Welcome to the site Jimare.

Rich T. brought me to the site also. That was after I read and printed a zillion pages from a defunct Forum on another spine website. Rich T left his calling card and I picked it up and ran with it.

Rich is a very caring man, our cheerleader who encourages us in every indecisive moment we face all the while dealing with his own spinal problems.

Don't hesitate to share with all of the posters what particular spine problems brought you to the site. They are great people.

Marie B.

Marie.....you're much too kind. And Stuart Little (the mouse from the film of the same name) thanks you, too. I actually don't live in Texas right now, been living in the midwest for the past 21 years, but we are planning to move back soon to be with our families. In fact, we live right next door to you in Indiana.

I was a medic on a med evac helicopter in Vietnam and got shot by a sniper. As your friend can tell you, those choppers are dangerous places to be in a war. I'm sorry to hear about his disc problems and you can bet if he was special forces, they don't talk about pain.

I'm older now and the old wound took two major surgeries to clean up the mess and get the bullet. And the bullet did cause my spinal alignment to be changed and now I'm suffering the consequences.

Marie B
I think I posted to the wrong place. I started my spine story under the "New Topic" and thought it would be here on this page, but I don't know where it went. Guess it will take a while before I get familiar with this forum. Anyhow if I can't find it I will start over again.
Mare

I believe I have talked to some of you on the "other" forum so I hope my history doesn't become too tedious for you.

Back in 2001 I was in the habit of walking everyday about 3 miles or so and started experiencing pain in the sciatica...then one morning woke up in agony which cont. day and night for 4 days. Couldn't sleep, lay, stand, sit...I just kept moving and moaning. Went to the chiro and as soon as he touched my back I flew off his bench and scared the bjeebers out of him so he told me I should go to emergency. I called my Dr. and since by now I was losing the feeling in my calf and foot she agreed that I should go. Once they did an xray on me they said my disc was herniated and they called a Neurosurgeon who said to admit me and get me a MRI asap. They gave me Percocette which had me vomiting all day and bawling and moaning and shaking...what a time. Within 3 days I found myself in the operating room and would have been glad to have them cut my leg off the pain in my thigh and calf was so bad. I didn't know it then, but the Neurosurgeon who did the surgery was the worst one in town and he did a terrible job and treated me terribly. I had a 10" cut and was given no aids for walking, no PT, no special toilet seat, absolutely nothing. If my husband wasn't there to hold me up or support me when I had to use the bathroom I don't know how I would have survived. I was told by the nurses NOT to ask questions (he didn't like that) and on day 3 he told me he was discharging me and I asked him what I should be doing and he said "If it hurts, don't do it". I rec'd no prescription for pain although I was still in agony. He just told me to make an app't to see him in 6 weeks, and to call my GP if I wanted pain meds. Anyhow my recovery was long and tortuous. I later found out that he had done a discectomy and a laminectomy - removing 3 vertebrae. I believe someone referred to this as the "roof". Anyhow after 6 months I had another MRI and found that the same disc had reherniated.
I made up my mind there and then that I would NEVER let him touch me again. He was totally incompetent and rude.
After waiting six months for my app't with another Neuro and he strongly warned me against getting further surgery. Six months later saw yet another Neuro and she told me I had a serious herniated disc but she refused to operate where another Dr. had operated. All this time I was suffering extreme pain...going through the various pain meds, Celebrex, Mobicox, etc. Finally my GP sent me to Toronto to an Orthopaedic Surgeon and he felt that my hip was the cause of my pain and did a hip replacement. No change. He did another MRI and suggested I might need further surgery for herniated disc. Not wanting to go under the knife again I stuck it out for two more years, by now unable to walk any further than the end of my driveway, or stand more than 5 minutes and finally in 2006 had another open back surgery which was another dismal failure. I saw this Dr. again last Dec. and had another MRI and he advised me there was nothing further they could do for me. He put me on Torodol and Lyrica and between the two of these meds I am managing to live a fairly tolerable life.
This is a condensed version of my story. It seems a lot of us are in the same boat.
This post is getting quite lengthy so I will shut up for now.
I have read all 18 pages of the posts on here and followed your stories with much interest.
Mare

Mare,

I'm so sorry for everything you've gone through. It disheartens me to know people are going through this and I really hope you find the answers you need in order to heal. Stay strong!

Welcome to Rich's wonderful thread!
God bless,
Carrianne

Marie,

I'll do my explain all this but let me know if I leave anything out. I'm not 100% sure and the folks at Bonati could explain it a lot better, but I don't think their instruments are designed to work on both sides of a disc at one time. It's all done through a small tube. My incisions are only about an inch and a half (if that).

My problems are at L4/L5 and L5/S1. Focusing on one at a time, L5/S1 was the cause of the central back pain. In reviewing my MRIs he saw that the left side looked a little worse so that is what side he worked on. He was right on. He said the material from the disc that leaked out attached itself to my nerve and that my nerve wasn't even in the correct place. Once he got the material off my nerve snapped back into place.

Now, on L4/L5 I had pain in both legs and my MRIs showed a central herniation so it was a little harder to detect which side to operate on, but decided on the right side which he thought needed a little more attention than the left.

I do still have pains, but my back is so much better than it was before. My legs still give me some problems, but I'm going to give it time. From what I've heard nerves can only heal a quarter of an inch/month. I just don't want to jump into another yet.

Guess I got off on a tangent there, but I'm pretty sure the instruments are not designed to work on both sides of a disc at one time because the tube is so small.

As far as insurance goes, as long as you have out-of-network benefits, all you'll be charged is your remaining deductible and out-of-network out-of-pocket maximum. Even though I had 2 surgeries, I wasn't charged any extra for the second. Just one flat fee which I was quoted before my first surgery. No surprises.

Best of luck to you and God bless you in your healing! Please drill my brain if you have any questions. I'm happy to offer my experiences with you all!

Carrianne

Carrianne
My sister had a laminotomy/foraminotomy done at LSI in Jan and while my husband and I had the opportunity we attended one of their seminars. I gave them my MRI while I was there and Dr. Perry said I was a candidate for the same type of surgery as my sister. Judging by how well she got along, I am excited to have the surgery, but after reading what you went through, I must admit I am nervous about committing myself. Just thinking of your dizziness makes me feel light-headed. I know I will have to weigh the pros and cons like everyone else has been doing..but I think right now the pros are winning. I have been fighting with our Health Insurance here in Ontario, Canada, and my GP has been a great support, but just this week I rec'd a letter denying my claim for pre-approval for out-of-country coverage. Right now I am praying for a miracle.
Mare

Thankyou Carrianne for your response. It did help my understanding in regard to the endoscopic surgery you had.

Did Bonati put you on any meds post op? What about physical therapy?
Can you do them at home or do you have to go to a PT unit?

If you decide to go back for further surgery at Bonati, I am assuming you will have to start paying all over again. Or do they have a plan where your future surgeries, if you have them will still be covered.?

Marie B

Mare,

Please don't let my experience make you nervous about having surgery. A dura leak is a possibility, but it's a possibility with traditional open back surgery as well. In fact, 2 of my friends are hospital nurses and they said they see that ALL the time with back surgeries in hospitals. From what I've heard it seems to be less common in laser surgery. Now that's my opinion (have to add that) but I don't think you have anything to worry about!!

Sorry to hear about the problems you're having with your insurance company. I will pray for all good outcomes for you!! And I'm with you, the pros outweigh the cons!

When is your surgery scheduled?

Take care and God bless!!!
Carrianne

Hi Marie!

I actually got my medication before my surgeries but haven't taken them in probably a month. Honestly, I was taking the darvocet more for my headache than my back because it has tylenol in it. I am not doing physical therapy at all because they said not to even think about it for at least 3 months. Because of the dura leak my spine is too fragile right now. They said walk walk walk so I'm doing an hour everyday. I break it up into 2 or 3 intervals.

If I have to go back for more the only way I'd have to pay anything else is if I wait until 2008 because my deductible and out-of-pocket maximum reset at the beginning of each year.

Hope that helps! Have a great day!!
God bless,
Carrianne

Prior to surgery, I had severe sciatica in the left buttocks after walking for as little as a minute or less. I also had pain on the outside of the calf above the ankle. After walking for a short period, the pain would go down the back of my leg. And I had some left foot drop and numbness.

My MRI's showed problems at both L4/L5 and L5/S1, with L4/L5 looking the worst. I won't go into all the details.

My first surgery at Tampa Laser Spine Institute was done on 8/23/07. They did a Left L4/5 Laminotomy / Foraminotomy / Decompression of the nerve root, Discectomy and right L4/5, bilateral L5/S1 destruction via thermal ablation of the facet joint nerve.

Recuperation from this surgery was almost nothing. I did show some improvement, but not at all what I had hoped for. I was able to walk 7-10 minutes without severe sciatica pain, which was an improvement, but not the way I wanted to live the rest of my life. Actually, I wonder if my improvement wasn't mostly from the steroid injection they gave me during surgery. They told me in advance that I would likely need a second surgery on L5/S1, so I was not completely surprised.


On 8/29 I left a message on LSI's Post-Op phone number that I was still in pain and wanted to schedule an appointment. On 9/4 a person called me back, took some information and said someone would call me back within 72 hours. On 9/7 and 9/10 I called back and left messages. On 9/11 a person called me back and we arranged for me to get a post surgery MRI and then meet with the surgeon. If you look at the dates, you can see why I was very frustrated with LSI's lack of responsiveness to my post surgery pain!

The new MRI showed a post surgical change to the lamina region of L4/5 and recurrence/residual left paracentral focal disc herniation which is slightly smaller in size. Of course, L5/S1 was not operated on, so it was same and that is where I suspected my pain was coming from.

An appointment was made with the surgeon for 9/24 with a tentative second surgery on 9/25. Unfortunately, the surgeon had a family emergency, so those dates got delayed about a week and I had a second surgery on 10/1. They did a discogram of left L3/4 and Left L4/5 to locate the problematic disc. Then they did a Left L4/5 revision (I am not sure exactly what they did here) and a Left L5/S1 Laminotomy / Foraminotomy / Decompression of the nerve root.

Right now, I am two days out from surgery and the good news is that my sciatic pain has disappeared completely. I have been on several long walks with no sciatic pain whatsoever! They must have done a lot more work on my back this time, because I am very sore and stiff at the region where they operated. I guess that is to be expected and it will get better as it heals. The only pain med that I have been taking is Tylenol. I have a post-op appointment this afternoon.

The bad news is that my insurance reimbursement from BCBS of Florida is a small fraction of what I anticipated. I won't quote the numbers yet, because LSI says they will appeal with BCBS.

The good news: I can walk again!
The bad news: I am not looking forward to the insurance company battle.

Guy

Guy I was surprised to hear that LSI left that L5,S1 herniated disc untouched in your first surgery.
From everything I've read on the site, it was LSI, who tries to deal with all of the problems during one operation. Bonati was the one who took them one at a time. In fact, during one web site reading at LSI, it sounded as though they had more then one surgeon present operating simultaneously. I know that sounds ridiculous but I got the idea when they claimed they required only a 5 day stay in Florida for a patient. I don't know if that information is still on the site.

It might be my imagination, but I've noticed both laser sites have done some eliminating of information that was on the site when I first stumbled on them.
The Bonati Forum once could still be accessed although closed, but now you can't get no illuminating information from it.

I do hope all continues to be for the better with you. And I hope the battles with BCBS turn more favorable to you.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

Marie B.

Carrianne
I still plan to have the surgery, but expect it will be in 2008...maybe in January. One problem is that my husband has squamous cell carcinoma on the nose and that has to be looked after before we can head for Florida. He has an app't for a consult Nov. 2 and then we should know how long before he can get it attended to. In Canada the wait times are ridiculous. When I was at LSI in Jan. they filled out a form putting me in the system with a set rate for $27,500. In Jan 07 that was $32,000...at this present time it is close to PAR...yipee! Hope they don't change the rate. Reading Guy's post is a little disheartening, especially if the operation doesn't accomplish it's purpose and a 2nd one is required. I would be doomed...could never pay for a 2nd surgery. My Health Insurance has just denied my application for out-of-province coverage. They consulted on so called "expert" who has never done Laser Surgery and on the strength of their expert's opinion, and due to the fact that I am not in danger of imminent death, or suffering tissue damage due to my condition, then I am not eligible for coverage. I am still appealing their decision but don't know one Canadian who had success obtaining coverage yet.
I am glad that you are getting along better after what you went through. With the cost of the surgery, and the experience you went through, would you still say that it is a worthwhile surgery. I realize what you're saying that what happened with your dura being nicked is not all that common, but aside from that would you recommend this surgery to others?
Mare

Hi Rich and Carol, In answer to your questions, I had lumbar surgery at LSi in Jan and am doing well.( About 75% or better) and still improving. walking is the key and I walk about a mile every day, ( a year ago I was all hunched over leaning on a grocery cart whenever I tried to go shopping. and couldn't walk a block) I was booked for a fusion but saw LSI on line and chose that path. And I'm glad iidid. y
Yes, it was VERY expensive, but to be able to carry on a normal life with almost no discomfort having the surgery, ( a 1 1/2 inch cut, a local anesthetic in the arm and walking 2 hours later as opposed to a long cut, a piece of metal grafted to my bone which might or might not take, several weeks of painful recuperation...I could go on, but I'll leave it at that.
Any specific questions I'd be glad to anser.
I am still having some spinal claudication from L-4 and L-5 (this is like a charlie horse in the muscles of the buttocks and inner calves) but LSI is looking at a new MRI and has said if it is caused by anything they overlooked they will do a deeper surgery in theat area, free of charge.

Mare,
I'm sorry to hear about the problems your husband is facing and will pray for him as well.

I certainly would recommend this type of surgery to others. What I went through was an unfortunate complication, but isn't really all that uncommon with any type of back surgery (laser or not). I was well taken care of there. They checked on me everyday, even on their days off. The care is excellent.

As far as cost is involved, since my insurance plan has out of network coverage and we had already met our deductible, all we had to pay for everything was $1500. All the claims have been processed and BCBS has paid on every one. What they haven't paid, Bonati has written off. Got that in writing of course!

Yes I still have some kinks, but am definitely better off than I was before my surgeries.

Best wishes to you and your husband. Take care and God bless,
Carrianne

Good Morning Everyone,

Received good news from Lee with the Admin. They have successfully extended the time out to 2 hours. I'd say that for the vast majority of posts that should be adequate time.

Lee and his staff have been outstanding in addressing our posting "difficulty" in a timely matter. THREE CHEARS to Lee and ALL!!!!

Now if you are writing a really long extended post don't forget to set your timer.

I have so much catching up to do. Will try to respond to several of your posts later today.

Wishing you a pleasant day!

RichT

Marie B.
Bofore my first surgery, I asked LSI about doing both levels and they told me that they would not do two adjacent discs at the same time. They gave me a reason of swelling, which I didn't buy, but what are you gonna do? They said they would do a lumbar and a cervical at the same time (two different areas). They wanted to wait 4 days between surgeries at adjacent levels. Maybe it's negotiable ahead of time, particularly if you are flying in.

On the second surgery, they did do two levels, so go figure! I am much more sore this time. I think there is some bruising and swelling and there has been some blood seepage for 2-3 days. We have'nt got a look at it yet, though. Aside from that minor annoyance, everything is great so far. I have been walking, standing around, going updown steps, shopping, etc., just like a normal person. GREAT!
Guy

Hello Guy,

AHHHhhh SUPER that after your second surgery you are up and "running" like a normal person . Thanks for the update and sharing.

"Like a normal person" - Yes, it would be ever so nice to feel like a normal person. Today was a good day, so I felt close to that.

Guy, I hope your recovery continues to go well. Look forward to your future updates. Are the surgeons at LSI still contemplating the need for additonal surgeries for you?

Have a GREAT Day!

RichT

Hello Carrianne,

First and foremost, glad to read that each day is getting better for you since your surgery. You had some difficult days after your first surgery. Carrianne, you are one "tough" young lady. And your faith is a big factor in that I know.

Carrianne, thanks for your thoughts and prayers. On a bad day I know your support is there. And on a good day I know your prayers are being answered. I can feel it!!! Thanks!!!

RichT

Hello Share,

Great to have you become a member of this spiney family. I really appreciate your sharing of your experiences at LSI. That is exactly the input so many of us are looking for.

Thanks for responding to our questions.

You have experienced quite an improvement since your surgery in January. It is interesting how WALKING seems to be such an important part of a successful recovery.

Likewise for me, it is the thought of the screws and rods that keeps me away from "traditional" surgery. Hopefully the edidural injections will keep working for me for some time to come.

"LSI is looking at a new MRI and has said if it is caused by anything they overlooked they will do a deeper surgery in theat area, free of charge." And when have you heard of a "traditional" spine surgeon giving you a free 2nd surgery if they may have overlooked something during the first surgery. I certainly have not heard of that happening. Okay, LSI, isn't cheap, but in comparison to "traditional" surgery costs, laser surgery is a real bargain.

Now tell me why a number of insurance companies still don't accept laser spine surgery as a "today" technique. Good grief, it certtainly isn't "experimental" after all these years.

Sorry to have rambled on.

Have a GREAT Day!

RichT