Carianne, over the past several weeks I've read about 20 pages of this thread, so I have been able to follow your journey. I must admit it did scare me when I heard about your dura leak. My mother is the type of person that if there is a side affect or a complication....she will end up with it! A spinal headache like you ended up with, I don't know if she can bear it! I hope you are healing well now. I would like to know though, if you could give me some idea of the pain level you were at before surgery compared to now. How drastically has your quality of life changed? We live in Washington state, so 3 or 4 weeks in Florida would be quite spendy, especially considering my brothers and I would never let her go alone! I definitely plan on urging her in the laser spine direction if the decompression doesn't give enough relief. Thanks again for the warm welcome, and the offer of information!

Terri

Hello Homebody! Is it safe for me to ask how old your mother is?

And can I ask the cause of the stenosis? Is it Osteophytes, or is the pressure from a central buldging disc or herniated disc? Are there pinched nerves involved or have they done an X-Ray eg. Extension/Flexion X-Ray, to determine if Spondolythesis is involved? Even extreme degenerated Facets can be a part of this type pain.

There is so much to know from an MRI before one can decide just how much an injection will do. And the same can be said in regard to a chiropractor.
All conservative treatment is best before one faces the possibility of surgery. I believe every human life is valuable and it should be as free from pain as possible and your mother has every right to live the rest of her life in the most pain free body she can until she takes her last breath on earth. How good of you to be such a caring daughter to help in this way.

If you are in the state of Washington, and you still consider laser as an option, be careful in regard to some of the laser centers on the west coast. There have been some very bad experiences especially from a particularCalifornia laser center. I wish Dragonfly 44, now Blue Dragonfly were around to explain that to you.

I have stenosis. I also have spondy. I also have facet degeneration.
After seeing many doctors, I chose Minimally Invasive Surgery when my spine specialists identified for me this type of surgery as an option for me.
Not all doctors wanted to do that type surgery. So really go through a lot of interviews with various doctors before a decision is made.

I know lots of people who had stenosis from degeneration and tiny bone spurs and had Minimally Invasive Surgery...that is with the surgeon using the endoscope like the laser centers do. If all your mother has is stenosis and surgery becomes a choice, do check out those spinal surgeons and only spinal specialists. Depending on whether the stenosis is one sided or wide based, a simple Laminotomy may be all that is needed along with the debredement of any bonespurs. The incision is only 1 inch and most of those I know came out doing really well.

So good luck in your journey with your mother to find the best solution you can.

Marie B.

Hello Fran,

Thanks for sharing. I hope in so doing you had some of the pain, frustration, and concern lifted from your shoulders. I hope that hy now your cold is much better. Perhaps your doctor will be able to work you in earlier than the dates given.

I hope all the important "timings" will work out for you.

Fran, you have a son that I know you and your husband are very proud of. I'm sure he will give his all in his presentation to the Supreme Court.

May the good Lord ease your pain.

RichT

Hello Dave,

It was nice that the DirecTV guys could install your dish in the afternoon.

You ARE in my thoughts and prayers. May your surgery go well on Tuesday and your recovery likewise.

RichT

Hello LSG,

Hope you are doing well. I have a hard time keeping up with all the posts.

Give us an ujpdate when you can.

Have a GREAT Day!

RichT

Good morning Everyone,

Marie sent me an E-mail saying that she has not been able to post on this thread for some reason. Anyone else having a similar problem? If problems, send me an E-mail at

*edited, please do not post your email address, for your own safety. Feel free to PM the user, if you'd like.

The moderator

I'll send an E-mail to the Admin this morning.

RichT

Hi Rich,

Giving it a try to see if I have a problem posting.

Fran

Well by some mysterious power, I have been allowed to log in again.
Maybe Rich has more power then me, but finally after typing in the spaces and being rejected and rejected again, I managed to log on. Maybe its because it is the weekend and no one is minding the store. I don't know what was the magic key.

Thanks Rich for your help. I did send an email to the administrator but was still locked out for over a day..almost 2 days.

Fran, What do you have to say about one of those toilet seats with bars? Is that a necessity to have? I just got an email from a friend and she said she couldn't have made it in the first few days without it.

I also stumbled on my husbands two long handled barbecuepickups and a light bulb lit in my head. This could be a means of picking items up or pulling up slacks etc.

This friend also said that when she had her stenosis surgery, she had to have a "pain patch" put on her. This woman had Min. Invasive surgery.
She said she had a lot of pain for 4 days and was in the hospital for 4 days. And they gave her morphine and Vicodan to help overcome the pain. She also said that with in less then 3 weeks she recovered and was back at work. So the suggestion from her is that the first early days are a bit tough.

Everyone has not reported such intense pain immediately post op. Maybe it is dependent upon a person's pain tolerance. I did tell her that my experience with pain meds is that they usually put me to sleep.
That I always had the best results when an anti-inflammatory was taken in addition to a pain pill.
I believe one person on this Forum said Torodol made him throw up and messed up his stomach. I don't know if that is because he had taken such a high dose or that he had taken it for a very long time before his stomach revolted against the med. I found Torodol post Hysterectomy surgery to be like a magic pill. No stomach problems at all. Amazing isn't it how different we all react to the various meds given to help us?

Should I say some magic words before I log out this time so I can get back on?

Marie B.

Fran, we talked about this before but I overlooked it. Please PM me your email address so that I don't have to keep pestering Rich.


Marie B.

Hello Marie,

Glad you "hung tough" and gave it another try. It just may have been a web site maintenance thing. I'll let you know what I find out from Lee.

Okay, here is how I "operate" the forum - I went to the "Back Pain" board and then clicked on "Favorites", etc. Now all I do is go to my Favorites list and click on the EHealth link and I am there. Then all I need to do is click on "Laser Spine Surgery" thread and I am here. No logging in until I want to post to someone. Is this what you do?

Hsve your chat with Fran, however, NEVER EVER feel that you are "pestering" me. Will never happen. I'm always glad to try and help.

By the way I found out just a few days ago that Lee lives in *edited for personal informatioin. A small world isn't it. He blows me away with his excellent English.

Enjoy the gifts that God has given you.

RichT

Thoughts on toilet seat riser. My best friend who is a nurse and was with me at all my spine appts. second opinions, surgery etc. wondered about the same thing and asked the doc about it.

His answer was simple, depends on the location of the toilet in the bathroom and if you will have someone with you at home for the first week or so and also depends on your height.

If you have something to lean on, on at least one side of the toilet, but better if it is both sides, then you shouldn't need a riser. If you are under 5'4" you shouldn't need one either. If you will have someone with you 24/7 for at least a week to help you get up, you shouldn't need one either.

My toilet is right beside the tub and the vanity sink on the other side. I'm really short too, only 4'10 1/4" so my feet where on the floor and I could help myself get up by putting one hand on the tub edge and the other on the vanity.

The first few days home, though, my arms where very sore from the tendon problems I have with both of them and it was hard to get up. My hubby or my friend was with me to help, but hubby was the best help.
I should say, his dungarees where the best help. No laughing now, cause this sounds crazy, but it was the best thing to do and really works.
He's 5'10" tall.

I'd have him stand in front of me with enough room for me to stand up.
then I put me hands in both of his front pockets of the dungarees and pull myself up holding on to the pockets. Sometimes he had to move back just a bit. I also made sure that I kept my pants and underwear (sorry for this, all you men) pulled down only to my knees so I could pull them up again when I was standing.


As for pain patches and meds. I'm not a good one to ask about that one. I have a very poor tolerance for pain meds, with a great deal of difficulty tolerating them. no matter what prescription they give me and no matter how long I take them, all they really do is act like a sleeping pill for me. I can't be left alone when taking them, because I need someone to hold me up and get around, even to the bathroom.

Though all the months I was in so much horrible pain, I only could take extra strength tylenol and ibuprofen. When the nerve pain got so bad that I told my doc I was contimplating suicide, we decided to try neurontin., starting at very low dose of 100mg at night and slowly increase it to at least 300mg a day or more. Took 5 weeks for me to get to that dose. I had to take it a half hour before going to bed and then slept for about 7 hours. If I didn't do it that way, it was lke taking percocet. Went through it every time I increased it but after a week of a dose I was fine, till I increased it. Pain pills don't work that way with me.

I've barely ever used any pain meds post op from any of my surgeries, once I went home because of the problems I have.
That doesn't mean I wasn't in a lot of pain though.

Funny thing, both my kids and hubby reverse react with pain meds and can go 24 hours without any sleep on them.

The doc did give me a script for percocet 10/325 after my surgery and I had my hubby fill it at the hospital while I was in surgery.
When I woke up, all my pain was gone. I didn't feel any pain from the surgery for several hours after. Didn't even notice it till I got out of bed to show that I could walk, without a problem, keep oral pain meds down, and climb the PT steps.
Felt very woosy from the percoet they gave me and dizzy, but since this was an ortho floor, there where railings on the wall to hold on to and they didn't expect me to be running around.
Passed the test and was discharged, but because of the distance to go home, the insisted that I had to take 1 perc before leaving. I slept in the car from it and had help getting in the house to sit down.

I took one later that night when I went to bed and one the next morning and all I could do was sleep. Not good, as you have to walk and move. Next thing I knew, I was running a low grade temp and called the doc. right away. He told my hubby and friend as well as me that I was spending too much time lying down and starting to develop hypstatitic pneumonia. I had to sit up more and move.

OK, fine, but couldn't do it with the percocet and was so groggy I couldn't sit up.
Got me a great hubby and friend, let me tell you. The litterally tied me up while I was sitting on a dining room chair, had me use the breathing gadget I was supposed to use and flooded me with water to get the perc out of me. Both held me up to walk and then retied me in the chair. That was the end of the perc. went to tylenol for the nagging type pain whne I needed it and did my walking.

As far as I was told, the only IV pain med I got was one dose of demerol run in at the end of the surgery and for about an hour after, along with a high dose antibiotic, which is normal. 2 hours after surgery, the IV was pulled and it was oral pain meds.

My surgery was "minimally invasive". I inch incision, laminotomy and a shaving of the lateral articulate in the vertebrae of L4.L5. only 1 stitch on the outside.

Marie, ask your doc what he thinks about the toliet riser thing. and what is your bathroom set up like to help you get up off the toilet.

great idea with the barbecue tongs. I fogot about those. I used them too. Just make sure that they go together well. some of them don't and some are really good.

I know a couple of people now who have had surgery with my spine doc, some the same as me and some a little more complicated and none of them had terrible pain after surgery.
It does depend on the type of surgery being done, a person's pain tolerance etc.

Remember that you can't use any anti-inflamatories post op. they thin the blood and can cause bleeding.
I tried vicodan once and slept for 19 hours from one pill. great for sleeping, but not for helping to control my pain.

Again, ask the doc about what you can expect from pain, what his other patients have experienced and you can then get an idea of what you might expect. Does he tell you to use ice along with any pain meds? mine did and I looked at him and said, "ice has never helped before, why would it now?" he just grinned and said "and you have never had spinal surgery before have you? use the ice, you'll like it, trust me."

He was right, it really did help with the some of the swelling.

Speaking of swelling. Please, please, please ask your doc about swelling and bruising post op. and where you might expect any swelling and bruising to be.
I never thought about it before and my doc didn't mention it. Trust me, he will never forget to tell a patient again nor will his PAs or anyone else in that office.

Oh my gosh, I couldn't believe the bruising and swelling and where the swelling was. That' hurt far more than any incision I had.

Being that we are both L4,L5,S1 and your doc is doing a 1 inch incision like mine did. Expect to have lots of bruising around the incision site, beside it above it, below it. And be prepared for, trust me you don't want to hear this, a butt at least once size bigger than you already have.
how's that for post op problem?

M ake sure you have underwear that is at least one size bigger than you normally wear as the swelling will start getting bad the day after surgery.

Guys this info is for you too.

Be sure and have loose fitting pants too, like sweat pants and things like that. and be sure you have really loose fitting shorts before surgery as you will need them for PT

My daughter had to rush out and by me about a dozen pairs of underwear one size bigger than I wear because mine wouldn't fit.

I was also bruised in my middriff and my abdomen and it was sore.
Couldn't wear a bra for about a week.

Oh did I blow at my doc for not telling me this stuff in advance. He thought it was really funny until I said to him> "now how would you like to wake up the day afte surgery and be bruised all over the place and have no underwear to fit you and no way to go buy any cause some doc didn't tell you what to expect and to top it off, the doc laughs at you when you blow up at him for not telling you?/ He got the point and really was upset with himself for not telling me in advance.

The next time I went in to see him for a post op visit, he showed me the new paper work info for paitents and yup, the info on the the swelling and stuff, includig underwear and loose fitting clothes was right there and in capital letters and bold type.

You're friend is right about the first few weeks. The body has been attackd by having surgery. It's response is to activate the immune system to heal the body from the attack of scalpel, bleeding etc. that puts a strain on the body and drains you of strength. It takes time to heal from all that stuff.
3 weeks sounds about right. That's when I got the orders for PT. I was still somewhat butt swollen, but ready to get to work with PT and get back the muscle strenght I had lost.
I will tell you that after a work out of PT, I came home totally exhausted the first few visits, but that got better too as time went on.

How long are you expecting to be in the hospital?

Oh, I sent you an e-mail too.

Fran

I am on my way to the hospital this AM for my Pre Op Testing.
Gee, I have to write more questions down for my doctor. I already have a page full. Well I'll add another page.

I'm told I will be in the hospital post op for 3 days but that will be judged on my response.

I expected the bruising around the incision, but I didn't even guess the problem with the bum.

Carrianne, did you have swelling anywhere on your bottom? I don't think any of the Laser post op people mentioned that.

It is true that not only do you have to research everything about spinal surgery but you have got to know about post op too. I think it is important because you get thrown out of hospitals so fast after surgery today. I talked to my sister-in-law (she had spinal surgery too) and in our converssation she remembered her mother was in the hospital for 45 days after spinal surgery. Everything was done in the hospital then and you didn't have to make sure you had every emergency covered.

Well I have to get in the car and head north for the Pre Op testing.
Then Nov. 9 will be a little bit closer. Can't wait to get all of this behind me.

Marie B.

Marie,

No, no bruising at all, not even at the incision. It was swollen for a few days but that's it.

Know that we are all here routing for you! I wish you the very best today with your pre op, your upcoming surgery, your recovery and GETTING YOUR LIFE BACK!!!

Best wishes and God bless you,
Carrianne

Good morning Terri!

Yes, the dura leak was an unfortunate experience, to say the least. I know, though, that it could have been much worse. As long as I laid flat (with no pillow) I was ok. It shouldn't have lasted as long as it did but the first 2 blood patches didn't take because I got sick and vomitted. The pressure and strain to the chord blew the patch. Once they took me off that medicine (Levaquin) and did another blood patch, I was on complete bedrest for 2 days and the headache was gone when I was able to sit up.

I'd probably say my pain level before surgery was a 6 for my back and a 8 or 9 for my legs. It wasn't a constant pain, but mainly motion provoked (bending, twisting, turning, arching my back, sitting or standing too long, etc.) When I did these things it spiked up to a 8.

I'm still healing and still feel certain pains, but on average I'd say my pain level is probably a 3 on my back and a 4 or 5 on my legs. Definitely better, but a ways to go still.

One big success was that I was able to go to my husband's art show a couple weeks ago and I stood for a total of 3 hours without sitting once! I could never do that before! I also get out of bed without pain and can pick things up off the floor if I drop them. I try not to bend too much, but if no one's around what do you do? hee hee Anyway, before surgery if I were to bend down to the floor I'd have a lot of pain as I stood up and it'd take me a few seconds before I was able to stand up completely.

All in all, I feel that there was no other option for me than laser. With the exception of the dura leak, I had a great recovery. My first surgery I walked an hour the very next day and went off my pain meds (Darvocet) maybe the next day. I didn't even feel like I needed them. I also started physical therapy the next day. For the second surgery I was taking them more for the headache than for my back (because Darvocet has tylenol in it). I can't wait until I'm cleared for physical therapy and am anxious to see what it has in store for me.

Hope that helps and sorry if it became more detailed than you wanted. My fingers tend to do the thinking when I'm typing. I certainly hope that your mother finds relief with the decompression. Please keep us informed! Just out of curiosity, is it Vax-D? I have a friend from work who swears by it!

Best wishes and God bless you and your mother!!
Carrianne

I just had a minute and wanted to stop by and say hello. I started working
part time and my son is playing so much hockey that I rarely have time to
catch up with my freinds here.I am feeling great.I still have minor issues but
they do not slow me down. Hope everyone is doing well.

Joe

Surgery in 4 Hours. Not very nervous yet but we will see. I will let you all know what is up in a couple of days.

God Bless Everyone!

David

Hi everyone.
My we certainly are busy these days.
My Pre Op is about completed. Just one more back up test...ECG. And after all of the blood testing, I thought I might not have enough left for me to get up and leave the place. The phlebotomists have their problems getting into my veins. My inner elbows have big black and blue marks and they even made an attempt at my wrists and hands. I hope anesthesia has less trouble starting an IV.
Dave is off for surgery. Joe bob stops in for a visit. Fran always has interesting things to say and Carrianne is always there for a caring word.
We even get a word or two from Stuart Little Guy. This is a great group! I hope there are other Forums out there who give their posters such support.

Fran, I saw my doctor again and presented my final questions.
I think I gave my doctor and his nurse some merry moments as they responded to my questions.

In the 11 years that his nurse has been with him in surgery, there has never been a case of swelling in the gluteous maximus of any kind. He does not expect bruising anywhere around the incision although he does order ice because ice keeps the tissues calm. And get this, I don't know if I am going to have to wear a brace!
They use steri strips on the exterior incision and the inner stitches dissolve (which I already knew) I was advised to use Glad "press and seal" plastic wrap over my incision when taking a shower for approximately 10 days, but no harm if the steri strips come off a little earlier.

He doesn't believe I will need a walker post op either but if I need one it will be available. No PT. He has had some difficulties with PT because patients' spines have been over taxed by some PT's and the patients have returned to him complaining of pain. Would you believe, one PT had a patient put a 10 pound weight on their ankle and do lifts with it? Yet that is what happened.

In regard to bending and twisting where fusion is concerned. His biggest concern is when the motion is a repetitive motion over a long period of time. So, I can use toilet paper.
Hubby was relieved by the statement but he stuck out his lip when he learned he would still have to be involved with laundry. And there will no no sweeping for at least 4 to 6 week.
When I leave this doctor, I always leave feeling "I can do this and I will be better." Can't wait to get it all out of the way though. To just think there is a time in my future when I won't have to get out of bed in the morning and drop drugs into my system makes me very happy.

Grateful Rick to you and to all all for this Forum.

Marie B

Carol. Where are you????

One of my Pre Op Tests is a Adinosine Cardiolyte Scan.
My PCP wants this since I am having major surgery and he wants to make sure my heart is AOK since I am a little ol lady.

Marie B.

Hello Dave,

Your surgery is now complete. We were there in mind and spirit. Now your recovery slowly begins.

Rest as best you can and we look forward to "hearing" from you.

RichT

I feel great! I have absolutely no pre-op pain(Left Leg pain from the top of my butt dow to the toes-Numbness,weakness,tingling,vibrations ) left. A little pain at the incision (2-3) But I've been Icing constantly which helps a ton. My Surgeon was awesome. The Surgery Only took 45 minutes. I had a Scoped Microdiscectomy at L5-S1.
I was able to walk by noon yesterday with no pain. My left foot is straight, my hips are level, my shoulders are back. It is amazing how a 13mm piece of disc can cause so much havoc. I have been living with this pain for 18 months and in 45 minutes it's gone. Praise the Lord. My re-hab is as follows.

1 Month nothing basically. (No lifting over 5 lbs,no twisting,no bending at the waist)
6 Weeks light PT (Stretches and very light exercises)
8 Weeks Heavy PT (Intense Core Therapy)

I want thank everybody for their thoughts and prayers.

I had a Neurosugeon and would highly recommend the one I had.
You just have to Get to Minnesota.

If anyone has any specific questions let me know.

I'll keep updating weekly.

David