Hello Marie,

Thank you for your very kind words.

I'm going CRAZY not having my computer up and running. The power supply comes in tomorrow, and hopefully on Saturday my son (with better eyes than mine) will put it in. THEN we have to find out if that was the problem OR if the MB is bad. Time will tell how things go.

Take care.

RichT

Marie, glad to help. just let me know if you want any further info.

Rich, didn't mean for my posts to be more of a book, but thought the info would be good for others to read.
On the other place, you know who warned that second opinions can be great but that they usually sound better or how ever they worded it.

I wanted people to be aware that it isn't always the case and many times can be worse than the original opinions. Also wanted people to know how easy it is to get many various opinions and that not all of them are correct no matter where you go or how prestigious the title the doc has or how prestigious the hosp affiliations are etc.

It was something to see what a normal spine looks like for a female my age. Kind of depressing too as it looked so nice, especially when you compared it to mine. The fact that I could see actual pics of normal vs mine vs what other docs said was wrong, gave me even more confidence in my doc to do the surgery and getting any referrals from him.

The world of orthopedic docs, spinal docs is a really scary place out there and so many bad docs and ones that just don't care.

Marie, aren't those figures incredible? It does scare me to think that you could have all kinds of problems after surgery and not have access to your doc because he's in some foreign country.
That concerned me as well, about going to Bonati or LSI. Living a couple of thousand miles away from their facilities and having problems after the fact just didn't feel good to me, Especially when I have no one to stay with for an extended stay.
The cost was also just far more than we could handle financially.

Carrianne, I am praying for you and that you heal well without any further complications. If you need another surgery to fix this problem, then girl, you go for it, so you can get your life back again.
Thank you Mom for me for keeping us all informed on your progress and what is going on.

Rich, please, please, please, get thee another computer ASAP.

Fran

Hello Fran,

I'm just frustrated that I can't take the time to read the very valuable information you shared with us all.

Sorry, another computer for me is out. Not enough room in my small study. My current one takes up most of one wall as it is.

My wife has mentioned about getting a computer for herself, so perhaps that will help.

Oh boy, my time at the library is running out. They already kicked me off of one computer.

RichT

So Fran, Do you have an inside track with your orthopod? Will he help others like he did for Rich? You would think the area of Ohio where the Football Hall of Fame is located would have a Sports Spine Center, right? Maybe your doc would know. I'd accept any recommendations he would make.

I just don't want any fusion surgery. So far I have one chiro and one Pain Management Dr. who say I don't have any significant slippage obsesrvable on X-Ray and one Ortho who says I do without giving me any degree of slippage. It's a scary world out there. I get another opinion Sept. 27.

Rich, see what I mean? All the sweet talk in the world and two weeks away was the best I could get.

I hope Carrianne doesn't have to go through another surgery but if Bonati says it must be done then I'll send the angels to surround her during the time she is on the OR table.

Take care everyone. Why haven't we heard from Carol? Is she still having trouble posting?

Marie B

Hi Marie,
I can ask my doc if he can give me a name of someone near you or as close as possible to you in Ohio, Send me and e-mail with some cities or towns around you.

I won't be able to do it till next week as he is out of the office for the rest of the week for the Jewish Holidays.

No doupt I will be doing it in person as it looks like the muscle I tore is not healing. My PT said tonight that the it is progressing to slowly and we will do knew measurments next week and compare them to the ones done on my eval and no doupt will have to go back to see him about it.

Looks like another visit to the OR is coming up for me. and for some reason my left leg is swelling quite a bit. No idea why but PT confirms it is swelling and need to have that checked with my Primary care.

If it isn't one thing, it's another.

Fran

O.K. Fran, if I did this right, an email with info has been sent to you.

Marie B.

We have not heard from LSG, lately.
Is he still thinking of going to Bonati?

And still no word from Carol. I wonder if she is O.K. or if the problem if logging on still continues. I wonder if she is still leaning toward lasesr surgery

And we have no new candidates who have gone in for laser surgery other then Carriane and Joebob.

I need more feedback while I am waiting to go to my next appointment. This decision making is so difficult when you don't know which doctor to trust.
Marie B.

Hi everybody. It is great to see people with same problems discussing problems, solutions, and praying for each other. I have been diagnosed with isthimic spondylolisthesis by the no. 1 surgeon of Dallas and he recommends a spinal fusion due to my significant pinched nerve symptoms (stenosis). I have been researching LSI (laser spine institute) and Bonati. However, due to lack of guidance, I am not sure if I am a candidate for a laser surgery. Please advise. Thanks,

Shilpa

Dear Carrianne:

I have read a little bit about your problem and I am so glad to see you come back. I hope all your pain and problems go away for ever. I am not sure what exactly was your problem and what procedure you went for at Bonati. I would love to know more if it is not a problem to you, since I am considering laminatomy and foraminatomy. This is for fixing my pinched nerve condition due to isthimic spondylolisthesis after being advised to get a spinal fusion done.

I do not have any family to support me and I have student loans to pay off. At this time any sort of information on the financial requirements for such a procedure at Bonati will be a great help.

I am sorry for bothering you. I wish I didn't have to. Thank you

Take Care
Shilpa

Hi Shipla, My heart goes out to you in regard to the spinal problem that you have.

I don't believe any of the regular posters on this site could tell you if you are a candidate for laser surgery. If you have not done so, I would go to the websites of Bonati and LSI just to familiarize myself with what these doctors do with laser. Then you could contact them for information and help.
I would also suggest that you go to more then one Doctor for a review of your problem.

Most people who have posted on this Forum have found the two laser centers that you mentioned expensive with up front costs because neither accept insurances. The claim they will assist you with your insurance company but they require a large up front down payment. But all of these types of details
are better learned directly from this two centers.

Good Luck with your search. That is what we all are doing; searching the best option for each of our spine problems.
I can tell you that by posting on this site, you will get emotional support in your endeavor of looking for a doctor and all the answers that you need.

Marie B.

I have seen a few posts about getting eye floaters and/or torn retna with/after eye surgery. Could any of you provide more information on this subject. Also, how can lifting something cause an eye problem? Is there amything you can do to minimize the risk? It does not seem like floaters or retnas would be attached to spine surgery???
Thanks,
Guy

Three weeks post surgery, I can walk only 7-10 minutes until butt sciatica causes me to grab my knees and and wait for the nerves to settle down. Then I can walk a short distance farther before repeating the dance. This has been about the same for three weeks.

As stated in an earlier post, before surgery I had difficulty walking from one side of the house to the other. Surgery did improve things. LSI did tell me that I may have to have a second surgery and therefore my continuing sciatica problem is not unexpected.

So, today I made an appointment for a new MRI and a consult with the surgeon on 9/24. Depending on what he says, I will probably have the second surgery on 9/25.

LSI took days to return my calls regarding my problem, and then it took days for a follow up person to check back with me - this is frustrating. Also, as of today, I have not seen any insurance claims from LSI on BCBS' website. I have made 3 calls to LSI's finance/insurance dept in the last two days, but no return calls. Can you tell I am getting a little frustrated!

Guy,

I just heard about this the other day. Apparently, the position you have to be in for surgery (face-down) for an extended time does cause detached retinas and eye floaters. I know. Seemed strange to be too. But the good new is that laser surgery does not take as long as, say, a spinal fusion, so the risk of eye problems goes down.

To Marie:

I have been busy researching my insurance options for laser surgery and should know something within a week or so. I may not get full coverage but it could be enough to consider it. Thanks for checking on me.

To Carrianne:

I hope everything is better and you don't need another surgery to stop any leaking. Here's wishing you a quick and speedy recovery. Your mom did a great job of keeping us informed about your progress, so you are truly blessed.

I'm the one that posted about that problem on this forum and have had it happen to me.
This is how is was explained to me by my spinal doctor and my ophthalmologist.

The reason that this can occur is because of the position that you are put in for the spinal surgery. You are positioned on, what look like very small "horses" that are used for construction. That puts your head way down below your heart level and puts pressure and strain, into your head and the eyes.
Thes things are used to arch your spine up toward the ceiling to make it easier and safer for the doctor to do surgery.

The same type of set up is used for spinal injections.

The pressure builds up in your eyes while you are in this position. It can be a cumulative affect as well as just a one time affect during surgery that can cause the problem.
So if you've had several spinal injections over a period of several months and then spinal surgery, you have a compound build up of pressure and strain from each time you are in this position.
Though it could also happen from just one time in that position and it doesn't have to be a very long time either.

From what I understand with LSI and Bonati, you are in that position quite a few times prior to surgery as well as during surgery, so that could be a compound affect.

From what I was told, it can happen roughly 50% of the time.

Also included in the factor of this happening is age, especially if you are over 50 and I am 56, as floaters beginning to occur usually starts to happen after the age of 50.

The viscous fluid in the eye begins to thin and releases the material that is called floaters.
I had never seen one in my eyes prior to surgery, but had 3 epidurals done between end of Feb. and Beginning of May, all done under sedation and florscope and then had surgery mid June.
The strain and pressure caused that viscous fluid to speed up in it's natural process and release the floaters and I had quite a few of them and still do.

Retinas can tear and/or detach for many reasons, but the most common is the strain we can put on them from lifting heavy objects incorrectly. Stoop and bend the knees when you go to pick up something on the floor, never lifting anything over 50 pounds alone, be careful when bending over that you don't leave your head that way for a long time.

Some people are more susceptible to developing floaters than others. Someone like my husband who has terrible vision, can barely see his hand in front of his face without his glasses are more susceptible to retinal tears/detachments and floaters. He has had a retinal tear in both eyes that have been repaired.

As for preventing this from happening with spinal surgery, you can't. What is important is to be aware of the possibility, no what to watch for and if those floaters start coming in your eyes, call and go see your eye doctor right away. They will dilate your eyes immediately so they can see if there is a problem with the retinas. If you start to see flashes of light, that's an emergency ASAP call to the eye doc and seen ASAP. That indicates a detachment of the retina and if not immediately reattached you will lose the vision in your eye.

If those floaters start to occur, you will be restricted in lifting things, no more than 5 pounds to start, no bending over at all for a period of 6 weeks at least and be checked every couple of weeks and if things stay stable you will progress with how much weight you can lift, but you will always be told to avoid bending over whenever possible, which is something we shouldn't do anyways, especially with our backs.

By the way, once those floaters start, you have them for good. Some days they are worse than others but you get used to them and don't notice them. The last time I was at the eye doc was in July and when he asked me how the floaters where, I told him I didn't see them now. he smiled and after my eye exam told me that he saw lots of them, but I've gotten used to them and just don't notice them. I know don't have to go back to be seen for 6 months.

Ironically, my eye docs wife is also an eye doc, specialty is children. She had spinal surgery with my spine surgeon, 2 weeks after I did for the same thing. She's 2 years younger than me and she developed the floaters as well.

It's something to be aware of, take care of if it happens and it usually does as we age, can't prevent it. Is it enough to not have any kind of spinal surgery or epidural injections. In my opinion no way. I'm just glad I knew about the possibility before hand, so when they occurred I didn't panic, just did what I was told to do. I called the eye doc and he had me come in within 2 hours to check the eyes and been monitoring me since.

Fran

Hello Shilpa,

Welcome to this thread and the great people who post here. You are amoung friends.

Just to clarify - LSI and Bonati do accept some medical insurance company policies. It really all depends on whether they are in a "network".

If you have MRIs, you can send your MRI CD to LSI and Bonati Institute, but before doing so, do give them a call. From the MRIs they will be able to tell you if you are a condidate or not. There is no cost for this service.

I wish you the very best as you begin to research your options. Don't hesitate for a second in asking any of us questions. We are here to help each other.

Take care.

RichT

I knew I heard that somewhere. Thanks for letting us all know again about the eye problems. It just occurred to me when I was reading the information that I had been on one of thse setups for spinal injections several times and it was the most uncomfortable position ever. Luckily, my injections didn't take as long as surgery, so I have not had any bad effects.

Hope you are doing well and it's nice to hear from you again.

I had to reply when I read about being placed on horses for either injections or surgery.

I had 5 injections at the C.C. Pain Center and was always put on what I know to be a normal operating room table. I was not "jack-knifed".

As for horses for surgery, that I don't know about. If you are looking into the Florida laser centers, I would find out from Bonati or LSI about the position you are put in for surgery just to make yourself forewarned about the eye floaters or detached retinas. You can be sure that too will be put on my list of questions for the next surgeon I speak to.

I can't remember the length of time Fran was in surgery, but she would know from her experience what happened to her.

I don't remember Joebob discussing his position in surgery either, only that he could watch a monitor while the surgery was being done.

We need Joebob to answer that. Rich, what's the chance you could get him to answer this question?
Marie B.

Hi Shilpa,

Welcome to the forum! I must admit I'm extremely behind on my reading, but am slowly getting back into it. I have DDD, disc bulges, herniations, and a tear at L4/5 & L5/S1. I had a partial facetectomy, discectomy, laminotomy, and foramenotomy on each disc.

Here's what I know about both places (based on my experience):

LSI will review your MRIs for free. They quoted me $30K upfront deposit or $15K and once they received $20K back from the insurance company they'd start to reimburse me. They do have informational seminars once or twice a month. I learned a whole lot from it, but financially I just couldn't do it.

Bonati will also review your MRIs and insurance information for free. The biggest difference between the two is that Bonati will accept out of network benefits if you have them on your insurance plan. Deductible plus out-of-network out-of-pocket max is what you'll be responsible for. Another wonderful thing is that they don't balance bill you for what the insurance company doesn't pay. My insurance has already started paying on all the claims so I know how much they are and aren't paying. Bonati takes a loss but they willingly do so to make this possible.

For me, my deductible is $4500 and my out of network out of pocket max is $1500. Since I had already met my deductible, all I paid is $1500. I opened up a carecredit(.com) account. Zero interest if you pay if off within a certain amount of time. If you need longer, the interest isn't that unreasonable. It's helped my husband and I a whole lot.

Sorry for the novel, but hope it helps you. PLEASE don't hesitate to ask if you have any more questions. Best wishes to you and God bless!!
Carrianne

Hi everyone!

Just wanted to let you all know I saw Dr. Bonati yesterday and he cleared me to go HOME! He said I looked much better than I did Monday and didn't feel a seucher (sp?) was necessary since my headache was gone. Now I'm just praying hard that it doesn't come back. I'm waiting until tomorrow to go home just to be safe. I'm really excited, especially because Sunday is my one year anniversary!

I still have some pains in my back and legs but am praying so hard that it will just go away as my nerves heal. My back pain is more stiffness than anything, probably from laying down for so long and not exercising. My legs could hurt from having 3 blood patches. They said it would put extra pressure on my hip area until the patch took and the rest of the blood disipated.

For some people, this surgery has cured everything pretty much right away. The first surgery was like that for me. Since I had a dura leak the second surgery, I think this one will just take more time so I'm praying for patience!

Thank you all for your unending support and prayers. I appreciate you all more than I can express in words! I pray for everyone here to be lead to the treatment that is right for you!

God bless,
Carrianne

Dear Carrianne:

Thank you for such a elaborate answer. That tells me a lot and gives me a lot of confidence since I do have out of network benefits. I really hope your stiffness and rest of the problems disappear. One thing I definitely learned from these problems is how to be your own gaurdian, research your problems, and ask your own questions.

If I am a candidate for Laser, then Bonati it is.

Thank You and Bless You

Shilpa