Hello Carrie,

Just wondering how you are doing with that nasty herniated disc. Hope you are getting some relief with the Vicodin. May I ask what your doctor's recommendations are?

Have you checked out the web sites of LSI and Bonati?

Take care.

RichT

Okay Everyone, it is time to CELEBRATE. Page 23 is HERE!!! WOW 440 posts and 8442 "views".

RichT

Hello Fran,

AHHHHhhh you have been a very busy lady!!!! Excellent words of advice and wisdom. (even about the back scrubbers, etc.) SUPER thoughts to Marie as she prepares for her surgery.

"The answer is simple. You know when it's right because your entire life is swallowed up by this back stuff and pain. When life really doesn't exist and there is a surgical option, you go for it and hope for the best. True! I've "lost" some things like not being able to go the the wedding my wife is now attending. The ONE thing most important to me that I can still do is my gardening. I can still bend, twist,lift, and smell the flowers. As long as I can still do my gardening I'll keep the knife away.

Fran, thanks for all the help you are giving to members of our spiney family, AND to all those that just "look in".

RichT

Hello Madismama,

I hope that you will soon get some positive action from Kaiser. Are you in one of their managed health care (HMO) plans? Would it help perhaps if your "very good surgeon" wrote a letter to Kaiser telling them of your needs as he/she sees the situation with your back from a medical doctor's perspective? I'd sure give it a try.

Another thought - Do you have your insurance through work or that of your husband? If so, are you able to switch to another company?

Do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

RichT

Hello Mare,

Very good. If it works don't knock it.

So very glad that this time around you will be having minimally invasive back surgery. Far better than what you had to go through before.

Regarding being told you could not ask questions of the neurosurgon - THAT'S downright sinful. I would like to use a few four letter words but best I not do so. HOW can medical scools permit someone like that to get their doctor's license? Fran's doc needs to get his book on how doctors should communicate with patients published PRONTO!!!

Mare, you have been there. I know your thoughts and prayers will be especially meaningful to Marie.

I hope and pray your upcoming surgery is successful and that your recovery goes well. AND do by all means ask QUESTIONS. Don't let any doc or medical person intimidate you.

Take care.

RichT

Hello Fran,

Back again.

WOW!!! Thanks for sharing your dream. If only some day it could/would come true.

When I was in college I remember asking my grandmother if she ever longed for the "good ole days". She didn't hesitate for even a fraction of a second. She said "NO, don't you remember diphtheria, small pox, etc. No inside plumbing, no electricity." And she lived in a very small simple home that most of us would not accept today.

On to future generations - The world today and the way in which it is headed makes my wife and I extremely concerned for the next generation and those to come.

I truly hope there is a planet somewhere in this universe where there is life with peace understanding respect and no pain.

EXCELLENT words of advice and wisdom to Madismama. You were right on in every way. Fran, you are INVALUABLE!!!!!

On the lite side - Your leg shaving post cracked me up. AND yet as always good thoughts and solutions to "difficulties".

Have a WONDERFUL Day!

RichT

Hello Carol,

I/we miss you. I hope that you can spare a few minutes and give us a little update.

I wish you the best and hope your back pain is not as severe as it was.

Take care.

RichT

Hello Carrianne,

I hope that this post finds your recovery from laser surgery going better than earlier. I think of you and what you have gone through often.

Say hello to your mom and husband from us.

Wish you the best.

RichT

Rich, After 6 months of pain, with Ultracet and Advil, I had my first MRI in January.
The Radiologist stated in big letters at the bottom of the typed MRI Report.
"Must see a spinal specialist immediately!" My PMC advised me to go to a local surgeon. Even after his saying that, I would not go to the surgeon first. I wanted to go to ...an Ohio Pain Management Clinic. Even knowing this, my PMC's office still contacted the surgeon's office to call me to make an appointment. I told the surgeon's office, I was not ready to see the surgeon. That's when I went the the Ohio Clinic for Pain Management.
My first steroid injection was a Lumbar Injection, done at the end of February.
I had 10 days of no pain and then it all came back. They do injections here in series of 3 and only one time a year. The second injection was at the end of March. Never had any days when I was not having one type of pain either buttocks & legs, or the back . These two months I kept off meds as much as possible. When I went back in April for my 3rd injection, I told my PM Dr. that the two Lumbar Injections never gave me very much freedom from pain. He told me that the goal was to get me pain free. On that 3rd injection, the Dr. changed it from Lumbar Injection to Transforaminal Injections; given as two separate injections. One at the L4 and one at the L5 site. I had 3 days of some pain relief and immediately went back to the pain stage of 7 & 8.

I was given a 4th appointmentin May and when I got to the Clinic, I was told that I would be given the Transforaminal Injection as before. Again it was at the L4& 5 as two separate injections. I went home and found myself almost immediately on pain meds again because there was no relief.
June was the last of the Transforaminal Injections and again they were at the L4&L5 as before. Nothing....absolutely no pain relief. There was a total of 5 visits, but a total of 8 injections.

In July as I struggled to stay off meds, I had a terrible episode of pain with the buckling of knees as I tried to do housework, I could barely climb steps without severe pain and a loud crunching snap in the lower back. I called my PMC and he sent me to the surgeon he had advised before. This surgeron advised a very aggressive procedure ...open back, 8 inch incision, Discectomy, Laminectomy on 2 vertebrae, Fusion with instrumentation.
Oh yes, I was to give blood prior to surgery. I could expect 6 months recovery period and at least a year before I might feel better. There were no promises that this surgery might not create problems for the rest of my spine, eg. thoracic area where I have mild stenosis and other herniated discs.

My PM doctor sent me to whom he considered the best surgeon at the Ohio Spine Institute. That doctor is the one who will perform the Min. Invas. surgery procedure on me in November. I will have a lamenectomy and Fusion Institu of the L45 Level. My surgeon said if he just took care of the stenosis and not the spondy, he could not guarantee that there would not still be back pain, although the buttock and leg pain should be relieved. So I was faced with Fusion. LSI nor Bonati when I researched them would deal with Spondy.

Steroid Injections were a dead end for me, Rich. They gave me no relief.
If I had had any relief from just one of them, I might have continued to try to get one....but after 8 in 5 months, I had already gone past the usual limit for them in a year. And with no relief at all, the suggestion was that my stenosis was so wide based, blocking the nerve canal, that the steroid injections were not aiding enough to reduce the pain level.

That is why the need for the Laminectomy and not a laminotomy. The surgeon has to take the roof of the vertebrae and some of both sides of the lamina off just to relieve the pressure on the cauda equina. He will do some other things like removing bone spurs, relieving the two pincched nerves and also seeing how the disc is effected once the pressure is off. And that is even before he deals with the spondy that is present at the same level.

I know that it isn't the best or clearest explanation for why the surgery instead of staying with injections. But that is how messed up my spine is. I can only hope the surgery will be successful enough and give me freedom from pain.

I do hope you will be able to continue without surgery.
Your comment about not being able to go to the wedding with your wife, made me understand that you have compromised with your back situation. And I'm glad you have some periods of freedom from pain.
I wish my situation could be the same. My back pain just ain't choosing to go away easily. I also don't want to give up any more of my life to it after dealing with it for one year and 4 months. I just reached a point where it takes too many meds and too often for me to compromise in anyway.
If two Celebrex held me....well then I would consider staying on the meds.But the next thing I know is that I need something stronger because I just can't do anything when the pain runs rampant. The pain has controlled too much of my life already and needless to say it certainly has hit the pocketbook way too much.

As to if this surgery is the right choice???? I've done as much as I could. Now the rest is in God's Hands.

Marie B.

Hi Marie!

After my first surgery I was given an instruction sheet of things NOT to do. Basically, no extreme bending, twisting, turning, stretching,lifting, etc. for 6 weeks. After that it said you can resume normal activities slowly (key word). I began PT at The Bonati Institute the day after my surgery and went for 4 consecutive days. After I went home, I continued PT there using the very conservative protocol that the PT dept. from Bonati sent to them. Of course, I only went twice because I had my second surgery the next week.

The post op instructions for my second surgery were pretty much the same, but more conservative because of my dura leak. Same as above, except they said absolutely no PT for at least 3 months from the date of my last surgery. And also, the only exercise I'm able to do is walk. Nothing else. So, I make sure to walk at least one hour everyday.

I didn't drive for 6 weeks. Thankfully my husband and mom drove around Miss Daisy! I wasn't given exact instructions on how long to wait, but wanted to be conservative.

I'll be interested to see what changes I feel once I'm able to start PT. Right now I feel very stiff, but I was ok'd for massage so I'm getting one/month. Wish it weren't so expensive or I'd go every weekend!

Hope that helps answer your questions!

Thanks Rich! That's very encouraging to me and your last statement there is what I must always remember! "God will help you through this I know." Very powerful and it applies to everyone no matter what trials we face!

Hope you're feeling well and have a fantastic day!!!
Best wishes and God bless,
Carrianne

MJ,

That makes me so happy that you have family near The Bonati Institute. I'm so grateful that we were able to stay at my husband's uncle's house. It really made my recovery so much more comfortable. Not to mention it saved us so much money not having to stay in a hotel, especially because I was there 4 weeks between both surgeries.

I wish you the very best with your upcoming surgery and know we'll all be routing and praying for you! And again, if you need anything while you're in Hudson, I'm only an hour away and would be more than happy to help!

God bless,
Carrianne

HAPPY 23 PAGES!!!

This is truly a great milestone for me because my faith was really put to the test toward the end of the other forum and I felt hurt by the actions taken to break it.

Carol started a great family there and another tried to "modify" it, but guess what friends? It continues here! Thank you Carol, thank you Rich, and thank you PAGE 23 for getting and keeping us all together!

Best wishes and God bless!
Carrianne

Folks, I made a mistake in my last post. I said "When I researched LSI and Bonnati, they would deal with the spondy." I meant to say "they would not deal with the spondy (the key words here being "would not") except that a Lamenectomy should handle the pain. Maybe they will change this in the future, but since I am now committed to going in one direction, I'll stick with it.

Marie B

Walking, walking Walking. I guess that is the best PT.
Did anyone talk to you about water exercises? Up here they push that a lot.
Not necessarily immediately post surgery but at least 4 o 6 weeks afterware.
Then there are others who have Min Invasive surgery and don't have to have any PT. Puzzling. I've talked to so many former back sufferes and there are so many different doctors involved, I can't do a good reserch project.

I know that I will be walking and walking. I just wish I could move south, or be a snow bird so I could have good weather to at least stand in a swimming pool and just walk in the water. 'Course I have to admit, at my age, I don't particularly want to get into a bathing suit.
I'm not the babe I used to be.
Marie B.

Marie,

Trust me when I say this. You DON'T want to walk in the heat! It's miserable! I have a fitness room in the building that I work which is great, but when I was out on disability I did half of my walking in the mall.

After my first surgery they had me in the pool two days later. Since my second, they haven't said anything about aqua therapy, but my PT place doesn't have a pool. Bummer because I liked it a lot.

Have a good night everyone!
God bless,
Carrianne

Here is my story.

I am a 30 Year old male

I work for a company called 1-800-got-junk?. I was a driver and loader for this company and my injury is from all of the heavy lifting and driving every day. 100lbs lifts many times a day.

I will list the timeline of my problems.

May 2006- I started getting low back pain that seemed like more than just muscle ache. I saw my physician and he sent me to physical therapy. I went to the Pa for 3-4 weeks with 2 sessions of Traction. I would say I was 80-90% pain free at the end. I couldn't afford to stay out of work any longer even though it was workmans comp and I got paid (very little). I worked for the next 8 months with on and off pain in my lower back.

Feb 2007 - The pain was pretty bad again so I decided to see a chiropractor and within a couple of weeks was feeling about 60-70% better. I worked through this episode.

July 2007 - After 4 months of working in Pain everyday I just couldn't take it any more and went to a new Chiropractor and he took me off work. I was treated by him for about a month with 2 massages every week and I felt like things were taking a turn for the better. That lasted for about a week and then I've been down hill since. I believe as well as my Chiro that the Muscles around my back and rear-end where so knotted up that the herniated disc was somewhat protected and gave way after being loosened up after 12 - 1 hour massages(I have had massages prior to my back injury and i loved them. Unfortunately deep tissue massage in this situation was very painful. I can't wait to have a massage again and actually enjoy it.)

So anyway because of the worsening pain I had an X-ray that showed some wearing in the L5-S1 joint. The Radiologist suggested an MRI which I was very happy to do because I wanted to know what was wrong with me. Well the MRI showed a 13mm herniation to the left side. This didn't shock me because I did a lot of research and my symptoms pointed to this. The Place that did my MRI suggested an epidural injection which I tried and it didn't work. I tried different pain meds also with no avail (Percocet works a little but my upset stomach makes it hard to take). I am slowly weening myself off of it. I started going to a Spine center and they suggested another epidural which unfortunately did not work and made my left leg pain worse every day. I also got sick of not being able to talk to my doc but having to go through his Secretary and Then his PA.

About a week ago I decided I've had enough pain and pain meds and the spine institue and decided to see a Nuro Surgeon that came highly recommended and he confirmed the MRI results and Said he believed he could relieve me of the pain I am having.

Right now my leg pain and upper glute area are constantly on fire.

I got approval from my workmans comp insurer yesterday for Surgery and Have Schedueled it for Next Tuesday the 30th. I am so excited because I really believe in this Surgeon and I am 100% positive he is right about the needed surgery. (The sugery is a Microdisectomy)

This quote is exactly the feeling I have -
"The answer is simple. You know when it's right because your entire life is swallowed up by this back stuff and pain. When life really doesn't exist and there is a surgical option, you go for it and hope for the best. "

It is nice to see what other people are going through and have someone to listen that knows exactly what your going through.

I researched Laser surgery and just didn't think it was right for me.

David
Minneapolis

Hello David,

Welcome to this thread and the great people who post here. AHHHhhh, and it is especially nice you live in Minneapolis. A very special city. My wife and I were born and raised in southern Minnesota and lived in the suburb of Burnsville back in the 60's/early '70s.

David, I'm glad you have found a spine surgeon that you really like and have faith in. That is so very important.

Sorry to read the epidural did not work for you.

A question if I may - has your spine surgeon talked with you about what you will be able to do and not do after you have recovered from the surgery? Does he think you will be able to go back to the same job and lift 100 lb again?

I wish you the very best. My thoughts and prayers are and will be with you in the days ahead. Do keep us posted.

RichT

Thanks Rich, I do love this great state. I lived in Rochester for a couple of years also. Boy is Burnsville Growing. Where do you live now?

Unfortunately I do not think I will ever be able to go back to my original work because of the extent of the lifting and what not. It is sad because I loved the job. The good news is that my insurer may pay for re-training in a different field. It's 3:05 here and I am wide awake. I would have to agree with someone who posted to this forum a while back and say that Percocet is definately not a good long term pain Med. With my upset stomach and the Withdraw Symptoms it is tough. I fugure if I can get through the next 7 days without it I will be doin' myself a favor.

As many have said Joe seems like a great role model and if I can have the sucess in recovery that he did I would be very greatful. Along with my Surgery I am going to change my lifestyle(Diet, Excercise,etc). I never want to spend this much time in pain again.

My Niece that I haven't seen since my wedding 4 yrs ago is Flying in From San Antonio this afternoon so hopefully that will be a great time and help me take my mind off of my pain.

My neck is so stiff from reading all of these post in the last 24 hours WOW!

Have a great day!

I was curious about the type of operation I was going to have and stumbled onto a couple hour long videos on Youtube showing a Microdisectomy. It is a little scary to see them in such a small place doing what they do but it really helped in my decision for Surgery. My father had "open back" surgery in the 80's and I wasn't going there. Check it out. Just type in "Microdiscectomy".

*Warning* Don't watch these videos if you are squeemish.