I know this is off the topic, but I thought since we all have become friends, you might forgive me. This will probably be a long post. I hope you read every word.

Monday is Veteran's Day, where we honor the men and women who have served our country. I found out when I was younger that the price of freedom is a high one. All of us should thank every veteran who has put his/her life in jeopardy so that we have the freedom to say what we want and do want we want.

There are some people that take freedom for granted and those are the ones for which I am writing. Freedom to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not just a bunch of words. They are words which you have to fight for. They are words you have to sacrifice for. Many before you have made that sacrifice. Many have made the ultimate sacrifice.

No one wants to leave their girlfriend, wife, children, mother, father, brother, sister or grandparents to go to other parts of the world and fight enemies to our way of life. America is a great country, where most people have a comfortable lifestyle, but there seems to be apathy towards veterans. They don't get enough pay, enough support from government and not enough help when they come home. And some come home with medical problems and even disabilities. As in all wars, young men (some 18 or 19) make up the majority of wounded and dead and they made sacrifices unimagined by the typical American.

Many do not agree with the administration's policies and we are mired in another pointless war. I am one who does not agree. But please do not confuse your feelings for the administrators of war with your feelings for the soldiers fighting that war. I was personally involved in another unpopular war some 40 years ago and found out the depth of hatred in people. I came back to America and was spit upon by anti-war demonstrators. That was a life-changing experience and and a rude awakening.

As a result, I was reluctant to tell anyone that I had served in the military. But, over the years, time passed and I came to realize that my service was honorable and I did nothing wrong. Now, I am proud to have served and I have had a great life. But, I am an exception to the usual young person who tries to return to civilian life after serving in wartime. When people tell you that "war is hell," don't believe it. War is worse than that.

War changes everyone in it because it scares the crap out of you, every minute of every day. Young men, full of testosterone, go into war thinking nothing can hurt them and they can never die. Suddenly, they are faced with the stark reality that they can be hurt and they definitely can die. It's a severe adjustment to any mortality contemplation. Many come home more mature but they are never the same inside and some poor souls never recover from the shock.

When I think of Veteran's Day, I think of my dad. He's gone now, but he was also a veteran (WWII fighter pilot). I think of him because he sacrificed a period of time in his life that he was never able to get back.
He always wanted me to go further in life than he did. I have spent most of my life trying to please him.

So, for this Veteran's Day, please think of all the good things in your life and show your patriotism. It is not a dirty word and it will never become passe to be patriotic. It just means you love your country and that you support all the men and women who have defended YOUR country since the Revolutionary War. Fly an American Flag or thank a veteran (maybe one of your relatives) who served for you.

I Rich,

My daughter was glad to provide the info. She's a hard worker, but the masters degrees that she has are a requirement to maintain her teaching certification in Ma. Once a new teacher graduates and passes the state teaching certification exam, which is in the subject area that they teach for both middle and high school, they must obtain a master's degree in the subject area within 5 years or they loose their teaching certification and have to start all over again. The initial certification is only a temporary certification.
Sad thing is, that the education from a master's degree is not something that can really be brought into the classroom in a middle school or HS and used for educating the students. Too complicated and in depth. As my daughter says "it's only an incentive to leave teaching and go to work in the private sector to make more money, and once you have a masters in the subject area, you have to be careful not to get any more or you will have trouble getting a teaching job, because they are forced to pay you for more masters degrees and they can get other teachers with less education." She's done her requirements to keep her liscense, is never planing to leave teaching either.

Anyway, I don't think you went off topic with your questions or comments.

Doctors should tell their paitents what they are giving them for treatment in meds etc. and be accurate with what they say.

On the other hand, we need to be careful when we research info on line as well. There is so much inaccurate info on line and many times it's hard to sort through all the info and be sure that what we find is correct and accurate.

As for the changes in the synthetic cortisone vs natural made. The synthetic works very much the same as the natural that the body makes.
Differences are the long acting affect and the ability to inject it into a localized area, ie in the spinal area, joint or mucles or it can be taken systemically.
The synthetic is a more potent anti-inflammatory as well.

Side affects are the same as well, just increased because of the longer acting affects of the synthetic.

Natural or synthetic, they are all in the same family and therefore the classification of "cortisone" so I'm not sure if it is really incorrect to say that it really isn't a cortisone or not.

I think it's similar to the penicillin family thing. Penicillin is a very specific antibiotic. Change a bit of the formula and you create a new antibiotic such as amoxycillin. change a bit again and you have augmentum.
Yet they are all classified as "cillinaise drugs". (there are quite a few of them in this cillinaiase category besides the one I mentioned).

Now, the old penicillin may not work on a particular infection, but a different one in the family will, because of the slight change in the original compound.

On the other hand, if you are allergic to one of the cillinase drugs, you are allergic to all of them.

Many doctors just refer to them as the cilinase drugs, and only use the specific name when writing a prescription, so that the patient gets the "right family member" to treat the infection.

Interesting though, when my doc said he was going to start me on prednisone last week for more problems with my back. (I'll post about that one another time), he said the following.

"I'm going to start you on cortisone to get this mass inflammation down and we can figure out what's going on. Specifically, prednisone, actually are you familiar with the methyl-prednisonole dreasing packet dose?'

I told him I was, and he said good. "then you know how the dose packet works, starting out with the first day and decreasing through day 6."

He was general, then more specific and then most specific with the cortisone that he was going to put me on.

More docs should be like this.

Oh, yes during my daughter's 4 years undergrad at Brandeis University, she worked in 2 research labs as part of her degree as well as part of her work study.

She was involved in the research and development of the product "smart balance" the replacement for margarine that helps to lower blood cholesterol and tastes wondeful.
It really works too, kept mine very low and helped to decrease my hubbies levels enough to decrease his cholesterol med to a lower dose

and she worked in the lab with the famous and beloved Parrot, Alex as well, who died suddenly in Sept.
See link below.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachus etts/articles/2007/09/11/death_of_gifted_p arrot_stuns_scientists/

Fran

Lonestar,

What a beautiful post, and IMHO, you needn't apologize for going off topic.
We are all friends here, and a heartfelt post to your friends is not going off topic.

No veteran in this country should ever feel ashamed for serving their country, regardless of the war or wars they have served in.

And, yes, there is a huge difference in supporting a war and supporting our troops. One can be fully against a war IE Iraq, Vietnam and supporting our troops.

I come from a Military family. My grandfather was a WW1 army vet, who served on war boards in Washington before and during WW2. He was proud of all of his service and we where of him. All the medals he recieved in WW1 where an honor to him, but he never forgot those that where left behind and those that suffered the aftermath of war.

My father served in Korea as did 2 uncles. and they where proud of their service as well.

Kids where called "Army Brats", but those of us that had grandparents that served in the army had a very distinct name in MA "Army Grand Brats". We where so proud of that name.

I was always brought up to remember "never forget our vets and never forget our troops, no matter what you believe about what they are fighting for. They are doing the job they where ordered to do and had no choice. Never blame our troops for the conflicts and wars that they are involved in, but it is YOUR RIGHT AND RESPONSIBILITY TO OPPOSE THE ACTION THAT HAS BEEN TAKEN BY THE GOVERNMENT IN CHARGE THAT HAS SENT THEM TO WAR OR CONFLICT, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT IT IS WRONG. JUST NEVER BLAME THE TROOPS."

I've never forgotten those words, lonestar.

I was one of those out in the streets against Vietnam, but never did I mix up my belief against the war with those that served, where serving and coming home.

It wasn't in me to be able to turn against those that where coming home, least of all when some of them where my friends that had been drafted to go.

My family was part of an MA organization that made sure that those bodies coming home to MA had coffins to be placed in and American flags on their caskets before their families saw the body bags.
They where simple plain pine coffins, but it was a coffin to bring the body to the desired funeral homes. Once there, the coffin was returned to the organization to be used again and again and again.
I couldn't imagine a family receiving their loved one in a military body bag.

In this recent war in Iraq and Afghanistan, it's a different view for me. Instead of being the teenager and early 20's kid, I'm the mother and watching the kids that grew up with my children, going off to war.
Now I live the fear that these kids will be hurt or killed and Oh my is that a different fear to live with.

I'm just as much against this mess as I was against the Vietnam War, and prior to the spiney stuff, I was out in the street against this one too.

That angered my daughter to no end. She couldn't understand how I could do that while her best friends brother was over their in the Marines, and her brother's best friend, "her other big brother" was over there too.

I did my best to try and explain to her the difference between supporting our troops and not supporting the war and got no where.
I reminded her of the $5,000 worth of xmas stuff we sent to "her other brother and his platoon" and it didn't help.

What worked was the following e-mail that we got from him and his platoon. He calls his mother Mom, and calls me "Ma"

"Hi, Mom and Ma,

Thanks so much for the huge packages. We wil have to get off to you some pics of what you sent us late, but no one in the world could have come up with these packages but you Ma. It just goes to show that we where always right when we called you "crazy Mrs. B."

Who else would send all this stuff for Xmas to the middle of the dessert in the middle east for Xmas.

Anyway, we have the 7 foot xmas foot tree up already. The green skirt was perfect for it. and the artificial snow is sprinkled on it and all over the tree.

the ornaments are perfect and adorable. We love the ones that represent each of our hometowns too. The rotating and musical stand is just perfect. We hooked up an old battery to it and when we can we run it so we can have the music.

The lights work too and none of them arrived broken either. How in the world did you pull that off?

7,000 feet of garland was perfect. now we know why you asked such crazy questions about footage of this and that MA. And the bags of fresh found pinecones almost had me in tears. but how long did it take you to fill all those 33 gallon trash bags. there where 5 bags. and all of them where different.

None of us know how to thank you for all you've done. You've given us a piece of home that none of us could ever live long enough to thank you for all of it.

I guess I'm not surprised that you would do this, but Ma, it is without question, the craziest thing you've ever come up with. But what you've given us is really the best thing you've ever come up with. It's knowing how much you love us, respect us and have all of us in your hearts.

Now Rachael, my little sis. My humvee is named for you and those old cards we used to collect. It's called 'Rachael Rodent". Your pictures are on the front dashboard and I know I'm always safe in it, cause I can't take too many risks, I have to come home to my "little rachael rodent".

so for you understand this please. There is a difference in supporting the troops and not supporting the war.

Mom and Ma are doing nothing wrong in being against this war. It has nothing to do in not supporting us.

This country, the USA, was founded with the rights of it's citizens to have free speech, free press not censored in what they say.

To say that it is unpatriotic to express ones beliefs that are different than the goverments policies is wrong.

As a matter of fact, it is far more patriotic to open one's mouth and disent rather than sit by and not ask questions.
A country whose people just sit by and do nothing when they disagree with the government policies, are afraid to do or say anything because of what the consequences might be are not a free people.
We, in the USA are a free people.
We have just freed the people in another country from an oppressive regime that didn't have that right, until now.

The best thing a citizen of the USA can do now to respect the troops is to exercise their rights to protest, or support the government policies or do whatever they believe, but exercise the rights that we enjoy in this country.

Your military troops have been fighting to preserve those rights that you have since the beginning of this country during the revolutionary war.

So Mom, and Ma, you go ladies and do what you believe in. We love you and as long as you exercise the freedoms that we are fightig for, you decide which way to go. It's no disrespect to us, it's the biggest honor you can give us.

Again thanks from all of us and Ma, you will never be able to top this gift, if you live to be a million."

Lonestar, my flags wave high and all the time. Lights under them at night. On special days of flag waving, a special flag goes outside. Not in the best of conditions, but it is one of the smaller flags that was at my grandfathers grave during his funeral.

And here is a special salute to you, my friend, an honorable vet. All my support to you as a vet and fellow family spinal friend.

Fran

Wow Fran!

That was a poignant and welcome post and I appreciate your kind words about veterans and the sacrifices they have made. I agree completely with the right to protest anything you feel is unfair or wrong. That's why our country is great--because we are allowed to dissent. You have indeed lived a life filled with military influences and you are one of the best veteran supporters I have come across.

I have been following this forum for a few weeks and have decided to jump in for moral support. I also wondered how MJ was doing as I beleive a second surgery was scheduled for Nov 12th?

I moved to Arkansas about six months ago to help my son (31 yrs old) through his back problems. I quit my job to do this. He has no insurance but I will cover the costs though I am not rich.
To date he has been told to control his back problems with pain medications and it has come to the point where he can no longer work.
He is in constant pain and says he has no life though he has two beautiful children and a great wife. He says he wants his life back

He has the following back issues:

Bulge at L3/4, L4/5(severe) amd L5/S1(severe)
DDD at all three locations
Foraminal narrowing at all three locations
Degenerative facet disease at all locations

He was told he could have a double fusion but success rate from this surgery from research is fairly low. I researched the web and came up with Bonati, LSI and Microspine.
Through all the research we were told by all three he was a candidate for surgery. Bonati ask for MRIs to review, LSI and Microspine only requested the review of the MRI as it was written.

Through it all I have decided to go with Bonati and we are scheduled for Dec 7th for checkin, Dec 12th first surgery (Facets) and Dec 19th second surgery (L5/S1) and possibly a third surgery on (L4/5).

I am very encouraged by Joebob's and Carrianne's results at Bonati.
The doctor scheduled for my son is Dr. Moffat.

I will keep you up to date on how things go when we are there.

Innovator 54

I'm too busy being bored right now. 2 more weeks of boredom and I will be able to start PT. It is so hard not to do anything. I had to watch my wife rake the leaves this weekend and I tell you I have never wanted to rake leaves this bad in my life. I am so looking foward to doing everything I used too. I feel great and still have no pain. My stitches have been removed and the scar is already smoothing out. One thing that I did the first 2 weeks is ice my back a ton. I believe this helped great in reducing any pain I would have had.

I officially went of all Meds Monday and boy my brain is excited. It is a strange feeling for me to be pain free without the use of meds.

Good luck to all of you facing Surgery or those of you who recently had surgery. It can be scary but just trust in God to lead you and everything will be alright.

David

Hello Innovator,

WELCOME to this thread and the great people who post here. Glad you have taken the time to read through some of the posts.

Sorry to read that your son has bad back pain. Frankly I always get concerned when doctors push pain medication. I was on hydrocodone for a few weeks and that was long enough. I litterally slept the whole day away. That to me is not how one wants to live.

I can understand that your son wants his life back. Understand well. GREAT that he has two beautiful children and a great wife to support him. THAT is SOOOOoooo important.

AND your support of your son tells me of the wonderful father you are. To sacrifice your position and willingness to financially support his upcoming surgery is beyond words. BRAVO!!!

My current spine surgeon wants to fuse my back in two places and do a bunch of other things. As long as my pain management doc can keep me going with an epidural injection I'll stay away from the knife.

A question if I may - Has your son had any epidural injections containing the corticosteroid Kenalog? If not, may I suggest that he give this a try before having surgery. Sure has helped me.

I commend you for your research. You and your son have done your homework well. My first pick of the three laser institutes is also Bonati. A good choice. Your son is most fortunate to have Dr. Moffat as his surgeon. I'm sure you noticed that Joe also had Dr. Moffat as his surgeon.

Please do keep us updated on how things progress. We are concerned.

My thoughts and prayers are with not only your son but also with you and his family.

Take care.

RichT

Good afternoon all.....I'm reporting everything so far has been wonderful!!!!
Had lumbar facets....L-4-5-S1.....and ....SI(i) joint surgery last night...got out at 7:05 pm....went in at 3:00 ( SI.....didn't know I had one.. but we all do)......but found that out after facet injections in L-4-5-5-S1.....still had achyness ....hip pain and butt pain.....so they went in and did the S-I(i) facet injections. It feels like a ton of weight has been lifted from my shoulders and back........I actually feel human now........my step mom even said......."you are smiling more" and ''are not so rigid"

Had my therapy today...ice, tens, and wonderful massage.

My next surgery(3rd and final.....I hope) for my thoracic is set for Tuesday......(call Monday) for time........and then I'm done........(keep those prayers....Please...they ARE working!!!!!!)

Innovator....I'm so glad you are seeing the fine people of this facility....I pray that your son finds the relief I know he so desperatly needs and deserves. You will find Dr. Moffatt to be a most awesome caring person....he's a searcher for info......so let him know all of it. I've spoken to several people here that have had failed fusion surgery ....one I talked with briefly before my therapy..and she is most happy now with Bonati's procedures....will be looking for the updates on his progress...

Dave....great to hear you are doing so great......I wish you all the best.

Has anyone heard from Marie....as to how her surgery went?

Rich T..........Hope your injections are doing some good for you.

Fran........I too am an Army Brat.......my father retired the year I graduated from high school.......1968......saw quite abit of the country and two tours of Germany. Your writing is beautiful.......

Ms Carrianne.......I hope you are continuing to progress........and can start therapy soon.......if you are walking daily.........and stretching.......I feel that is the best.......

mj......

Hello Dave,

Thanks for the nice update. FANTASTIC that you are doing so very well. I admire your willpower to be patient with yourself and not do what you would like to do.

AHHHHhhhh you have one FANTASTIC wife. She supports you so well by raking the leaves, knowing full well that you must not. And I know her support is far more than just raking leaves.

Yes Dave, I'm sure you are bored. When you feel GREAT it is SOOOoo difficult not to just go and do what you want to do and are waiting to do. I comment you for your willpower and your patience. May the next two weeks go quickly. Do let us know how your first PT session goes.

AND so very VERY true - Having trust/faith in God helps so much to help us through difficult/concerning times.

Have a FANTASTIC Day!!!

RichT

Hello MJ,

No better words to read and "hear" from you than "everything so far has been wonderful!!!" Those words put a smile on my face knowing that your pain is much less.

Glad to read that your PT went well.

My thoughts and prayers are with you as always, and especially so on your last surgery this coming Tuesday.

The injection I had this past Thursday does seem to be helping. Friday, Saturday and Sunday were great. About 5 am on Monday morning and Tuesday night were not so good, but that may have been my arthrtiis acting up because of the damp cool rainy weather. Slept well last night. Transplanted five astilbe today (root balls were about 40-50 lbs each. So I'll see how the back does this evening.

Yes, I too have been wondering if anyone has heard from Marie. I have not. Hopefully her surgery went well.

Have a WONDERFUL Day!!

RichT

No word here either from Marie. She hasn't sent me any personal e-mails either.

If I remember correctly, she was going to be in the hospital for 3 days or so.
I wonder if they kept her longer than they usually would, to get her pain under contol.

She said that she has trouble with narcs and they don't do anything for her pain. she had wanted anit-inflammatories because that was the only thing that helped her pain.

those are a no, no, after fusion. they can prevent the fusion from working and afte surgery cause bleeding.

Hope we hear from her soon, though.

Fran

Hi MJ,

so glad to hear you are doing better and getting more and more relief. Hope this last surgery works for you as well.

You're a year older than me, I'm the class of 1969. Get his, really freaked me out too when I realized it. My son is the class of 1996 and little sister was the class of 2001, "a space odisssey kid". That's what they where called all through school.

When her class was planning graduation ceremonies, the entire class demanded that they march into the music theme of the movie "2001 space oddysey". The superintendent said "NO" and these kids said "fine, have a great graduation exercises, none of us will be there."
They didn't show up for he first or second rehearsal, and he finally relent and the kids warned him that if the music wasn't there, they would, as a class, turn and leave.

They won that battle.

Parents thought it was hysterical that the Super said no, yet all through their school years, they where always referred to as the "space oddyssy kids.

Fran

Hello Viewers,

Its GREAT that so many of you are following along on the spine "activities" of the posters on this thread.

I would really like to encourage every one of you to become an active posting member of this GREAT spiney family.

Have a SUPER Day!!

RichT

Hello Fran,

Thanks for sharing your most interesting story about the "spine" of your daughter's class. BRAVO to them. If they have all excelled as well as your daughter, then the "super" should be very proud of them.

Take care.

RichT

MJ:
Glad to hear your are doing well. Did you have your surgery at Bonati and was Dr. Moffat your surgeon? I am really hoping my son will come through with improvements. He needs his spirits lifted immensely.

RichT:
My son has had many epidural injections. Not sure of the medicine used but I will ask him. They did not work for him.

He has been put on Oxicodone. This is a very dangerous drug.
I don't want to get kicked off the thread but who ever invented this drug needs to be put out of business. He is managing it well but wants off of it very badly. He feels it affects his thoughts and llife also.

First thing is to improve the back then get rid of the Oxicodone.

He wants to go back to college and become an Elementary school teacher.
He is a very devout christain also.

Me personally,I have only hurt my back once and was in pain for about a week. From being around my son I have learned to respect and admire people like RichT and others who are living with this every day.
I hope you ALL get some improvement some day and you will be in my families prayers daily.

Innovator54

Hello Innovator,

Thank you for the info and your kind words.

Unfortunate that the epidural injections did not work for your son.

May I ask if Dr. Moffat knows that your son is taking Oxicodone? If not, it would be wise that the doctor knows this.

Just getting myself off of hydrocodone was not pleasant. It took several weeks after I had stopped that I felt "normal". As is normally recommeneded I slowly decreased my dosage over about a week or more tell I stopped taking it.

May your son's surgery be a success just like Joe's.

RichT

RichT:

Bonati has already been informed of the Oxicodone. They are more concerned with anti-inflammatory drugs. Oxicodone is not considered an anti-inflammatory drug. The Doctor responsible for his prescriptions has also been informed of his upcoming surgery at Bonati and is aware of all.
This is required by law.

Innovator54

Rich T....I certainly hope you are getting some help lifting those plants and getting them in to their new home........that's alot of weight.......hope the pain is not bad today for you if not.

Fran......my daughter graduated in 1986......that is so funny......here's another funny thing........her birthday is 9/21......mine is 6/12....strange huh? numbers like that have always intrigued me.....my mothers birthday was 2/21......

It would only be fitting that "Space Oddessy'' would be their theme....good for them!

Innovator....yes Dr. Moffatt is my doctor.......but Dr. Wexner did my surgery on my lumbar area....and my Si joint. Dr. Moffatt does Cervical and Thoracic surgeries....at least that has been the fact with me. I'm not familiar with Oxycodone.......I've heard of Oxycotin(sp)......being very dangerous....I was given the generic for Percocet a long time ago......and the generic for it was and Oxy something........that freaked me out.....could not take it.......made me itch. Loritabs are the only thing I've found that helps me.

Talk with you all later............mj

Hello MJ,

"No worries" as the Aussies say. My back was feeling very well last night and same today. Oh yes, wise or unwise I lifted the plants myself.

Birthday numbers - I was born on 5/26, our son on 5/23, and our daughter on 5/28. To say the least the end of May is a busy time, especially for my wife. And then again, she only needs to make one birthday dinner that we celebrate together. My wife's birthday is on 2/28, and my brother's birthday was on 8/28.

Take care.

RichT

Wow is this thread moving right along! I take a couple days off (crazy busy at work) and I'm behind on my reading!

Rich,
Glad you are still feeling relief from your epidural. That's wonderful! Don't overdo it though. 40-50 lbs sounds like a whole lot!! God bless you!

MJ,
Yeah!! So happy you're feeling so well and wish you all the best on your thoracic surgery. I'm sure it will be just as successful as the first 2! God is with you!

Marie,
We're anxiously awaiting your good news and continue to pray for a complete recovery! God bless!

David,
So happy for your great reports also and look forward to updates when you start PT. I myself am hoping to start in a week or two. Hopefully some of this stiffness will go away. God bless!

Innovator,
I'm so sorry for all the pain that your son is in and very happy that you have found this site. You'll find an incredible support system here! It sounds like your sons issues are very similar to mine except my L3/L4 isn't affected. But everything else is exactly like my issues. I had surgery at The Bonati Institute so if you have any questions, fire away! My surgeon was Dr. Bonati, but I did see Dr. Moffatt a couple times as well. I had a complication after my first surgery (which you've probably read) and Dr. Bonati went on vacation after my surgery so Dr. Moffatt saw me and he's incredible. Your son will be in great hands! God bless!

Carrianne