much as is necessary.

As Marie said and I will agree with her, it sounds like you have waited long enough, maybe too long and you are decreasing your options as to what you may or may not have to have done, because of the wait.

You aren't even sure if you have spondy or not. You may find that you don't, but for every day that you wait, you put the risk of permanent damage to your nerves at more and more risk, and your symptoms are very, very severe.

Please Carol, don't wait any longer, at the very least, get a full diagnosis and updated tests to see what is and isn't going on. At least then, you will know exactly what you are dealing with and not wonder is it just severe stenosis or is it spondy too. What are my options, what is being suggested, does it make sense.

Sometims, waiting is the worst thing you can do, sometimes it isn't. it does sound like, in your case, waiting has been too long and it's time to take action.

Believe me, Marie and I both know how scary spinal surgery is, and though her surgery was far more extensive than mine, both of us have no regrets in having open spinal surgery done.

Like any other surgery, when it is needed, it is the best thing in the world. And this is from someone whose front body looks more like a road map than a body, from all the surgeries I've had.

Thanks to a little old lady who should never have been driving, the back side of my body is going to start looking like a road map too, as I will no doubt be facing more spinal surgery on the L3 nerves of the disc in the new year.
Do I want it no, will continued nerve blocks help, yes, but I don't want to continue having them for the rest of my life. I want the problem corrected and be on with my life.

Good luck and Merry Christmas. Let the new year bring you some answers to what is going on and a rapid decision on what to do

Fran

Hello Carol,

You have received excellent truly heart felt words of advice and wisdom from Marie and Fran. PLEASE "hear" what they are both saying. Carol, it is time to put your body first, not last.

May this Christmas start you down the right road to be able to do the things you enjoy and want to do so much. Yes, there will be a delay with surgery and recovery, however Carol, without surgery I am truly concerned that you will not be able to do the things you enjoy.

My thoughts and prayers are with you at this difficult time.

RichT

Hello Everyone,

It is now Christmas Eve day. A time for Christians to prepare in the celebration of Christ's birth. That is what Christmas is all about.

As I "checked in" this morning I noticed that our amazing spiney family has sent 718 posts of questions, concerns, advice, encouragement, surgery updates, and prayers. How does one adequately describe the incredible wonderful BOND that our spiney family has?

And then I think of all those who have been reading our communications, and hopefully learning with us. There has now been 20188 "views". Wonderful!!!

God's blessing to all.

RichT