Hi Lee
At the risk of sounding dense...how do we PM someone on this forum (I assume PM means personal message)? Do we have to have someones email?
Mare

Hello Jimare,

Not dense at all Jimare. It is not very readily "visible" on getting to the PM section. That is one thing that the Admin could work on in my humble opinion. This is the first Admin of a forum which has even asked for input from posters and they deserve a a big "thank you" for doing so.

Okay, how do you get to the PMs? - At the top of the screen click on "log in". Then log in. You will next see a window with a baby photo. Look towards the top and you will see "Private Messages". Click on it and you will be there. On the upper left side you will see "New Message". Click on it and you can begin your message.

I hope that Lee can give you a better simpler way to post a PM with better detail.

Have a good day.

RichT

Ok, so it's a smile, but not sure if I should be smiling or not.

New MRI shows "perfect surgery results of minimal partial laminotomy and decompression of L4,L5,S1 and release of nerves from lateral recess.

Very slight stenosis in "next vertebrae up, no nerve impingment seen"

Arthritic involvement, noted in past 2 MRI has spread considerably and is probably the cause of pain patient is complaining about and causing muscles to strain on right side, swell and put pressure on piriformis muscles and compress sciatic nerve and spread down to tibial nerve.


So that's the docs belief of the MRI pics and it matches the reading that I brought him along with the MRI pics.

His suggestion is to have lidocaine injections into the facet areas of the vertebrae, I think 4 of them and see if it numbs the pain right away.
If it does, then he suggest RFA on all of them that respond to the the lidocaine. RFA is radio frequency ablation on the nerves.
He said if he works, it should last at least 18 months and if the pain returns can be done again and the pain shouldn't be as bad as now.

Talked with PM and will be sedated for the lidocaine injections but just numbed for the RFA. Now I used to have one hell of a strong pain threshold except in my mouth. But these days, since the back stuff started, seems like I have none.
I'm not eager to have this RFA thing done and be awake. I've read about some real bad horror stories about them realling being painful.
Also read on another forum about a women who got twilight sedation for the RFA. awake to tell doc she felt something, then out again, till he did the next one.

PM said that I could have some really strong muscle spasms for a few days after the facet injections, so am not going to have it done till after the 21st of OCT. have to do a big craft show on the 21st and can't be worse than I am now or not be able to assemble my stuff over the next few weeks.

Then, if it works, wouldn't have the RFA done until after Nov. 17th as have one more huge show to do and that one I can't miss for sure. Can't forgo the income of a couple thousand dollars I make at that one.

So should I be happy? about the new DX or should I be sad that there are new problems developing since successful surgery.
Right now I'm just rolling my eyes and thinking what is the doc going to find wrong next

OK, he did remind me that I should have known that the surgery was a success and not failed. Just look at me now vs 16 months ago. Had to admit he was 100% right on that.

Rich, doc was all but rolling on the floor with laughter over being told what you said about him. He doesn't see himself as that wonderful or doing anything special. I keep telling him that we need to clone him a couple of thousand times over and spread him all over the country to see patients and we have to spread him all over to every medical school in the country and the world so that he can teach med students the correct way to treat patients both emotionally and physically with their problems. Most of all, I told him, he needs to teach med students to carefully listen to their patients and what they say is going on with them, how they feel, and what they think.

My hubby told him "in your spare time, you should write a book that becomes mandatory for all med students to study and pass a course in about how to treat patients properly."

Well guess what? He's half way through the book and now is looking for lists of all the things that docs do wrong in treating patients to include in the book.

So everyone, he asked me to ask all of you to send me those lists so I can give them to him.

Fran

Fran, I'm glad you added the tidbit about the dye being used in second MRI's, post surgery. I'm going to assume that dye and contrast means the same thing. I wondered when there was a need for contrast or not during an MRI. You provided me an answer. Thank You!
You mean after all you have been through, you "trust" an MRI Report getting to your Dr. without clutching that hot little item in your own hands and putting it in his hands personally? Don't you want to read the Report yourself first? I get my PCP to get the Report, put it in my files, and then I get a copy for myself, and then I make sure the surgeon gets to see both the Report and the CD of the MRI. And I hand it to him personally. With my experiences, I don't trust those "in between" people anymore.
Gosh, Fran, I hope you only have something wrong that can easily be fixed. Something easy for once. You don't need to be on those horses again with the floaters that you had develop. Did your floaters ever settle down post op?

Talk about having a black cloud over one's head. I took my meds Tuesday and was determined to clean, spotlessly, the bed rooms I would be having guests in this weekend. I looked out the window and saw a big old spider web that needed to be knocked down. I opened the window to knock it down and got smacked in the neck by a hornet.
There were dozens of them preparing to bed down for the winter. Now not only do I have an aching back but I have a swollen neck that reminds one of what a goiter looked like in the days before thyroid meds and surgery. Taking Benadryl and using Calamine Spray on the itchy, swollen skin. You know guys, "we live in a world of pain."
I'm now trying to discover ways to hide my neck with a fancy scarf so no one see it. Wish hiding my back pain was just as simple.

Hope your week end will be sunny, and healthy?

Marie B.

Marie, glad to provide the info about the dye. Dye and contrast are the same thing. I didn't know why and, being nosey and it is my body that is getting the dye stuff, I asked.

As for bringing the report with me to the docs office. I trust this facility to get it there to him without a problem. they are on the basement level of the docs office building, he is on the second floor and the docs practice owns the building, they had it custom built for their needs and they rent space to this particular MRI facility.
I had the MRI films with me to give to the doc, they keep the originals on a disc alongs with my other ones.

It takes time to read and interpret the MRI films. There are about 18-24 pages of films to look at, depending on the type of MRI done. I don't want a rush job and not have correct results. Besides, my doc reads the MRI's himself, will already have looked at them on disc before my appt. and only looks at the report after he has seen the MRI pics and done his reading. The reason he and the rest of the docs in his office prefer having films to look at with the patient is that it's easier to show the patient what is going on with the large films up on the film reader to see than everyone trying to hang over a computer screen and the pic is small.
With this facility, he rarely disagrees with the reports. Only once in the past 5 years, which is a pretty good record.

Would you believe that there are some spine surgeons and ortho docs and neurosurgery docs that can't read an MRI and rely soley on the MRI report for their info and facts.
Now that is scarey.

By the time I arrive for my appt. there is a copy of the MRI report in my chart, ready to give me before I leave and a copy of it has been sent to my PCP as well.

If I had the MRI done in another facility, believe me, I would return to pick up the report and bring it to the doc. I've had those screwups in the past.

As for something wrong and easily fixed, I don't think so. Arthritis can't be corrected and removed. It's there for good and will always create a problem. The spread of it was a surprise to both doc and me, but it does happen.
PT is usually the first line of treatment, to strengthen the core muscles, but we tried that and it didn't work.
The doc thinks that is part of the cause of the muscle strain and tear and the PT didn't work to heal the muscle because the arthritis has gotten worse in the spine.
Since I'm not standing up straight anymore, I'm continuing to pull on the injured muscle and preventing it from healing, so the muscle is getting worse and more inflammed and now pressing on the piriformis, which is pressing on the sciatic nerve.

He really believes that the arthritis is causing the problem and if we deaden the nerves to the facets, we will be able to heal the muscles and get the strength back in the core ones which have weakened from lack of exercise because of the other muscle being torn and so sore.

So we will see. Having the facet injections tested on Oct 29th in the morning and we will know for sure by that night, I think, if it is the problem.

The floaters are never going to go away. they will settle for a time and then move again. Many times I don't even notice them as Ive learned to live with them. I always wear sunglasses outside which cuts the brightness and makes them less noticible to me.
The other thing is that they get worse or reappear if I haven't had enough fluid to drink. Even if I think I'm well hydrated, those spider web looking things will always tell me if I'm not. Drink an extra glass of water and presto, out of sight again.

Oh those darn hornets, wasps and bees. I know how you feel. I had the same thing happen to me last summer. I was planting a seedling in one of my flower beds and had the hole dug, stooped down, got in in well and it was OMG, I knew something stung me on the right side of my upper thigh.
thankfully my hubby was home and I went screaming to him, to come help me. I didn't know if a stinger was left in my pants or not and sure couldn't see.
Talk about swelling, pain and itching. Thought it would never go away. iced and iced it, with big time problems trying to sit, cause the pressure made it hurt more and the swelling just spread and spread. Then the itch. felt like a thousand misquito bites. Lasted a week and then you would never know it happened.

Now my daughter thought it was just hysterical. She couldn't stop laughing and I could say to her was she was lucky she has her own place, cause I no doupt would have smacked her for laughing at me, it wasn't funny.

She did have a point though, of all the people in the world to not watch what they where doing is me. Geez, I grew up on a semi summer farm of veggies and flowers. Whole life out in gardens sowing seeds, weeding, planting, harvesting and never stung.
As she put it, "Mom, you should no better than that, to always look before you stoop".
Usually I do, but all I could think of was OMG, this year I'm stooping down and on hands and knees and planting my own gardens again. A year ago I was only 4 days post op from spinal surgery. The last thing on my mind was thinking about getting stung by a bee, hornet or wasp.

I'm beginning to think "us spineys" are just destined to be in some kind of pain no matter what we do. Even the bees, hornets and wasps won't give us any peace and let us live without pain.

Marie, keep lots of ice on that next, it will help with the swelling and I found that hydrocortisone cream worked better than the calamine spray. be careful you aren't combining benadryl with caladryl. that's calamine lotion with benadryl in it, can be and overdose of benadryl. have a friend that did that and becareful combining benadryl with pain meds.

Pouring rain again, oh what heaven that is. been without rain for so long we almost forgot what it looked like.

And that rain is going to end in the morning and dry out enough to play the first game of the American league series in Boston. OH YES, and my daughter won 2 tickets to the game and is taking her boyfriend with her.
They where at the first game at Fenway to for the other series too.

The sun will be out Saturday, in the sky and in our hearts too. REDSOX NATION will be smiling with one game won.

You know where I'll be tomorrow night, right infront of the TV watching the game. Standing, sitting and walking around the room.


GO RED SOX

Fran

Fran
Good luck to you on your Facet Injections. Being free of pain, even for a little while is a blessings. It has been so long since I have had a day without pain I can't remember the last one. Sometimes I have a few hours and ahhhhhh it feels sooooo good.

Your Dr. sounds like a rare gem.
WHAT DRS. DO THAT ANNOY ME.
In my opinion a lot of Drs. treat the old like 2nd class citizens...when they are accompanied by their husband, son or daughter they ask the son or daughter if their parent would like this or that, or they say "Is she taking medication to sleep?" instead of asking the parent directly..."Are YOU taking medication to sleep". It irks me when a Dr. treats me like I am invisible, or can't speak for myself. I noted it when I used to take my mother to the Dr. and they asked me instead of her. My Mother was quite feisty and would speak up and say "Would you mind directing your comments to me; I am NOT senile, you know!"...and now I am experiencing the same humiliation.

Another is taking away your HOPE, especially in a blunt unfeeling way. "You have 7 degenerating discs and there's nothing we can do about it, so you will just have to live with it." Kindness goes a long way in helping to swallow a bitter pill. Our friend has a tumour on his brain, and has become partially blind, and partially paralyzed because of the tumour.The Drs. gave him 3 months to live. Much to their surprise, 6 months later the new MRI shows his tumour is shrinking. Now they are thinking he just might have a chance of surviving, but his Dr. told him "but you will never get your sight back like it was and you will probably remain paralyzed because the nerves that the tumour pressed on has caused permanent damage." He was so happy when he was told he might live, but then the rug was yanked out from under him when he heard he will be half blind and paralyzed if he did live. He immediately lost HOPE and sank in to a depression.

Also, I don't think Drs. should get their knickers in a twist if you say you would like a 2nd opinion. They seem to feel so threatened. My husband has an eye specialist and he told the Dr. he would like another opinion before getting eye surgery for glaucoma, he totally lost it and said "if you do that, don't bother to come back." My former Dr. was like that. She felt so threatened if you asked to be referred to a specialist.

Anyhow those are a few of my complaints.
These opinions are based on personal experiences with former Drs.

Presently I go to a medical office with three Drs. that are all equally good considerate human beings. Although only one is considered my primary Dr., I have seen all three because they spell each other off. They even make house calls if the occasion calls for it.

Mare

Mare

I did read that right didn't I? House Calls!!! Doctors that make Housecalls! Wow!
I thought that went out along with the $5.00 doctor office visis with no appointment needed.

Marie B

Marie B
Yes you read that right. We live in a remote area (an Island on Lake Huron) and our Drs. get very busy in the summer with the big influx of tourists, but we still are able to get appt's in a decent amt. of time and the Drs. still make time to drop by the house to see their patients who are VERY ill and finding it difficult to come to the medical office. They run by the seniors home to visit some of their patients there, as well. If there is a need to see a specialist, we usually have to travel 2-1/2 hours to the city. We have never felt rushed, and have never had to sit in the waiting room more than 1/2 hour. Usually it's about 10 or 15 minutes.
We really feel quite blessed to have such good care in this day and age. It's a far cry from living in the city with the big shortages of Drs. Many people don't have their own Drs. and have to go to clinics and sit for hours, or go to emerg.

Mare

Marie, you read her correctly. My primary and his associates all make house calls when it is necessary. Have had a few in my home over the years.

And my spine doc does as well. He's made 2 of them to my home before my surgery.

Hard to believe, but there are some really good, caring docs out there.


Jmare, you've said a lot in what you don't like about some docs, and I've had a few of them in my time and experienced a few with my mother and my hubby.

That crap of asking me if my mother needs refills of her meds and my Mom was right here and far from senile, really got me. I wasn't afraid to say something to the doc either. "Excuse me, Dr. Wouldn't it be best to ask my mother if she needs refills on her meds? She's not senile, you do realize that, don't you? She can answer quite well for herself."
He didn't like it, and after that apt, I had my Mom change docs.

Giving a patient no hope, been there, done that too with my hubby. In 1974 he was DX with a malignant brain tumor in the sub arachnoid area of the left side of his brain. Decided to have grand mal seizures out of no where, 6 months before the CT was available for use.
Massive tests showed a mass and the chances of it being anything but a malignant tumor was all but nil.
Anyways, he was given 6 months to live and the neurosurgeon wanted to do minor type surgery on him, remove a piece of his skull and let the tumor grow out, relieving some pressure on his brain and let him have some bit of life over the next 6 months. At the time, there was very little treatment for brain tumors and this location had about zero response to treatment.

So we decided to get another opinion at the infamous Lahey Clinic, which was located in Boston at the time, before he made any decisions on what to do.
We saw the head of the neurosurg department and I'll never forget what he said to us. First he looked at the brain scan pics and the brain angiograms, then said, "Well, if I where you, I'd check out of the hospital, go home and watch some TV, have a bit of intimacy with "your wife or whom ever you want to have it with", and sit down, because you have about a week or 2 to live, then you are going to just fall over on the floor dead from a malignant brain tumor".

My husband stood up and passed out on the floor and that damn doc, just walked out of the room and left us there.
I had to get a nurse for help, he came too and he had to be sedated to be driven back to the hospital he was in.

The nurses where stunned at what he said, and I proceeded to leave my hubby with them, went out to the doc, who was sitting in another room, walked up to him and said "you G-d damn health questions, how dare you treat a patient like you just did, word your DX and what he should do, the way you did and then when the patient passes out in shock, you just up and leave the room, then nurses have to fight with you for some sedation for the patient." He started to say something and if I live to be a million, I'll never figure out why I did what I did, but I formed a fist and slugged the doctor in the face as hard as I could and left the room. Oh what a bruise I had on my right hand the next day, but it felt good.

Anyways, my hubby returned to his hospital room and we talked with the original doc again and we decided to have the surgery he suggested. All I can say is thank G-d we did, because my hubby didn't have a brain tumor.
He had a subarachnoid cyst that was leaking and could have killed him if it hadn't been drained and removed. This doctor almost fell over on the floor when he saw what he did, since prior to my husband there where only 3 documented cases in the world and my hubby made the 4th.

hubby had a long recoup after surgery, lots of personality changes for almost a year because of the location of the cyst and the damage done to that side of the brain. We had a tough year, but stuck it out and he returned to his old self.
He has a permement seizure disorder under control with meds since the surgery and no seizures since.

But that second opinion treatment was unreal and if we followed the advise my hubby would have been dead within a week, but not from a brain tumor, but from listening to the his advise over the first neurosurgeon.

Caring, concern, compassion, understanding, listening to the patient, keys to a good doctor.

Fran

littleonefb
Fran, I enjoy our posts; they are so colourful and descriptive.
Your poor hubby...thank God he didn't take the advice of the 2nd specialist...what an incompetent and insensitive excuse for a human being. I can't believe you punched him out; head of the dept of Neurosurgery at that. I am amazed he didn't sue you. Anyhow he certainly deserved a good clout. Good for you!

The Neurosurgeon who did the discectomy and laminectomy on my spine was like that. He strutted around the hospital like a banty rooster and the nurses visited their patients ahead of him and announced "The Doctor is Coming - The Doctor is Coming!!" like it was the 2nd coming of the Lord. Then they told us "Don't ask him questions...he doesn't like wasting time answering a lot of questions!" Can you believe a Dr. acting like that? We heard of a couple of cases from some guys that went to see him about back problems, and this Dr. demanded they take their caps off to show him some respect. One of them told him where to get off, and before leaving his office he swept the contents of the Dr's desk to the floor.
Anyhow he is no longer allowed to operate...they moved him to administration.....thank the Lord! After my surgery was over the nurses told me I had the worst Dr. in the area. Well it was out of my hands because I was an emerg. patient and had no choice about choosing between a good one that used micro surgery and this person that must have learned his craft as a vet or a butcher.

I hope the Laser Surgery can provide the relief that I am looking for. Wish we all could have an outcome like JoeBob. Several of the posters that had the Laser surgery don't seem to come on the forum anymore. Too bad. It would be nice to keep updated.

Mare

Fran....If you ever get to that point, and I hope you don't, I have had a RFA a couple of years ago. It was not the most comfortable of procedures, but I can't say it was as bad as a discogram for example.

I was numbed in the back area and given a relaxer, so I was awake for everything but felt like I was floating around the room. I did feel pressure, but not really pain, sorta like at the dentist when they numb your mouth. The bad news for me is that the benefits of the procedure did not last long. About a month or two later, I started feeling back pain again and then, by six months after, I could feel no good effects.

It is a much different procedure than just the regular injections we all get, but the doctor handled everything and just asked me if I felt pain, to let him know. You all know how difficult it is to see when you are on your stomach. They did have a mirror set up. but it just looked like he was injecting needles with cords on them.

I hope everything goes well with your facet injections. I've had those twice and, actually, had better success with those that other types. Good luck.

I know it has been quite awhile since I have posted. I've read the post and seeing how everyone is doing.

I leave in 2wks for Bonati's.....surgery is the the sixth of november....don't have a time yet...said I would call them around 4:30 on the fifth...for the time.....that is after I get all the blood work and such done on that day. I have gotten all the paperwork and gotten my FMLA approved and my time off granted thru my job. So I am good to go......so ..........that's about it..........gotta get me some walking shoes and work out clothes.. Talk with you later........mj

It's wonderful to know there is another option out there for me. This morning I woke up in so much pain. I am on Vicodin ES again with this flair-up and ready for an alternative route. Like get rid of this forever.
Thanks for sharing your stories. I will ask my doc about LSI. I have a herneated disc L 1-2 getting worse by the day. I also have MS.

Carrie

Hello Heavyc and Carrie,

Welcome to this thread and the family of great people who post on it.

Heavyc, thanks for the link. Unfortunately it was removed before I read it.

Carrie, sorry to read about your back pain. I'm glad you found this thread and hope as you read through the many posts you will be able to gain some insight into the experiences some have had with laser spine surgery.

Take care.

RichT

Good morning MJ,

Thanks for the update. We will be thinking about you on your upcoming surgery at Bonati. My thoughts and prayers are and will be with you. I hope you have a successful surgery and recovery.

Take care.

RichT

Hi MJ,

Wow, your time is fast approaching! I'm really excited for you and wish you all the best in your surgery and recovery. Definitely bring your sneakers because you'll sure be using them! After my first surgery I walked an hour the very next day!

How long are you planning to be there? If you have any questions about the area or need anything, please let me know. You were there holding my hand when I really needed it and I would be so happy to help you in any way I can!

God bless you MJ,
Carrianne

My appointment for surgery is now scheduled for Nov. 9 with the Dr. and Hospital that I have spoken of to Fran.

It will be Min. Invasive Surgery...Laminectomy and Fusion Insitu. And it will be under anesthesia. Estimated time for the surgery 1 hr and 30 min. Am expected to loose 4 to 7 cc's of blood at most if that.

I could have it done under a spinal but I don't want my spine messed up any more by anything other then the surgery itself.

Fran, I was thinking on what you had said in regard to your prior plans about what not to do around the house after surgery. I've arranged for someone else to do the house cleaning. I've assigned my husband to laundry....with supervision.
I am awaiting for pre-op orders and post op instructions. I'm still studying the B.R. options that you had discussed in an earlier post. All thoughts and ideas welcomed because of your experience.

Rich, I decided I couldn't wait any longer for surgery because everytime I missed a pain pill, or tried to see where things were without them, I would get to a point where I could barely walk from here to there. Not only that, but a friend saw me last weekend and said, "you can take those pain pills but they are not curing the problem. In time the problem will overcome you". Since I couldn't do laser and got no satisfactory answer to the spondy situation, I thought if I could find a good Min. Invasive Doc, that would be going a long way. So off I go.

Will keep you all posted on how things go. I have friends all around the nation praying for me. If any of you want to add to the prayers, please do so. I will need as many as I can get.

Marie B.

I got an email from the Special Forces Guy who had spinal surgery that I mentioned in a previous post.
His problem was approached from the anterior of the spinal vertebrae. He had Replacement Discs at the L4&5 and S1 levels. Post Op his recovery time took longer because he had more problems recovering from the abdominal surgical entry site then he did the spine surgical site. His last sentence was "I am glad I had it done." Am still communicating with him on the subject. This was done 3 years ago and he is doing fine with no other problems. He's young with a family of 6 children. He is about 49 years of age.
So there are people out there that have major spinal surgery through open back or front to back and they do have good results. The ones I have found simply do not spend their regained health time on Forums. I don't think I could convince them to join a Forum, not because they don't have concern for the others, it is just they do the human thing; they get on with their lives.
I have found as I mention my pain because of a spine problem, the ones who have had surgery come foreward and talk to me about their back experiences and they are very willing to go into detail and talk about their doctors who did the surgery and the hospitals they went to.
If I hadn't stumbled onto the Spine Forum that was archived on Google, I may never have joined a Forum without Rich's encouragement.

As my old 77 yr.old friend said, "Others have had successful spinal surgery. Why not have a positive attitude and think, So can I."

Marie B

Wow, I can't believe it's already been 9 weeks since my first surgery, 7 since my second. I started work part time last week and will probably return full time next week. Everyday I'm getting a little stronger.

Here's how I've improved since before surgery. I can pick things up off the floor without being in pain (as long as I do it correctly) and can stand up (from sitting or laying) easier. Before I had to grab onto something and it would take about 5 seconds before I could stand up straight because it hurt so much. My back feels a bit stiff, but like Joe said, it's nothing a good massage can't help!

I still have pain in my legs so can't sit for very long. Sometimes laying down produces the same pain. There is a possibility of needing another surgery, but I just want to give it more time, especially because of the dura leak. They injected blood into L4-L5 3 times after the surgery so it may just take longer for it to calm down. In the meantime, I'm trying to focus on how far I've come and let God do what He does!

Praying for healing for everyone here!
Carrianne

Marie,

I want to wish you the very best in your surgery and recovery. Your friend is right about believing that you can have a successful experience! A positive attitude produces positive outcomes! God is with you and so are we! We'll certainly be praying for you!

I love that your husband will be under supervision in doing the laundry! That cracks me up! My husband and I have a system down because we don't have a washer or dryer, but have a facility at our complex. He carries everything down and I separate. Then we switch it to the dryer and when it's ready, he goes down and carries it all back up. Thank God for family!

Best wishes to you, Marie! Sounds like you're in great hands!
God bless,
Carrianne