Hello Innovator,

Do I recall correctly that you and your son will be off to Florida in a few days or is it the first of next week? His first surgery is on the 12th as I remember.

May all your hopes and prayers for a successful surgery and recovery become reality.

RichT

RichT:

You are correct. We will leave tonight and drive from Arkansas to Florida.
First appt is Friday for MRIs and some other testing.
First surgery if approved for surgery is Dec 12th.

Innovator54

Hello Innovator,

WOW, I wrote my above post just in time.

May your son handle the long drive well. I'm sure you are all looking forward to being in Florida. And I'm sure Carriaane is looking forward to meeting everyone of you.

Take care. Thoughts and prayers are alwyas there.

RichT

Hi everyone!

I made it through week 1 of physical therapy. I don't feel any different, really, but didn't expect to after just 3 visits. They worked entirely on my legs which are pretty weak, so that seems like a great place to start! Get the strength back first, then go from there! I'll be sure to keep you all updated!

I hope you are all doing well! Have a great weekend and don't go thinking you're ok to lift a Christmas tree!! hee hee

Best wishes and God bless,
Carrianne

Hi all Spiney Friends! At my home we are getting ready to celebrate our Christmas Feast Day. Everything is decorated now except I wait to do the tree about 4 or 5 days before Christmas.

It is 4 weeks past surgery and I am doing great. I am taking Tylenol Extra Strength once in the morning and once before bed. I have no pain. I do experience stiffness in the lower back if I sit too long but walking immediately gets rid of the stiffness. And at this point, the stiffness is nothing to what it was post op.

I even went out shopping yesterday and what started to be a 2 hour trip, leaving at 8:30 AM turned into a full day of walking in malls, and shopping and eating breakfast and lunch at restaurants. My husband was worried that I was overdoing for my first trip out. Actually what happened was when I got home, at 3PM, I took a nap and felt better then I had for days.
I've decided that the family is coddling me too much. And just as I was ready to do a repeat trip, the snow came and we got 5" of snow. So my
trip got cancelled because my husband was afraid that I could slip and fall. But I am ready to move.

I am thrilled that I had my surgery done even the Fusion is not as bad as I thought it might be and that it went well with no problems so far. Lucky for me, I have a treadmill and when I can't go out to walk because of the snow, I can walk in the house.

I wish I lived in Florida or at least I wish I could be a snowbird.

Carariane, I hope I never lift a Christmas tree again. When I was young, I did way too much on my own. I'll never do it again. But when I say No tree, it seems now I have grandchildren coming out of the woodwork to take up the job.

Merry Christmas to all spineys and may your surgery be as successful as mine seems to be.

Marie B.

Hello Marie,

WOW, so great to read that you are doing much better since your surgery. What a wonderful Christmas gift.

I'm also very concerned about all you are doing already. Take it easy. Remember, the body takes a long long time to heal. Much longer than we think. I'm just very concerned that you are over doing it and may cause some "damage" to what your doctor has done.

PLEASE, talk to your doctor and follow his advice on what you can do and should not do at this time.

Listen to your doctor and to those around you. Don't be foolish and push your body more than you should.

RichT

My husband had open back surgery to repair a herniated disk at L5 S1 on 10-1-07 in St. Petersburg, FL. He suffered with sciata for 2 years before having surgery. Doc told us that his pain after surgery would never get any worse than before surgery but he was re-imaged with contrast on 11-13-07 and each day his pain get increasing worse. Last friday he was scheduled to see the doc (neur surgeon) and i thought that i might need to take him to the er. He was in so much pain, couldn't walk, get out of bed, throwing up...you name it it was so terrible and hurt me so much to see him this way. So we made it to the dr appt, my husband lying in the fetal position on the table and all the doc would say is that i'm going to send you to pain mgmt. We gpt copies of his mri and it indicated that he had disk bulge with mild spinal stenois and enhacing scar tissue at the S1 nerve root. Went to FL Pain Mgmt and it was a complete joke. Next day went to another neuro for emg test (which the neur surgeon sent us to) and he even said that the scar tissue is causing the pain and needs to be removed. So yesterday i talked to the neuro surgeon and he refuses to do anything...said that we have to fail pain mgmt. So very upset, i started to research LSI. Please anyone, if you have any suggestions, thoughts or ideas... i really need help.

Thanks so much for listening,
Angela

My husband had open back surgery to repair a herniated disk at L5 S1 on 10-1-07 in St. Petersburg, FL. He suffered with sciata for 2 years before having surgery. Doc told us that his pain after surgery would never get any worse than before surgery but he was re-imaged with contrast on 11-13-07 and each day his pain get increasing worse. Last friday he was scheduled to see the doc (neur surgeon) and i thought that i might need to take him to the er. He was in so much pain, couldn't walk, get out of bed, throwing up...you name it it was so terrible and hurt me so much to see him this way. So we made it to the dr appt, my husband lying in the fetal position on the table and all the doc would say is that i'm going to send you to pain mgmt. We gpt copies of his mri and it indicated that he had disk bulge with mild spinal stenois and enhacing scar tissue at the S1 nerve root. Went to FL Pain Mgmt and it was a complete joke. Next day went to another neuro for emg test (which the neur surgeon sent us to) and he even said that the scar tissue is causing the pain and needs to be removed. So yesterday i talked to the neuro surgeon and he refuses to do anything...said that we have to fail pain mgmt. So very upset, i started to research LSI. Please anyone, if you have any suggestions, thoughts or ideas... i really need help.

Thanks so much for listening,
Angela

My husband had open back surgery to repair a herniated disk at L5 S1 on 10-1-07 in St. Petersburg, FL. He suffered with sciata for 2 years before having surgery. Doc told us that his pain after surgery would never get any worse than before surgery but he was re-imaged with contrast on 11-13-07 and each day his pain get increasing worse. Last friday he was scheduled to see the doc (neur surgeon) and i thought that i might need to take him to the er. He was in so much pain, couldn't walk, get out of bed, throwing up...you name it it was so terrible and hurt me so much to see him this way. So we made it to the dr appt, my husband lying in the fetal position on the table and all the doc would say is that i'm going to send you to pain mgmt. We gpt copies of his mri and it indicated that he had disk bulge with mild spinal stenois and enhacing scar tissue at the S1 nerve root. Went to FL Pain Mgmt and it was a complete joke. Next day went to another neuro for emg test (which the neur surgeon sent us to) and he even said that the scar tissue is causing the pain and needs to be removed. So yesterday i talked to the neuro surgeon and he refuses to do anything...said that we have to fail pain mgmt. So very upset, i started to research LSI. Please anyone, if you have any suggestions, thoughts or ideas... i really need help.

Thanks so much for listening,
Angela

Hello Angela,

WELCOME to this forum and especially to this thread of wonderful people.

I'm so sorry to read about what your husband has been through and abuot what you have been through with him. My thoughts and prayers are with both of you.

I commend you for researching out other options for your husband. Do take the time to read through the many posts on this thread. It is almost like a book now. You will find the experiences that others have had and are having with laser spine surgury as well as "traditional" spine surgery.

Joe and Carrianne both had their surgery at the Bonati Institute. Joe had fantastic results. Carrianne had some difficulties but is doing much better now. Others have been to LSI.

Innovator and his son just drove from Arkansas to Florida. His son will have surgery at the Bonati Institute on the 12th of this month.

Being you live in St Petersburg you are reasonably close to both LSI and Bonati.

Ask all the questions you want of those who post here. It is a great spiney family.

I wish you both the best.

RichT

Hi there, folks. I just wanted to share with you a recent experience I had. I just had minimally invasive spine surgery to decompress a massive ruptured disk at L4-5 that was seriously damaging the L5 nerve root, and even causing cauda equina syndrome. My surgery was just perfromed yesterday in Jacksonville, Florida, by neurosurgeon Javier Garcia-Bengochea, arguably the best neurosurgeon in Jacksonville. The surgery went fantastic. He accesses the spine via the same basic proceedure as Laser Spine Institute or Bonati ( a series of larger and larger tubes inserted through the back with a small laminotomy to access the disc space), but does not use an endoscope or a laser, but rather uses a microscope and conventional tools. I could not be more pleased with the results, his care or his compassion, and I highly reccommend him to anyone considering the various spine centers. His office accepted my Blue Cross/Blue Shield HMO plan, a big plus in my book. He did use general anesthesia as opposed to regional anesthesia, but he was willing to do the proceedure with either. I originally wanted to use regional, but when I weighed the benefits and risks of each (especially since I would be upside down for the surgery), I decided that general was really the safer way to go, and I have no regrets.

I hope this post can help someone. it was off this blog that I first discovered the idea of minimally invasive back surgery and so I hope I might pay back the favor to someone.

Hello Pina,

Welcome to this forum and thread.

It is GREAT that your surgery went well. It is always reassuring to know that there are "successes".

It was nice to know that this thread helped you. I'm sure that which you have shared with us will help others.

May I ask what "cauda equina syndrome" is?

I hope your recovery be as successful as your surgery.

Do stay in touch and keep us updated.

RichT

RichT,

Cauda Equina Syndrome (CES) is where there is compression of the bundle of spinal nerves that serve the lower part of the body. At around the L1 level, the spinal column as you think of it ends, and the nerves that serve the rest of the lower body, like motor function, bladder and bowel control and sensation, sexual function, etc., all come out as individual nerves that look like loose spaghetti wrapped in a membrane. CES occurs when there is pressure against this bundle or nerves. If these nerves are compressed too hard for too long you can forever lose the functions served by these nerves. In my case, my herniation was so massive that it was pushing these nerves back against the vertebrae. As the days went by, it got worse until, on Thursday, at 12:00, I had a hard time getting my anus to generate enough force to fully go to the toilet. I was terrified because I knew that CES must be treated immediately or else you may have permament problems.

I saw Dr. Garcia-Bengochea at 2:00 p.m. on Thursday and he bumped all his patients and had me in for emergency surgery at 7:30 a.m. Friday.

CES is a real surgical emergency. There is no way to handle it except surgery. If anyone has any symptoms of CES they need to see a surgeon immediately, even if the need to go to the ER right now. If anyone has CES symptoms they do not have time to weigh options. CES symptoms must be addressed surgically within 48 hours to have the best possible result. I was lucky that I already had an appointment to see my doctor when my first CES started. If I had not, I would have been in the ER getting surgery from the 'On-Call' doc who likely would have done "open back" surgery and a fusion.

My case, however, was really bad. I had a massive paracentral disc extrusion that was resulting in extreme compression of the L5 nerve root, and severe spinal stenosis. When the doc did the surgery he found disc fragments all over the place and, post-surgery, I only have about 50% of the disc left.

Luckily, I don't seem to have any significant remaining CES problems, and I am only one day post-surgery. Right now, the worst of my problems is that I still have some loss of sensation and motor weakness in my left foot and lower leg, but the doc thinks that I should get most or all of it back over time.

Seriously, anyone who has back problems should at least do some Google research on CES and make sure that they have none of the symptoms. I knew about CES before I got the first symptom, which definitely helped me help myself.

Pina3013

Hello Pina,

Thank you so very much. I fear that may be part of the reason my spinal surgeon told me about 4-1/2 months ago that I needed to have surgery within the next 6 mo. His concern at the time was that if I wait too long I could lose the use of my legs. THAT really set me back.

HOWEVER, since that "bad" day, I have talked with my Pain Management doctor. He has done amazing things with two epidural injections to reduce the inflamation and pain. Not cures I know. My PM doc told me just last week that he sees absolutely no reason that I need surgery. I also saw a second spinal surgeon and he saw no need for me to have surgery. So said another neurosurgeon. I really have very little back pain. No pain or tingling in my legs. And no other problems.

I will be seeing my spinal surgeon on the 12th. I definitely will bring up the subject of Cauda Equina Syndrome and get his thoughts. I truly want to delay surgery as long as it is wise to do so. And that is the big question!

Thanks again for your very insightful post. I do need to consider ALL factors in making the best decision.

I hope all is going well for you.

RichT

Hi,
I have not had a single once of back pain in 7 years. Back then it was just lower radiating pain from a compressed disk.

This time about 2 months ago the pain returned. I went to the Dr and got some anti-inflammatory meds and it got better.

4 weeks ago the stiffness came back and this time the pain was horrifying.
It was in my butt, my calf, and my foot was numb from the ankle to my big toe and I was unable to wiggle my toes on my right foot. (All the pain is in my right side)

I was already seeing the chiropractor but now went to my Regular Dr who diagnosed it as muscle spasm the day before thanksgiving. Friday after thanksgiving is when the disk ruptured and all the numbness and tingling started.

I saw a specialist who ordered and MRI, it showed a ruptured disk. I have my MRI Pictures and you can view them here. http://www.flickr.com/photos/37366764@N00/

The specialist referred me to this surgeon who acted as if this is no big deal. He told me the decision was mine. I thought this was serious due to the loss of motor skills in my foot and told him I wanted the surgery. He told me usually they try to let it heal on it's own or do the injections first but since I had weakness in my foot surgery is an option and to think about it. Well I was already there and didn't want to wait weeks to reschedule a visit and don’t want to put off what might give me permanent nerve damage.

I have improved some but still have days and nights that are bad.
Should I go ahead and do surgery scheduled this Tuesday or try the Injections. Dr's are to busy to get in to see them when you want to and I'd like this to go away but I feel it's not. I'm worried I could do more damage caused from surgery. I'm able to get around decently not but in pain, and I have restless nights with Sciatica in my butt and not much mobility in my toes. I can hold my toes down with my hank and not raise them.
I'm scared. I don't want to put off what surgery might fix and scared that surgery might worsen my condition. The surgeon is a good surgeon and I have heard good results from this other guy that has seen him. I just don't want to jump the gun and rush into surgery but also don't want to

Please give me some advice.

Thanks Billy

Thanks Rich for your post regarding my visits to Bonati and LSI. After visiting both places ( I told my husband that it reminded me of taking our son to visit colleges, if we had a good tour guide we thought the college was awesome, a bad one left us with a lower opinion of the college) and so it was with our tours of the 2 facilities. We had a wonderful guide at Bonati, showed us everything there. Spent time and answered whatever questions we had. We spoke to 2 patients there, one was from Phoenix having his third surgery and obviously was very pleased, the other was from Alaska and was just starting the testing process. We had to wait for the patient representative that I had previosly been in contact with at LSI and he showed us a few things but not a thorough tour. At LSI we again spoke to 2 people, one back for a second surgery and one just starting testing. What surprised me was all 4 of these people made the decision without looking or getting any information on the other facilities. I still don't know what to do, the places are way so different in appearance and unfortunately LSI will not accept my Blue Cross/Blue Shield HMO and they are quoting me 30,000 and they will submit to insurance and I would be reimbursed anything that they receive. We contacted our insurance company and provided them with all the codes that would be billed and my ins will pay about 8000, which means for me out of pocket about 22,000 OR I could pay them 15,000 and anything they receive over 20,000 would than be reimbursed to me. Kind of confusing. They however would be able to do 3 procedures on the L4/L5 level and they would leave the L5/S1 alone for now. Bonati will accept my BC/BS but I would be responsible for my out of network co-pay of 2250 PLUS because they are not receiving all the reimbursements they thought they would as of Oct 1 (I believe this is the correct date) they have added on an additional 5000 deposit for each surgery. They are telling me I need at least 2 surgeries, possibly 3 because they only do one procedure at a time, so I am looking at a minimum of 12500 cost.
Innovator, how did you make the decision to go to Bonati instead of LSI? I will be anxiously looking forward to your updates on your son and will be praying for him on Wednesday. Are you staying at one of the condos they provide info on? Any info you can give me I would appreciate so I can make the best decision.
Again this website is such a blessing, so much information and sharing and it helps to know that others are sharing the same feelings that you are.
Barb

Hello Barb,

Nice to know your name.

Barb, you have done your homework well. THAT is IMPORTANT. Doesn't necessarily make the decision any easier, but you can rest in peace knowing that you made the decision with a lot of homework to back you up.

In a past post from Innovator he said it best regarding LSI and Bonati. I'll let him respond as he should

As I told my wife today, I'm gertting concerned abut Innovator and his son. I beleive they left last Wednesday or Thursday EVENING from Arkansas. Driving at night and for a long time has always been a concern of mine. I really hope we hear a word from Innovator soon and that they hopefully did have a safe trip.

Have a Good Day!!!

RichT

Hello Billy,

WELCOME to this forum and especially to this thread. Happy to have you as a part of this GREAT Spiney Family.

Billy, I am no doctor, however, I'll put money on the table what you have is NOT just a muscle spasm.

Second, you need to get at least another 2nd opinion and preferably a 3rd opinion from a neurologist/spinal surgeon. Talk to those you know who have been to a spine specialist. (Chiros and GPs don't count in my biased opinion). Find out which spine specialist people liked and had faith in and which ones were bad. Trust me, it isn't easy finding a truly "expert" neurologist/spine surgeon. Been there.

And most importantly, don't delay. Having pain in your leg and that tingling/numbness is NOT a small thing. Also, it is something that can be taken care of.

By all means try an epidural injection (containing a corticosteroid such as Kenalog) BEFORE scheduling any surgery.

From all I had read regarding people's experiences with epidural injections I was VERY skeptical when my PM doc suggested I have an epidural injection. Seemed like a waste of time. WELLLLllll, had my first injection by him the end of April. By that evening my wife thought I was walking more upright. In about a week the pain in my upper right leg was gone. In abuot a month the tingling sensation I had in the lower part of my leg was gone. Now it is the 9th of December and the pain and tingling in my leg is still gone.

Okay, I'm also convinced that it takes one VERY skilled doctor to make the injection at EXACTLY the right spot. My PM doc thoroughly reviewed the MRIs and x-rays. Then during the injection he used a fluoroscope to help him guide the needle to exactly the spot it neededd to be. It WORKED!!!

Before that I had had two epidural injections by PAs. The first one helped for about a week or so. The second injection only worked for a week at best.

I'm totally with you regardiang your reluctance to have surgery. Back last summer my spinal surgeon told me that I needed to have two fusions, etc. within 6 months (one foot incision). On the 11th I will meet again wtih him. My PM doc has REALLY helped so that I can function fairly well with only a 0 to 2 pain level. My PM doc and two other spinal surgeons have told me I do NOT need to have surgery at this time. Should be an interesting discussion on the 11th.

Oh yes, I also am concerned like you are that waiting may make things just that much worse. It has taken several months for me to sort things out. Yes, I will take into consideration what my spinal surgeon has recommended, however, I will also take into consideration many other factors.

At this point in time my view is that I want to stay away from the knife, rods and screws as long as I can. I have too much gardening planned for next year. LOL

I wish you the very best. Do stay in touch, and do give us your thoughts from what this spiney family posts. This thread really moves/rocks, so check in every day. LOL

RichT

Having just been through all this, if Billy h is having loss of motor function and sensation in the foot, I think surgery is the best idea, or else he does risk permanent nerve damage. If he can't forcefully raise his toes (especially the big toe) and has numbness at the ankle, top of the foot and outside of the calf, there is a serious impingment at L5 that will lead to nerve damage if not treated. I looked at the MRI views he referenced and there is obviously a disc extrusion that may even be moderately impressing on the thecal sac (spinal cord). This ain't no muscle spasm. I wish he had uploaded axial MRI views to see how bad the L5 nerve is pinched (that's the view looking downward), but in any event, Billy, don't be like me and wait...get it fixed. And whatever you do, don't get any chiropractic manipulations - that might only make it worse.

He needs to make sure, however, that his surgeon is going to do a minimally invasive proceedure, not an "open back" or anything like that.

Good luck Billy, it will work out.

Pina3013

Thank you guys for the feedback.

I may of been unclear about my First post. I went to my family Dr. at first for of this onset of back pain, 2 days before Thanksgiving. That day I only was having a bad backache.
Seven years ago I had an MRI and the results was only a bulging disk. It cleared up and I didn't have any pain again for 7 years until it flared up again a few months ago. I explained that to my Dr.
He prescribed me a few painkillers and some muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatory meds.

The day after Thanksgiving is when my disk herniated or so I believe. That’s when I started having the numbness and loss of motor skills in my foot.

I immediately went to a specialist who took a new MRI that showed my disk had ruptured. So I've only been in this condition for 3 weeks now. I pity you guys that I've read about having pain for months and years and several ruptured disk.

My concern right now is this...My specialist said my herniated disk could heal on its on but he was worried about the loss of strength in my foot from it and he was uncertain if that would heal. Even after surgery it will still be uncertain and he can't guarantee me anything.

I told him I would opt for surgery but my pain has subsided since my visit to his office. The numbness, tingling, and loss of strength in my toes still remain the same. I just hope I didn’t jump the gun and ask for surgery to soon.

And YES, the surgery is the Minimally Invasive type of surgery.

Sorry I ramble so much. I just have worried myself until I’m sick to the stomach.
Surgery is scheduled for Tuesday Morning at 6:30am if I go through with it.

Thanks so much again for your comments. Does the Microdiscectomy hurt?

And Thank you Pina. I'm having the same surgery but in Augusta, GA by Dr Guitton. I'm 38 and very active and don't want to loose any of my activities. I like hikeing, driving on road trips but not weight lifting. I do work hard and I do hard work in the yard when called for.

Billy H