Hello Rich, Carrianne, Guy and everyone,

My sincere apologies for not reporting on my visit with Dr. Tolli last week. He agreed with my surgeon that I do need the fusion surgery but questioned the two level because of another disc that looks just as bad. He wants me to have his guy there in ST. Pete to do another discogram and MRI. Discograms can be subjective. When the dye entered the disc in question it could have leaked out thus causing no pressure for a true finding. He stated my discs are too far gone for Laser not that I could have anyway because of insurance. I was very impressed with him. Very confident, knowledgeable and business-like yet seemed concerned for my well being. This may not be fair to say but I did get the impression that he was selling himself. I would probably have him do the surgery but for the distance plus I believe in my Doctor here in Jax.

I now realize after three plus months of severe pain, meds, (to no avail) and testing that I must go forward with the final option. This past week I've been in a funk, a little afraid of what I'm facing. As difficult as this is for me, it's just as tough for our loved ones. They may as well be in the same condition. I have my girlfriend Lori to thank and in the future when I'm unable she will post here for me with updates. A positive attitude and believing is the key along with a support group like Lori and all of you.

I have an appointment this afternoon to see my surgeon in hopes of making arrangements for surgery and ask about the third disc. I promise to do better and not be a stranger to perhaps help someone along the way like you all did for me. I'm grateful.

Take Care, Donald

Yesterday, I walked around our neighborhood block - it got a little painful at the end, but overall it wasn't too bad. Prior to surgery, going from one side of the house to the other side was challenging. I am now standing with normal posture instead of being hunched over. I still get sciatica pain in the left buttox, but not as soon or as crippling as before, and I still have pain on the side of the calf above the ankle. I have been feeling "slightly" better every day. I have also been making short shopping trips, whereas before surgery I had pretty much given that up.

The jury is still out as to if I will need another surgery at L5-S1 (the first was at L4-5). I was told on the front-end that it might be necessary. Since I live nearby LSI, I am giving things a chance to heal and not hurrying into the second surgery.

Guy

Donald....I'm not sure whether to congratulate you for getting a plan together or commiserate with you over what you're facing. You do sound resigned to the fusion, so I wish you luck in that. Sorry that laser was just not in the cards for you.

I don't envy you the discogram as I explained my experience with one early in this thread. But, chin up, we are all behind you and hope that the surgery can give you some relief. You're right about your loved ones. They are just as involved and just as sad with your situation. Look to them for support in your journey.

Good luck and let us know how everything goes or just pop on here to get a pep talk if you want.

LSG (Rick)

Dear Barb. I can really feel for you. It is hard enough to work through all of these specialists with varying degrees of education and experience, but to understand the jargon, various decisions is a tough hoe for anyone to struggle through.
The people on this Forum will be a help mentally and emotionallyto you.
Try to slowly work your way through all of your confusion with research and ask questions and ask questions and ask questions. Don't ever allow yourself to feel intimidated when asking even the most elementary questions. Remember. This is your back.
DMB

Rick, I believe I read on another thread on this forum you spoke about the medicines you had been taking. Tje subject was spending a lot of sleep time on a recliner because of meds. I have days like that. My hubby will find me on my recliner with my "blankie" sound asleep. I keep trying to tell him that it is not just because I'm getting old, but that it is a "drugged" sleep.

Would you share how you are handling your meds now. I'm taking Advil 3Tab. and is what really makes me sleepy. And sometimes I add 1 Ultracet tablet when I know I have to leave the house or clean the house.
I really know it isn't age that caused my back to degenerate. It was this constant housecleaning.


To all others on this Forum, I ask your forgiveness if it looks like I am hogging all of the message spaces. It's just that I have not had somebody to worry, cry, chuckle or talk with about this predicament I found myself at the time of life that is supposed to be called my "Golden Years".

Donette

Hi Everyone,

I met Carrianne and her Mom on the day after my second surgery and again on August 28th before her second surgery. She told me about this site so here I am.

I am a patient at Bonati Institute and have had 2 proceedures done this summer. My first surgery was the microdermibrasion of the facet joints on June 18th and the 2nd suregery was a laminectomy, partial facectomy, partial forenotimy and a discectomy in July 17th. I just had my follow up appointment on Aug 28th with Dr Moffat and I am done for now he says I am a work in progress. I have had cronic back pain for 8 years. I had tried epidural injections, accupunture, rhizotomies only to be frustrated and still in pain. I could not stand or walk for more that 2 minutes at a time with excruciating pain in my lower back, buttocks and upper legs with both legs going numb. I am now 90% pain free and no numbness anymore. Dr Moffatt told me my surgical pain should be totaly gone in 6 weeks. I can't express enough how wonderful the staff and doctors at the Bonati Institute are, they are true to their word everything they told me they could do for me came true.

I hope you are feeling better Carrianne and thanks again for telling me about this site.

Roz

Hi Roz:
Welcome and thanks for sharing . . .
I tried to post earlier today and had many problems getting on the website:
So here goes . . .
Good Morning Everyone! Saturday, Labor Day Weekend!

O.k. it was all my little mind could do to keep the names of the posters straight in my mind on spinehealth, let alone over here! I ran into trouble using my original code name: "Carol Lumbar" as I thought it would be important to keep the same identity here, but ehealth's rules are: you don't use real names. I chuckled to myself, as my code name was created as a pun about the 30's screen siren and wife of Clark Gable . . . "Carol Lombard!" I myself, thought it was quite funny, but of course I was drinking medicinal merlot at the time! I thought everyone would "get it" since my perception was that back problems are generally the domain and part of the "circle of life" of getting old! (How wrong was I?)

But anyway . . . I think I need a legend for who's the NEW who? I LOL when Dragonfly finally flew over to ehealth I like your new color! . . . I do believe most of the original gang is here . . . thanks again Rich T for creating a safe haven . . . I feel the same "good vibes" that were on the original thread followed us here!

With that said, welcome everyone, and pls. excuse this old mind, if I have confused names . . .

Rich T's request for further explanation of how I was feeling when I first started posting was written in response to my personal journey, reflection, denial and confusion of the deterioration that was going on in my back. I've always thought I'd been one of those, eat (kind of) right, exercise (3 mile a day jogger), hard working, regular people who took measures to live a long, healthy life. After going to three doctor's who all said something different, I was resentful, that there shouldn't be more available to me than the response, back pain = fusion! I didn't feel enough less invasive measures were available to me other than masking the pain with shots, which I'm also not fond of, since "pain" is a body's way of indicating that something is wrong!" I don't need a panacea, I need a successful solution, and my stubborn German mind, cannot wrap around anything less! But fortunately or unfortunately from the sounds of many . . . I'm not alone! This is MY back and by golly, if they can put a man on the moon 30 yrs. ago, why is this sooooo hard!?? After all, they are doctors, right? Sound familiar DMB?

Now, while Iam stubborn, I'm also thoroughly grateful and thankful that this is ALL that's wrong with me (so far). And after educating myself on the back pain forums, I know that things could always be much worse, as they are for many, which then made me feel GUILTY. The research scared me enough to know that I need to be thorough, as I'm the only one who has my best interests at heart. Exploring less restrictive options, makes sense to me. But, I do think that this is a slippery slope and eventually . . . I will have expired my options as they seem limited or so I thought till I began inquiring about laser or less invasive methods/procedures. . . Maybe one day I too, will be facing fusion, but hopefully after other measures have been realized. And it may come to pass that I kerplunk a hefty sum down, because of BCBS restrictions, which are a whole different thread!

We are all . . . at different "milemarkers" in this journey. I'm inspired and in awe of those that have traveled further than I. I'm learning what to do, how to handle the emotional strain and how to factor in your experiences in my decisions. What is right for one person, may not be right for another. And, we as humans, are often plagued, with the "would have, could have, should have" issues. Who is to say what's right? That is why I love learning from the "collective experience" that is genuinely shared here!

So, is it Don that is facing fusion surgery??? I believe you have done your homework . . . expired less invasive options, researched other procedures, gotten 2nd and 3rd opinions and now have to be thankful that fusion is in fact STILL a viable option. That in itself, may be worth celebrating! What's the alternative? Yes, it is heartbreaking that you are faced with this, but then again . . . there are many fusions that go very well.

I have read of these experiences on the other forum. I remember reading someone's post, that you will know if fusion is right for you, because you just can't live with the pain, or the quality to which your life has been reduced. If fusion gives you an opportunity of a better quality of life, than by all means believe it, embrace it and get your mind geared toward it and be the best "fusion patient" ever!! One's mind, and positive attitude etc., can help or hinder the intended outcome! Is it going to be an easy road? Probably not, but I'm betting that you have risen above adversity and perhaps much worse in an earlier part of your life . . . And it seems like you have a wonderful surgeon on which you can rely!

I sincerely wish you the best! Sometimes, we have choices to make and other times, choices are made for us! I believe God gives us signals.

On a lighter note, it reminds me of a joke (I don't tell good jokes, and it's harder to write them out) but this is about a guy who was stuck on a roof during a flood.

A man in a boat comes by offering the man a life jacket. The man on the roof declines, saying, God will save me! He will anwer my prayers.

A second boat comes by to offer the man a ride, and he responds the same, "God will save me, He will answer my prayers. . .

A helicopter comes along, and the man refuses assistance, saying again, God will save me. He will answer my prayers."

Unfortunately, the man died in the flood. When he arrived at the pearly gates, he questioned God, as to why he had abandoned him, and not listened or answered his prayers saying, "I prayed and prayed but you didn't answer my prayers".

To which God, replied, "son, I DID hear your prayers. Who do you think sent you the life jacket, boat and helicopter?"

We will all figure out what's best for our unique situations and I believe we will all come out on top! I've got some studying to do, finally a quiet house . . . sorry this was sooo long . . . have a great holiday weekend everyone!

C

Hello Roz,

Welcome to our thread.

I'm very pleased you and Carrianne were able to meet at Bonati.

Thanks for sharing about yourself and your experiences at the institute. I truly hope all goes well and that in a few weeks the pain will have subsided.

Roz, your thougths and experiences that you share here will help many I know. Not just those of us who post, but also those who just look in.

RichT

Hello All,

To make a long story short, my computer is dead. Hardward issues, so it may be a few weeks before I can get it up and running again. I'll be thinking about everyone of you. I'm so very pleased with the new posters. I wish I had time to respond to each and every one of you.

Carol, I really liked your God and the helicopter story. You made a most valid point. God does answer prayer, He just may answer it in a manner different from our limited vision.

Take care everyone.

Sure hope the hardware issue doesn't become major. When you build your own computer you are the one who has to get your hands "dirty".

RichT

P.S. - Thanks to my son, I can use his computer this evening.

Hi everyone and so sorry I haven't written until now. My second surgery was indeed more of a challenge as far as recovery goes than the first. Today is the first day I've felt somewhat normal.

I lost a lot of blood during surgery, don't know why. They did 2 blood patches as a precautionary measure in case there was a "knick" to my dura (outer covering of spinal chord). They took blood from my arm and injected it into the spinal area. As it turns out, there was no leak, but I've just had a terrible time getting back to myself. I've struggled with an unending headache, nausea, and dizziness. They tested my blood and found that I'm mildly anemic so getting my strength back is taking a while.

Good news, my legs don't hurt anymore! I still feel a little tweek here and there but Dr. B said it would go away. Yeah!!!

I'm going to get back on here and read the other posts in a couple days when my headache is gone (hopefully). It's hard to focus right now. But wanted to check in and let you all know what's been going on!

MJ,

It was so wonderful to meet you, and I'm sorry you had to see me lying on the couch in pain!!!! That wasn't normal!! You are very kind and I won't forget your calming voice!! Thank you!!!

Roz,

Welcome! It's great to see you on here! Please keep us updated on your progress!! Everyone, this is the "wheelchair one day walking the next" story I told some of you about on the other forum!!

Have a great day all!
God bless,
Carrianne

Hello Carrianne...........It is good to see you here, and know that you are up and doing so well and that your pain is almost gone. I wish well in your future plans. And I am so glad that we did get to see one another.

God Bless you.......mj

Saw my Pain Management Doctor on Friday. He thought the opinion of the first spine surgeon a bit too aggressive. The X-Ray of Spondy in his opinion does not show enough slippage to decide on fusion.
He offered pain medications first plus a referral to another Spine Surgeon.

So at present I am on meds. Celebrex 400 mg takes the edge off but the pain is still there. I would rather not spend the rest of my life taking meds, but my husband is urging me to consider this.

I am waiting for an appointment time to see the second surgeon. This one I am told does Minimally Invasive spinal surgery. I will ask if I am a candidate and I will ask his opinion of Laser surgery.

Carol are you taking meds between the injections and have you moved a little closer to surgery since your last post.
I am worried about the procedure of opening the lamina while not keeping in place the vertebrae. I worry will I be facing a further slippage of the openings created. Has anyone discussed this with you?
Donette Marie

Carrianne, I have been watching your posts from the old forum. I worried when you said the second surgery was difficult due to the lost blood and possible dura nick. That seemed to suggest one of the dangers that DS had brought up in all of his warnings on the old forum against lasesr surgery.

I am glad the results have provided you improvement. Hopefully this will soon be in the past and forgotten so you can get on with your young life.

Donette M.

Rich, Great!! I finally find you all and your computer goes down.
You will have to spend a lot of time at your son's place to keep up on the posts.

You know, if I didn't have this Spondy, I would move more quickly toward surgery. My Pain Management doctor does not belive my pain is from the Spondy.
It takes just too long between appointments with doctors that makes this process all the more painful to go through. I want to be like Joebob.
Done with all of this decisions, decisions, decisions.

Donette

Sorry everyone, for being AWOL for so long. Just so many things going on and my mind has been fuzzy with percocet in me. Long story I will get into.

Carol. so glad to see you with us again. You are the original poster who started a thread and we sure need you here too.

Carrianne, so sorry to hear you had a difficult second surgery. As we all no, there is no surgery of any kind that, that doesn't come with risks. Sad but true and that some surgeries run more risks than others. Glad to hear, though that you are slowly on the road to recovery and hopefully you will be up and around soon.

Rich, how dare that computer go on you now. You will have to take a trip to your son's tomorrow to tell us what happened with the new doc you are seeing. My fingers are crossed that this doc will be able to do something to help you or at least refer you to someone who can. If we need to, and I hope we don't, we can discuss further options up here in the Boston Area.

Donald, sounds like you've made the right decision for you. We all have a breaking point of pain tolerance, debilitating life style, and when that point is reached we then have to make a decision. Do we go on that way or do we do something to try and change the situation and try something to improve the quality of life we have.
You've made your decision after careful research and several opinions and it's a go for you. I'm glad you've made that decision. You've settled everything in your mind, are sure you have made the right decision for yourself and you are going with it.

Positive vibes going your way and my prayers as well. Keep that positive outlook with you and your confidence in your doctor. It goes a long way in your recovery.

Fran

Hello everyone
Yes this does have the feel of the old site.Nice to not have anyone telling
us what we can and can not talk about. I have been occupied with my
son, getting him ready for hockey.Everyday I am either swimming, at
the gym or ridding my bike. I have started skating and practicing
hockey with my son. No back or leg pain at all but the muscles are
having a little trouble adjusting.Nothing a good massage cant fix.
Streatching and walking several times a day has been the best for my
recovery.
Carrianne
So glade to hear you are recovering.keep walking and you will see the old
symptoms dissapiering and every day you will feel a little better.
Hope everyone had a good weekend

Joe

Hi Fran . . . nice to read your posts too!
Donnette:

When I sent my information to both Bonati and LSI, they both did not think the "instability" was an issue. No one, ever mentioned spondy to me . . . that's about 4 different doctors. The term they used was "instability." Which when I read the "stuff" sounds like "spondy!!" But, then again, what do I know. Glad you've got some time . . . to make your decision.

I'm not taking meds in between shots. A little or a lot of IB, usually does the trick. The neurontin and lyrica, etc. make me too fuzzy to think straight and I have enough trouble in that dept. on my own! So, I can either function and be in mild pain, or no pain and can't think? Hmmmm!

Off and running early this morning . . .
Everyone have a good day . . . Rich T will have his homework cut out for him until his computer problems are taken care of . . .

Don: how you doin? You've been too quiet! Same with LGS?

See ya later,
C

Joebob, When you talk about back muscles still bothering you,
are you talking about the muscles around the site of surgical entry?
My understanding of Min. Invas surgery regardless of laser or not, muscles are not cut, but pushed aside. I'm trying to decide why your muscles still make noise for you.

I know some orthopedic surgeons and some chiros always recommend ice on the back to reduce swelling at the aggravated site..no matter what the aggravation is caused by. After a certain period of time they then advise a person to go to moist heat for the purposes of bringing red blood cells to the area to increase healing time.

If you are having relief from massage, your massage therapist (if you are going to one) will uses different oils to cause the flesh on flesh (hands to body) friction to be smooth and gentle, but it also causes warmth to the tissues. My Neuromuscular therapist uses oils that have various spice smells that produce heat with the massage. I not only left the office feeling good, I had the lovliest smells of spice about me. Never the less, you might want to check out for youself whether moist heat will help you better then ice. Don't just use heat, it must be moist heat. I would never recommend moist heat from my experience in acute situations.

There is a heating pad called Thermophore which when placed on the back not only warms the tissues but produces moisture on the skin.
What's funny, no doctors here nor drug stores ever heard of it and the products they sell are really inferior. I bought one for all of my daughters as Christmas presents one year. I don't have the web site at the moment, but I could find it if you were interested. Google it also if your are interested.

There are doctors in Pennsylvania who are familiar with Thermophore.
Ahhh PA, the land of my birth, the woods of William Penn and the three rivers of Pittsburgh, the home of the Steelers. A place where you always have a friend in. So superior to Ohio.

DMarie B

C. Again thanks for the information on your medications. I wondered if I was becoming a hotel for the various meds that Doctors kept writing Rx's for to help with the pain. All those you mentioned I have the Rx for but I have never filled. If 3 Advil and 1 Ultracet for the day can put me to sleep, I can just imagine what those you highlighted would do to me.

And if the pain is controlled by pills, it does not mean the cause of the pain disappears.
And who wants to live on pills. My husband said if it eliminates the possiblity of surgery, he would go for it. My spouse is a non-confronter. I'm a confronter. If something is wrong, fix it.
So I am going to a surgeon in northeast Ohio for an evaluation and then I already have one mentally lined up closer to my home.
I keep asking my husband if he would like to have a 3 week vacation in Florida. He replies "not in hurricane season." Logical.

In the meantime, I am trying to judge the value between minimally invasive spinal surgery vs laser sppinal surgery.

Hey DMB
The muscle problem I am having is not directly related to my surgery
L/5-S/1. My thorasic area has been a problem for 20 years and now
that I am active and standing streight again those muscles and facet
joints are stiff. They are getting better and are not a big deal.
I use ice and moist heat for muscle relaxation. I have a tendency to
push myself to hard and I need to slow it down a little.Overall though
I feel awesome. Dr moffet and the whole Bonati team is the best.
Joe