Laser spine surgery

Hi, Thanks very much to all, I read the advice. I did have a follow up visit two days after the operation at LSI. I do know they kept asking me about my right side when we were down there and I told them no problems although I do have very and I mean very mild numbness in front thigh on the right side and did back then too. I thought it was from working in December cold weather but then realized the other thigh was OK. Anyway I never mentioned it to them and it has stayed the same. The official diagnose up here in NJ was Degenerative Disk Disease and another Dr said it was Arthritis in the spine. I have not seen a Dr since I have been back other than for Bronchitis I get every year from my job. A Flu shot and phenomia shot seemed to have stopped that this past season. But I decided since no pain (unless the hand cramps up) I will do nothing and hopefully the body will cure itself. Also I figure anyone in their fifties has this to different degree's so its kinda normal. I am back to work and back to my sport of position target rifle shooting. Before all this happened, a clinic Dr up here took xrays and showed me a normal neck xray and mine and my bones ot vertabre are closer together than the normal xray he showed and to make matters worse, my wife and I were in the examining room waiting and we overheard the nurse say I feel sorry for this guy, and it turned out to be me!!!! Another thing which got me angry was AFTER all this the Orthado. HMO Dr said after he asked me how the operation went, said your not out of the woods yet, your gonna be hurting down the road. I said at least I have LSI to maybe fix it. A couple weeks later when my son and I returned (my son hurt his finger in volleyball) he was much nicer and said "well, you never know". All I know is right now I am OK and am not going to open a can of worms and go through another $30,000 operation. I was down there 10 days in 2006 and even with a big break on the Double Tree Hotel (down the block from LSI,) it cost me big bucks above the operation cost. Don't get me wrong, if you hurt bad enough you will sell your house to get relief, no doubt about it, but right now its almost like it never happened other than the numbness of the left side of left hand and recent cramping up of fingers and hand and less stamina which might be age related and a little less strength in left arm probably due to the numbness. Exrecise does NOT help that arm but its still strong enough to do stuff with. So I am OK right now and no pain means EVERYTHING. Hopefully the body will now cure itself. If I stay this way the rest of my life, that will be fine by me. I am embarrassed to say this but before I discovered LSI in 2006 the pain was never ending and I thought of "you know what, twice" as I told my father who is 83 at that time, that I would not live my life in this kind of pain but thankfully it all worked out so far. That was in June of 2006 on the way back from Atlantic City Casino as they were trying to cheer me up at that time. I can't imagine the suffering other people go through for years before this modern tech. My pain happen quick compared to what I have read. I did have 2 years of warning signs I though weas a pulled muscle but you know the rest of the story from my other posts. Thanks for letting me vent.

Hello Ratter,

I don't know why you even posted on this forum. You obviously totally disregard all my thoughts and recommendations as well as those of Fran.

Ratter, I don't spend my time responding to people's back pain issues for the fun of it.

As far as your posts are concerned - this is the last one from me to you. Don't come whining to us on this forum and totally disregard our thoughts.

Enjoy your pain and numbness yet to come!

RichT

Fran....C6 C7 and Ablation. After operation a DR Kellog gives some kind of treatment for two days. Before operation one of the many tests was a nerve conduction test in which they stick thin needles in various spots on the side I had problems with and I think a jolt of electricity goes through the needles and a computer reads where the problems are. To be perflectly honest the entire affair down there, I was in a daze as it was scary and I wasn't sure of the outcome before the surgery. There were many tests before the day of surgery. Could not sleep a wink the night before. After the surgery Fl looked great and I always wanted to see Fl....and did. Never want to go through that stuff again however. There were no followup phone calls when I got back from them. My surgeryDr was a Dr St Louis suppose to be the top man in this stuff in the country. One other think is when I was there before the operation, one of the days, they had my MRI films all over a lighted wall.....about 4 or 5 Drs came in and right away said Mr soso I see you have some problems down here etc. Then they all walked out and I don't remember what happened next as I said this all was scary stuff to say the least. One reason I chose this place is I figured with all the old people in Fl, they have had to have had lots of practice and that was a major reason also for going to Fl.
Edited.... Fran I got the sheet out and exactly what was done is as follows and I don't know what this stuff means but here goes.....Left C6/7 laminotomy/foraminotomy with decompression of the nerve root with L Trapezius Trigger Point Injection and Ablation. That's all the sheet says.

Good morning Fran. I have read your info thanks very much. They give each patient an exercise booklet on specific exercises that should be done at home and a couple of sheets saying what not to do and what you can do. They do say if any problems occur to see your HMO Dr immediatly. There are much much more info on these sheet. They give the patients a plastic bag with all the info and for me a neck brace to be worn on the plane or in the car for the fist few days and no driving allowed but as a pasanger. I was in a daze because I was scared. The exercises did help as the muscles seem to tighten up and the exercises eased that, and they said to walk at least 20 minutes twice a day...at least after the operation. Not sure how long that was suppose to be done. Bandages had to be changed every couple days for a couple to three weeks and my HMO Dr up here removed the stitches. When I was down there, I told the DR 30,000 is all I had and he said he would do the very best for me, and he did. I do know that I was surrounded by medical folks when on the operating table like maybe 5 or 6. Before the operation they have you sign many forms such as permission to give you gas permission to do this and that and by law you have to listen to everything and sign papers. Then the anathesioligist (gas guy) comes out and has a chat with you about what he does and so on. There is an IV they stick in your wrist before the operation also but finally your turn comes up and in the operating room you go and they strap you down and prep you and start the procedure while you are in a twilight zone. You can watch the surgery on TV in the floor if you want to, and I did not. After operation you are monitored for I think for me it was 2 hours. In the plastic bag they give you, are 4 color pics of what they did but I have no idea of what I am looking at. My plane was leaving saturday and they wanted to give me one more injection (muscle relaxer I think) the following monday but my plane left sat so just got on the plane with my family and left. I was cleared anyway after the 2nd PT from Dr Kellog a nice man. Also forgot to mention they do give perscriptions which we had filled for anti biotic and percoset which the Percoset I had filled but did not take but did take the anti biotic as instructed. They told me that what they fix is perminent but they fixed only what I was complaining about and did not overhaul the entire spine. I have to be honest and say I am very satisfied with the results and am back to doing anything I was (I do try to take it a bit easier or go slower). All the pain is gone I can lift my arm above my head without pain and back cleaning gutters on houses seasonal work, I sit on the roof and lean forward to get the gunk out. I can sneeze and cough without surpressing the sneeze and cough, I lift the 30 ft ladder with my right arm and try to take it easy with the left hand and arm as much as possible. I have to highly recommend LSI to anyone who asks. Like I said the bottom line is PAIN IS GONE. Maybe I lucked out compared to some folks but I have heard very few negative things about LSI.This July 28th will be two years since the event and so far so good. The finger/hand thing just came up the last 6 or 7 months and my HMO GP Dr when I asked him about it said I have seen this a 1000 times and its Arthritis and he gave me that Aspercreme and and that was that up to now. So I am very happy and I discovered this site and put my expieriences on board so other folks can make their decisions on such a serious matter. Why Rich got pissed at my posts was simply wrong. If someone can't be honest, why bother having this site? Rich owes me an apology his remarks were cruel. I am not going to post anymore here as you know the story and I wish you the very very best. I think I gave too much info about myself already but if it helps others with their pain its worth it. I will say that 30,000 is a bit much but at the time I could care less about the money. Edited for correction in spelling and fixed a few wordings the best I could.

Fran I gotta laugh because (and I an NOT making this stuff up) you mentioned about a tooth pull and the night before we left I had an infected tooth and that hurt bad too. I called a dental emergency place up around 9pm and he came back to his office and had his nurses come back and he had to yank the tooth and the bill was $450. I asked why so much? and he said what I said above. The next day around 5am we were on the plane down to Tampa with a stop off at Atlanta. LSI gave me the number of a few travel agents and they saved me big bucks despite spending big bucks. You must remember that LSI is an OUT PATIENT place even though the surgery is still major surgery. Everyone was nice and the place had latest equipment is as modern as can be....they gave my family a tour of the place even though I didn't want to see it (but went anyway) when we first got there. The place was loaded with folks from around the world and I was stunned at so many people spending that kind of money. Never dreamed so many were hurting in this world from back problems. 2006 was a summer I will never ever forget as much as I probably should. PS I am NOT ignoring your advice. Its just that everytime you ask a different Dr, you get a different opinion and I am tired of all this stuff even though I am posting. I think you may be too hard on LSI as they do help tons of folks....92 percent success rate...who can argue with that???? I do hope your pains get eliminated with the surgery you had.

Ratter,
First let me say that I'm sorry that you feel the way you do and will not be posting anymore.
We, on this forum, try to give the best advise that we can from both experience and any and all medical knowledge that we have.

As for myself, first I am not a doctor, but I do have some medical training and have worked in various hospitals most of my life.
I am also a spiney, with good solid understanding of the spine, spinal surgery, symptoms and various treatments as well as experience with 2 spinal surgeries.

As for being to hard on LSI, well I personally don't believe I am. I am stating facts about spinal surgery and do not see that LSI is providing the level of care that should be given to spinal surgery patients regardless of how they do their surgeries.

Just because as you state "LSI is an OUT PATIENT place even though the surgery is still major surgery" doesn't mean they should be putting patients out the door in the fashion that they do and ultimately leaving patients to fend for themselves when they leave.

As for the number of people that go there from all over the world, isn't it interesting that if this type of surgery is so wonderful, that it isn't performed all over the world?
That they do not accept insurance and you have to pay out of pocket for the surgery, for the ability to get there, for the places to stay? And oh, they give you the names of travel agents to help you find places to stay.
That travel agent names bothers me as well.

92% success rate is LSI claims, that can only be documented with them, no where else can you find that information. If it was really true, i would think that their proof would be documented and available in medical journals and on the web, not just on their website.

All the modern facilities in the world and modern beautiful looking facilities have very little if anything to do with the skill and safety of patients. It's just a huge expense that the facility charges the patient and it makes the facility, on the surface look wonderful. It's what's under that facade that really matters.

Yes, you have to sign all kinds of paperwork before surgery, and you have to listen to it, but legally you are supposed to understand everything that you are being told before you sign the paper work and they are supposed to be sure that you do understand everything.
For safety sake, and added precaution and extra checks before surgery, you should be signing those papers in your doctor's office several days before surgery and you need to read and go over everything with the doctor then.
Then you have pre-op blood work etc in the hospital and go over things again there and sign and you meet with anesthesia then and go over everything then and sign.

Then the day of your surgery, that extra check and safety that is now required with hospitals across the country. Something that I'm sure LSI doesn't do nor do they do any of the above I stated.
You go over all the same paperwork to match what you already signed and sign it a second time. You go over everything with the doctor again and anesthesia again.

That is to be sure there are no errors with your surgery. There is no rush job as it sounds like there is with LSI.

LSI and other laser facilities are known for giving several rounds of steroid injections during and prior to leaving the facility post op. that keeps your pain level down but runs many, many risks with the amount of steroid in your body. One that is far from considered the normal and safe protocol for spinal surgery or any other type of surgery.

2 days of PT and then discharge with a sheet of paper for exercises is not responsible PT either. You need be followed for quite a few weeks to be sure you are doing the exercises properly. incorrectly doing them can cause serious harm to your spine, no matter what part of the spine it is and can undo the surgery that was done and create serious problems.

Go see your PCP if there are any complications. OMG, my PCP of more than 25 years would not only hit the roof, but he would refuse to treat them, let alone remove sutures from a spinal incision. That is the responsibility of the spinal surgeon. He, the spinal surgeon, needs to be sure the incision is healing as it is supposed to heal for a post op spinal incision.
And what does a PCP know about complications from spinal surgery. Absolutely nothing.

If I have any questions post op, they go to my spinal surgeon ASAP if needed, or when I see him for my post op visits.

The normal procedure for any post op spinal surgery is to leave the bandage on for the spinal surgeon to remove, unless it becomes wet from showering. If there is drainage coming through the bandage then you need to be seen ASAP.

The bandage is covered with a tegaderm covering which is pretty much water proof and if it does start to come off at the ends, then you just add another tegaderm to it.

I've never changed a bandage after spinal surgery, never had one come of or gotten wet and believe me, I've been in the shower many a time over 10 days before my first post op appt.

They may have told you that their surgery is a permanent fix, but nothing with spinal surgery is safe to call a "permanent fix". They fixed what was wrong at the tme, but there is plenty more in there at that level to go wrong that can require a repeat of what you had and more. and nerve ablation is not permanent no matter what they claim.

Also, did you tell LSI about the tooth that you had pulled before leaving for their facility and to have surgery? That is something they should have known ASAP and and no good spinal surgeon, if they had known, would have touched you for any spinal surgery for at least a month. You had an infection going on in your body from that tooth and any kind of surgery, short of a life or death one, puts you at very, very serious risk for massive spinal infection and systemic infection for at least 4 weeks.
One of the questions they should have asked was about your dental care over the past 4 weeks. I'm betting they didn't ask you any of that information.

And the best way to help avoid infection post op from spinal surgery is through an IV with a drug called anicef that is infused over a period of 4 hours, not an oral antibiotic afterwards. That is pretty much a waste of time.

And yes, you can get several different opinions about spinal issues, which is why it is so important to get several opinions before making a decision.
Besides my first spinal surgeon, that is my spinal surgeon, i had 5 other opinions, some agreed with him some didn't. I returned to my original spinal surgeon because of the trust and faith I had in him, what he said made the most sense, he was upfront and honest with me and explained everything as clearly as possible. nothing was hidden and nothing was glossed over.
He was a well experienced leader in the field for 20 years and you can't get better than him.

I can understand being tired of the spinal issues, but they are going to be with you for the rest of your life. They may get worse, you may have more of them, but you need to be prepared for that and when one gets numbness and tingling, pain as you describe, the first look needs to be with the spine, not a PCP.

When my original symptoms started that resulted with my first surgery, I went to my PCP without delay. They came on suddenly over night. went to bed fine and couldn't get up the next morning.
He did a basic lumbar x-ray to be sure there was nothing with the bones going on that could be seen on x-ray and it was straight to a spinal surgeon for MRI and proper diagnosis, from there I arranged several other opinions with other spinal surgeons.

This surgery will eliminate the pain for sure. It's not the result of problems with prior surgery or further problems with my spine. It's the result of a freak accident, being in the wrong place at the wrong time and in the way of a very elderly lady who should not have been behind the wheel of the car.

I wish you the best and hope that you do seek out a spinal surgeon to determine if these symptoms are from your spine or not.

Fran

HI again...I relented and posted again. Thanks for all the info. I DID call LSI I guess about 3 months ago and the girl who answered the phone said she doubts the finger hand cramping was from the operation but she did say to see a Dr up here ASAP. I then took my son to our HMO regular Dr as he hurt his finger in Volltball and asked him about this new problem and he's the one who gave me the cream and said he has seen this a 1000 times before and he didn't say another word about it...so i didn't. So its not like I didn't try to seek an answer. The good news is I think the cramping up thing is staying about the same. The numbness is here to stay but I will think about seeing another Dr sometime. Beings I have an HMO that means I will have to see the same Orthpedic Surgeon again. I will do that sometime but I will feel like a fool if its a minor thing and theres nothing wrong. To see the HMO Orth guy I have to see the HMO regular Dr who has to give me a referral and only then can I see him. Funny you would think this same HMO surgeon would have also asked me how things are going but never did. I think he was jealous he didn't get the money so thats why I don't like Dr's unless there is a broken bone or severe pain I try to avoid them as much as possible. I don't hate Dr's as there is a need for them and Dr St Louis helped me big time, but at the same time I am not a big fan of Dr's. Even if there is nothing wrong Dr's have a way of "finding" a problem so they can make big bucks and that is one reason I also avoid them unless the pain is too much. I enjoy talking with you even though the world can see everything being said.

When there is a person like Fran on a Forum, a person like myself does not need to post unless my experience is different.

Fran is correct about all of the papers that need to be done during the pro-op period for surgery. My preop was done a week in advance before surgery.
There was a special doctor who oversaw all aspects of my preop testing.
Because I had an annual physical with my PCP 6 weeks before surgery was determined to be done, I went into preop with my bloodwork papers and the special doctor did everything over because anything could have happened in 6 weeks to change the factors. All of this material was covered by anesthesia ahead of time. I read and signed papers, filled out questionaires on the computer etc. Everyone there knew about what I was having done, and why and what condition I was before I went into surgery.

Now what was different was this. I had no stitches to be removed. Dr. McLain did some sort of closing where my incision came together in a very smooth fashion and nothing could be seen from the exterior on my back. He told me his method but I didn't retain that.
Believe me I had a spouse and 3 daughters who examined that back constantly upon my return to home always looking for possible problems. I was coddled by everyone. They made drawings of where there were black and blue marks and they asked the doctor why this was blue here and why down there rather then over there. He was amused at the drawings that would be faxed to his office and took great pride in them that he could tell just where on the lumbar region they were directing his attention and questioning. When I had difficulty with several spasms, my husband was ready to drive me back to the clinic. But with some astute observations and conversations among all of the family, me, nurse and doctor and getting me off that mind blowing drug percocet, we were able to change my body mechanics on sitting and not going into a walking stage immediately upon getting up. We went to Tylenol X-tra Strength two taken every 6 hours.
I began to fell human again by the 4th week. That was just enough time for me to be able to walk in for my first post op vist to my doctor. dressed to the nines and looking like I was going to make it post spinal surgery. It was the second post op visit that I gave him a big hug and he hugged me too because he was proud of how I had handled it all. Oh yes, every time I went into those postop visits, an X-Ray was always done for observing the state of the Fusion.

My incision also had what looked like butterfly bandanges, maybe 18 of them and a second dressing on top of that. They were dry and clean. There was one check of the incision and one change of the top dressing before leaving the hospital. I had an IV going post op on which they piggy-backed an antibiotioc and this was changed four times that I can remember. My surgery was @ 3:30 PM on Friday and I was going up to my room at 6:00PM. IV's and piggy backs were removed sometime on Saturday.
I only remember the smiling faces of my doctor and my husband and my daughter post op as I was rolled our of surgery. I was up and walking to the BR by 8PM and all during the night because with a constant IV I have a small bladder and they nurses encouraged my walking. They also kept some sort or pump and covering over my legs which kept on/off pressure to prevent blood clots. I started yelling about that to Dr. Berg, my other orthopedic surgeon. I said that if I was getting up and walking it was a pain to keep putting all that stuff on my legs and taking them off. That was a lot of stress on me to get out of bed and move to the BR with the bladder under pressure of a lot of fluid. So to prove to him that I walked easily, I got my walker and I moved around the entire floor where spinal patients were located.
I left the hospital at Noon on Sunday. I was happy to leave because I thought the food was awful. Their soups were luke warm and their ice cream was melted from the heat.....pitiful.

7 months ago I could have told you every antibiotic I had and every comment that was made, but to have spinal surgery is like something that I never want to have again so I did not even try to remember the names of everything. I will never forget the surgical procedures that were done on me because if my spine grunts I run immediately for my drawings and try to determine if this something I should be concerned about.

I'm in love with my surgeon. He took all my pain away. I think his nurse is worth her weight in gold. And I think his secretary should get the Noble Peace Prize for getting me through all of the pre surgery requirements, directions and papers. I sent them all flowers when I got better. My doctor and his nurse are always a phone call away if I need them. I am very happy.

I am over 7 months out of surgery and I have no pain. I even forget about my spine. This is dangerous for me to forget because out of a thoughtless move, I could mess something up so I have to remind myself constantly not to do this and not to do that.

The Laser Centers would never have satisfied me as my surgeon has.
He is the most patient man, he actually enjoyed showing me ahead of time what he planned on doing and he liked the fact that I was so determined to know all of the details. In fact, I wish I were once more in surgery as a scrub nurse as I was 40 years ago and assissted him in my surgery but of course that would have been an impossibility.

With Fran's second surgery, she is now having a glimpse of how a person like me would have to take a long time in recovering and be free from all the accompanying pain that the muscles etc can cause post op. Fusion on top of all of the surgery is an entirely different ball game.
Oh and those people who claim that Fusion is barbaric, well those websites have not yet answered my questions on what do they do when there is spondy and so much surgery to an area that the vertebrae may not be able to withstand the general pressure of body weight in standing and sitting with out it.

I hope I never see another spinal operation and my heart can't stand reading people who continue to have pain post op. That kind of a nightmare would be more then my brain could take.
So if you are facing surgery or having postop pain, my deepest sympathies go out to you. No one can totally share what you go through during that trying time.

Marie B.

Ratter, Why are you at an HMO? Is that your only choice for insurance?

Secondly, When you are dealing with offices and people who are working there,
learn their names, and what their responsibilities. Keep the information on paper. Write the date of the call, the name of the person you are talking to and learn to ask more questions. As I have read your various posts, you seem to be a lamb walking through a medial/surgical system and believing "they know what they are doing so I won't ask." That opens the door to problems. You must make the attempt to educate yourself on your own health problems. That way you can learn to help your children. In today's world, I have leaned that you have to be as much of an expert in what could be wrong with you as the person who should be the expert. This is in all professions....even building a house. If you have some understanding you can then appreciate what is being done or not being done that should be done.

In addition to that, my thoughts to your last post was, "A person, man or woman, who answers the phone of a doctor's office has to be stupid to tell a patient what they think about the condition the patient may have". Diagnosis is not the job of a person who just answers a phone. Don't feel that you have to provide these phone people with health details that should only be given to your doctor. Give them only the basics. Eg. I have numbness in my hand. Be plain and simple.
Leave all of your talking to the doctor.

Marie B.

Hi. The problem with all the pre testing is I was I guess 1500 miles away from Tampa, I do not live in Fl. They did do a lot of testing when I got down there. I had to bring the MRI film with me on the airplane for them. They did have the earlier MRI Report and told me to bring the film with me so I did. The super expert Orthapedic surgeon up here told me to live with the pain and not to go to Chiropractors that they would destroy my back and then he said "I know what your going to do, your gonna go from Dr to Dr until one operates on you" He told me he was reluctant to operate because those operations are 50/50 at best with months of pain AFTER the surgery and high infection rate. Yet he didn't want to hand out the Celebrex pills or Percocet because he said they can ruin the liver in time. He said "LEARN TO LIVE with the PAIN" easy for him to say. He did OK the MRI and reviewed it as my wife and I went directly to the MRI place before he okay'd it and the MRI place said it was illegal for them to takone without a referral from the Orthopoedic surgeon. I waved $900 in front of them and they still would not do the MRI without the referral. So anyway one thing led to another and I found LSI on the web & it all worked out. My wife talked to many many patients at LSI and the impression we got was that LSI was the last hope they had as they have been through all the other operations which did not hold up in time....most said the conventional operations lasted from 3 to 5 years and the pain returned and LSI was their last hope. The procedure IS FDA Approved I checked that. The way LSI works is the way they want it to work and designed to I believe. To do anything else would require a hospital stay jumping up the bill even more. I am NOT saying other type operations don't work by any means but mine did. You mentioned not forgetting about your operation and again, similar expierience......my son likes to go snowtubing when it snows just once or twice a year. We took him and it was a snow covered hill with packed snow and the rider sits in a large truck like innertube and goes down a hill really fast. Well, it looked mildly safe and I got on the tube and the fool guy who pushes you spun my innertube as he pushed me down the hill and that did hurt with the twisting motion. NEVER again for me. They make you sign a form that you cannot hold them liable if you get hurt. My mistake. No more fair rides either....we just sit and watch. Getting back to topic, I am happy with the results of LSI...it worked. I will ask once agin the next time I go to the HMO GP Dr about the cramping up of the fingers but his answer will be the same but I will do it as Fran urged. LSI did give me back $1500 when we were down there and that did help with the expenses perhaps because I had the MRI done up here. The entire thing was a giant nightmare but did get to see Fl finally. I also got $800 back from the HMO months later....big deal, because I went "out of network". The appeal did not work. Part 2.....I tried to collect Disability from SS and they sent me to their Dr after a lot of paperwork and the Dr checked me out and aknowledged that I did and do have problems, wished me luck and I got an answer about a month later saying that so long as I can grasp something in the hand, I could find work and I was denied the disability...so back to gutters I am. You can find me on the LSI site if you look hard enough with the info provided in the posts. The entire nightmare episode is over with thank God! If you want any info on LSI I will try to help as much as I can remember.

Forgot to mention the person answering the phone at LSI is the answer person, not a receptionist. She seems to know all the answers. I only have HMO insurance and thats it. Health Insurance around here is unaffordable. Its hard for self employed folks to afford any insurance in this state. One big mistake(?) I went on their referral list and have gotten calls from everywhere each week since. That was a mistake but yet it helps others who are suffering. I am trying to have my name removed. I kinda thought that just maybe if another operation was ever needed, they would give me a break on the price but reality set in and thats wishful thinking according to my father and he's correct. I will go back if the need ever arises but A OK now and a happy person.

But, I hope everythng went well for you. And I hope you mend fast and safely.
Thinking about you,
Carrie

Late this afternoon I received a detailed copies of both my hospital and surgeons bills that where sent to my ins company.

After going over everything to see that there where no errors that I could detect, I was quite surprised at the total charges.

Remember now, these figures are what is being submitted to my insurance company and not necessarily what the insurance company will pay. There is the contract that exists between hospitals and doctors and they agree to accept the payment that ins will give them and there is no balance billing allowed.

I thought this was an interesting comparison to the costs that LSI charged Ritter. And these charges don't include the air fare to and from Florida for himself and his "family" because he lived more than 1,000 miles away from LSI and it doesn't include the cost of hotel rooms, and food while staying in Florida.

Ritter states that he had the following done at LSI in 2006

Left C6/7 laminotomy/foraminotomy with decompression of the nerve root with L Trapezius Trigger Point Injection and Ablation.

I'm not clear on what pre-op testing he had done and he brought his own MRI films with him.
He also had some PT visits with LSI

$30,000 out of pocket expense to LSI given up front before any surgery
- 1500 refund because he brought his own MRI films
_________
$28,000 out of pocket paid to LSI

-$800 refund from HMO
__________
$27,700 total cost for surgery at LSI


NOW TOTAL COSTS CHARGED TO MY INSURANCE COMPANY

I had a bilateral laminotomy, bilateral facetectomy, widening of the lateral recess, central foraminal widening and decompression. surgery was 2 1/2 hours

$12,310.07 Hospital charge, which includes the Pre-op room where I changed to
hospital gown, met with OR staff, anesthesiologist, pre surg nurse,
and my surgeon, went over everything again, resigned all paperwork,
all my drug allergies where gone over, my surgeon marked my spine
where he would be doing the surgery, IV was inserted, leg pumps
where put on and inflated to pump to help prevent blood cots and I
waited with my husband and best friend till I was taken to the OR.

Also includes the entire cost of the OR, OR supplies used, anesthesia,
and OR equipment. IV bags and piggy backed antibiotic that was
infused over 6 1/2 hours

Also includes the recovery room for 2 hours, post op check with
anesthesia and my spine surgeon.

Also includes a 23 hour admit patient hospital room which is an i
identical room to a full admission. Full nursing care that gave me my
own nurse that checked the bandage every 15 minutes for the first 2
hours and then every 30 minutes till I left the hospital at 7PM that
same night as my surgery. (my surgery was at 7:30 am and I was
out like a light just prior to that time, as the last time i saw a clock was
in the OR an it said 7:28 am). Included any and all nursing comfort
that I needed, including fluids to add to hydration, any pain meds that
I required, help in positioning in bed, and making sure that my hubby
and best friend where comfortable. answered any and all questions
that we had and was an excellent orthopedic surgical nurse.

Also included to post op in room visits with anesthesia to be sure my
lungs where clear, instructed on how to use a breathing apparatus to
continue to keep my lungs clear over the next few days to prevent
pneumonia and a double check to be sure I was using it correctly
before I was discharged.

2 visits from my surgeon before I was discharged

1 hour visit with a physical therapist to be sure that I knew proper
body mechanics to get in and out of bed, proper getting in and out of a
chair and on and off the toilet while keeping my back perfectly
straight. Got me out of bed to be sure that I could walk well enough
and was steady enough on my feet for discharge, made sure I could
climb up and down the physical therapy stairs without a problem and
was doing all of this without any remaining affects of the anesthesia
and any pain meds. Was able to use the toilet without assistance to
clean myself, otherwise I would have been given some handy PT
equipment to do so.

Also included making sure that I could void before being discharged,
able to keep liquids down as well as solid food.

Included a full meal for myself, my hubby and my best friend who was
with us.

Included very detailed going over of all instructions on what I could
and couldn't do post op till I saw my surgeon in 10 days. This was
carefully gone over with me, with my husband and my friend. I had to
sign the paper after verifying that I understood everything and
repeated all of it to the nurse, my hubby had to do the same as did my
friend.

Discharge which a nurse had to wheel me downstairs in a wheel chair t
to the car and verify that someone other than me was driving the car.


$5,741 My surgeons fee for surgery which includes my pre-op visit the week
before, my 10 day post op visit, my 14 day post op visit, m6 6 week
post op visit and my 12 week post op visit.

$2,415 Anesthesiologist charge

$969.58 All pre-op testing which includes complete blood work, chest x-ray
because of my age, over 40. partial physical as my complete physical
was 2 months prior, EKG, meeting with the OR staff that would be with
me just prior and during my surgery, meeting with the anesthesiogsit,
to go over all info, what would be done, drug allergies, medications
that I take, breathing tests because I have asthma, blood pressure
taken, temp taken, all paper work signed, and final instructions for
meds that can and can't be taken from that point on till after surgery,
when to stop eating and drinking etc.

_________

$21,435.65 Total charges for my surgery


Prior to my surgery I had a new MRI done.

$1100 billed to my insurance company, which included the MRI and the radiology reading and it was done at one of the highest rated MRI facilities in the country.

The out of pocket expenses for me, besides the gasoline charges to and from the doctors office, which I consider to be routine costs.

$100 Co-pay for a 23 hour hospital admission
$6.00 gasoline for the round trip to the hospital. We went in 2 cars, ours and
friend used her own and the distance wasn't that far from home.
$0 charge for breakfast for both hubby and friend as they where not charged
as they where there for me who was having day surgery.


There is over a $6,000 difference in just the charges between LSI and my bill, and i can't even come up with close to that difference by going to physical therapy and paying my $30 co-pay charge if I went for 60 sessions.

Just a bind boggling look at the difference in charges and remember that most times, laser facilities require upfront cash in incredible amounts for the surgery.

To me that is a crime to do to people in pain and just financially alone, it appears to be nothing more than a gross injustice of over charges for no good reason other than they can get away with it and people are willing to fork out that kind of money because the laser facilities make the claims that they do, but only back up those claims with their info of success rates, but why is it that is the only place you can find the info?

Fran

Fran, I'm really ticked off that you only had to pay $6.00 gas fees and round trip to boot? I had to drive one hour....add a half hour in traffic.... and that is only driving one way.
My auto gas was definitely a lot higher then that and I had to do the drive on each follow up visit and that is before gas became $4.20 a gallon.
It definitely is an advantage to living closer to the surgical clinic, but in between times, with no pain and lots of freedom of movement I'm happy still living in the cornfields of Ohio.
This is all said to you, Fran, with "tongue in cheek." and a smile on my face at all of your detail.

You know, except for the time of the surgery and the kind of surgery I had, Fran, we had almost the very same pre op and post op treatment. Because my surgeon and hospital were off panel I did have to pay a little more...$165. Then they sent me a return check of $165 telling me that I paid too much. Then I got one $35 from the anesthesia department. I did not pay anything else.

Never the less, I don't want to do this ever again. Once is definitely enough.

Marie B.

Cornfields of Ohio?? hmmmmm the National Rifle and Pistol Matches are being held there right now at Camp Perry right on Lake Erie near Port Clinton. Ohio is a nice state with lots of farms as I recall. according to the LSI chart that has a front and back view of a person, the chart has color pathways showing which nerveway's effect different parts of the body. The nerve that handles the pinky and left side of the hand is C8. Apparently more important woes were in C6 C7 as C8 was never touched...unless clearing the problem in C7 also made room in C8. I am not a Dr. I told everyone and I mean everyone there that the left hand was numb on left side. I guess the money wasn't enough for C8 or they figured the others C's were more important at the time. Perhaps there is more success with C6 and C7...I just don't know. They never said a word about C8 or never mentioned another operation. As far as education yourself about what Dr's do, thats Ok up to a point. They are going to do what they think is best despite. I think my problem with the left handside is C8 according to everything I have read. Its NOT Coral Tunnel Syndrome. I simply put all my trust to the pros at LSI as Marie said and let them handle everything like she said a lamb being led. That was exactly correct. Asking too many questions can turn a Dr or anyone off to the point they may be afraid to operate on you. You have to trust someone in these situations and a world famed Dr ST Louis (I found out he has world fame) is a great person to trust. LSI is dead set against fusions as they cause problems down the road. Any other back surgery is invasive and theirs is un-invasive hence the quicker healing time. I even saw www.youtube.com LSI segment. type in laser spine institute and several places come up. Interesting. Everyone has to make their own decision of such a serious thing. I agree the price is super high at LSI but look at it this way...its the price a car if things don't workout you bought a lemon. Nothing is guarenteed in any surgery anywhere but again 92 percent success rate. Better to have tried and failed than to wonder the rest of your life if only I had the LSI surgery. Look at it this way, in an hour or two on the operating table you can be fixed despite years of suffering some have been through. It simply works for many folks so far. You really do get your life back. The 8 percent it does not work I feel sorry for and maybe technolgy will come along that will in the future.