And our thoughts continue. GREAT!!!!
With most I agree, and I thank you for
your thoughts and information.
"The nerves that are involved in ablation
or rhizotomy, which is what this is called
are "minor nerves". They come from the
facet area and can be the cause of a lot
of pain, especially scinotica." - With do
respect Fran, these "minor nerves" (pain
nerves) do NOT CAUSE the pain, they only
respond to something that is wrong with
our backs in the form of pain signals to
the brain. That is a big difference. I
for one do NOT consider them to to "minor
nerves". Perhaps not nerves that deal
with the functioning of our bodies, but
important nerves to let us know when
something is not right with our spine.
"What I will call "traditional spine
surgeons" do not do nerve
ablation/rhizotomy." Again permit me to
differ, at least in part. "Traditional
spine surgeons" wil do nerve
ablation/rhizotomy in the course of
surgery if they deem proper to do so,
and/or if no pain management doctor is
associated with their practice.
AND most importantly Fran, I continue to
remember and thank you for talking with
your SUPERB spinal surgeon regarding his
recommendation of a spinal surgeon in my
area. His "recommended doctor" helped
immensely in helping me to determine the
best path for me to take. Thanks!!!
I welcome our stimulating communications.
Fran, may I ask how your back is doing
these days?
RichT
|
fenarrito
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 8
Burnt nerves Posted: 04-03-08 22:09pm
Fran and RichT and anyone else who cares
to hear,
That is exactly what I wanted to
learn from you guys and my concerns
were/are exactly what RichT was concerned
about. I will be giving my back hell,
hopefully, over the next decade and I want
to know when I have hurt myself. I feared
that I may not know, if I'm hurt, if I
have no nerves to send the signal to my
brain telling me I am hurt and to stop my
exercises.
My progress is, as of day 10 of my
PDD procedure from LSI, I am steadily
feeling less pain in my operation site and
I am feeling less and less pain in my hip,
leg, calf, foot. I still have the cold
foot feeling from before but it is
dissipating, I think, Daily. We will see.
More like comes and goes. That is the same
as before, though. I am still very
immobile and sedentary and completely off
all meds. I should say the
foot/leg/hip/etc... pain is also in and
out. Bottom line...The jury is still out.
Wish me luck. As of today my pain is a 1.5
but I haven't done anything except walk a
broken up 2 miles a day for 10 days and
lay on my back and eat way too much.
Thank you, Matt
|
Mel11
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 4
L4-5 DDD Posted: 04-04-08 19:42pm
Hello everyone;
I am impressed with Fran’s knowledge of
various spiny’s medical issues, I bet
she know more than some doctors. Before
seeing my Neuro last Wednesday I had
focused my attention on Bonati and
Microspine. I talked to United Health, my
insurance; they said Microspine is
in-network Bonati is not. Microspine and
Bonati are about 10 hrs drive from
Greenville, SC. To my amazement I found
about Foothills Pain Management Center
which is 1 hr from me in Seneca, SC.
According to Foothills, they are not
in-network with UHC and their fees are not
very different from Bonati or LSI. They
started their practice in July 2007 and
their Dr. McMillan do about 3 laser
procedures on average every week.
Microspine advised that you come in for
four days, three days for tests and the
surgery is on the fourth day.
When I met my Neuro last Wednesday I was
surprised twice. One: he did not know
about Bonati, LSI, or Microspine. Two: He
heard of Foothills and Dr. McMillan and he
said their laser procedure is an option. I
was shocked; I thought he would say these
guys are snake oil salesmen. He also said
since PM clinic could not diagnose the
source of pain and since my pain is only
in my lower back it will hard to pin down
what to do. I will do a new MRI on Monday,
he will ask for discogram after seeing the
MRI. He said, there are discograms now
where they inject and the patient would
stand to feel the pain, if any.
Mel
|
jimare
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 43 Location: ,
My LSI experience Posted: 04-10-08 21:27pm
Hi Rich, Fran, Marie, Carriane, Steve
It's been a long time since I posted
because I have been waiting to see what
the outcome would be with regards to my
procedure at the Spine Inst.
I am finally finished with LSI...my
treatment was not really successful...on
Feb. 4, at the last minute just before I
was to have a laminotomy/foraminotomy,
they decided to try doing Facet thermal
ablation on L2/3, L3/4, L4/5, L5/S1, and I
ended up having a lot of pain becoming
worse off than before surgery. They
called me back and gave me a diagnostic
nerve block on another level and it was
verrrrrry painful...they concluded my most
serious trouble spot was on L3/4 so
Monday, Apr 7, I sat down with the nerve
block Dr. and he recommended I have a
laminotomy/foraminotomy on L3/4. (I was
booked to have it Tuesday. ) I asked to
see the surgeon who turned out to be the
one who did my Facets in Feb. He went
over the MRI with several Drs. and
reiterated his previous position, and that
was, it would be very risky to do any
further surgery on me because of my 2
previous laminectomyies/discectomies. I
had the roof of my spine removed on 3
levels by a "quack" Dr. who basically is
responsible for most of my problems. They
said there was not enough bone left to
remove around the nerve root without
destabilizing my back. I appreciated
their honesty, and they really did want to
help me, and offered me the option of an
epidural steroid injection. I did consent
to that and must admit that today my pain
is less, especially in my leg. How long
it will last I don't know. I am
disappointed that I am returning home
still unable to stand and walk which I
haven't done for 9 years. I had really
hoped for a miracle with LSI....sigh....
but I have to admit, I saw a lot of people
in the waiting rooms who were totally
delighted with the surgery they received.
My own friend, in her 70's was given a
laminotomy/foraminotomy, plus thermal
ablation at LSI on Mar. 11. An hour after
the surgery she went to dinner, then went
walking in the mall. She is pain free and
couldn't be happier. I have come to the
conclusion that the surgeries that are
successful are done on people who haven't
had previous surgery. I don't fault LSI
except that I feel they shouldn't have
called me back in because they gave that
same diagnosis when they decided to do my
facets, and all it served to do was get my
hopes up again, plus I went through all
that unnecessary pain for nothing.
I might add, if they had been able to do
the surgery, they were not going to charge
me anything additional. For anyone
considering the surgery...I would say go
for it, unless you have a lot of complex
problems with your spine or neck.
The weather here in Florida is
90F...getting a bit too hot. Saturday, we
are leaving for home in Canada...just in
time to run in to a cold front, and
possible rain or snow.
Will be in touch.
Mare
|
westtexasdanny
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 09 Apr 2008 Posts: 1
New guy here..... Posted: 04-11-08 16:10pm
Hello everyone, this is my first post.
First off I'd like to thank all of you for
all the valuable information on this
thread. I first injured my back in the
summer of 1998, (just graduated high
school), and I've never been back to 100%,
more like 90-95%. The doctors at the time
said I ruptured three discs. I cant
remember which ones since it's been a
while now. After a round of physical
therapy and some stretching in 2000, I
began to feel way better. Well for eight
years I was well until this past January.
I cannot remember what I did wrong but I
blew my back out again. I finally said
enough is enough and began looking to see
if there were any new back procedures
besides spinal fusion (my dad would not
allow spinal fusion by the way). I found
out about LSI, Microspine and through this
board, Bonatti. I have a couple of
questions and I'm sorry if they've been
asked already. I would look through all
the pages and look for the answers but I
just don't have the time.
1) Are there any 20-30 year olds on this
board that have had any of these
procedures done on them? If so, how has
your back been since?
2) I was a health nut freak before I got
injured, actually still am. I lifted
weights up until I first got injured.
Would any of these surgery's help me get
back into strength training? (note that
I'm not overweight, I watch what I eat,
and I was able to sprint during those
eight years I was 90-95% okay)
|
littleonefb
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 138 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Re: New guy here..... Posted: 04-15-08 13:03pm
westtexasdanny
wrote:
Hello everyone, this is my
first post. First off I'd like to thank
all of you for all the valuable
information on this thread. I first
injured my back in the summer of 1998,
(just graduated high school), and I've
never been back to 100%, more like 90-95%.
The doctors at the time said I ruptured
three discs. I cant remember which ones
since it's been a while now. After a
round of physical therapy and some
stretching in 2000, I began to feel way
better. Well for eight years I was well
until this past January. I cannot
remember what I did wrong but I blew my
back out again. I finally said enough is
enough and began looking to see if there
were any new back procedures besides
spinal fusion (my dad would not allow
spinal fusion by the way). I found out
about LSI, Microspine and through this
board, Bonatti. I have a couple of
questions and I'm sorry if they've been
asked already. I would look through all
the pages and look for the answers but I
just don't have the time.
1) Are there any 20-30 year olds on this
board that have had any of these
procedures done on them? If so, how has
your back been since?
2) I was a health nut freak before I got
injured, actually still am. I lifted
weights up until I first got injured.
Would any of these surgery's help me get
back into strength training? (note that
I'm not overweight, I watch what I eat,
and I was able to sprint during those
eight years I was 90-95%
okay)
Welcome Westtexasdany, to our spiney
family here.
I'm not sure if there are any 20-30 year
olds on this board to answer that question
for you, nor am I sure if any of these
procedures would help you either.
I will say thought, that I am not
surprised that over a period of time and
PT that your 3 discs healed on their own.
Most herniated/ruptured discs will heal on
their own.
You make no mention as to whether you have
seen a specialist for you spine since your
pain has returned nor do you mention any
diagnosis.
I would suggest that you see either a
sports medicine orthopedic surgeon who
specializes in spines only or a
neurosurgeon that specializes in spines
only and get a diagnosis.
I would assume that you will need an MRI
as part of that diagnostic information as
well.
As for lifting weights again, I can't
really answer that one either, only a
spine specialist could and that would also
depend on what your spinal issues are as
well.
I will tell you this though, that once you
have spinal issues, regardless of what
they are, your spine is more fragile and
needs more care in what you do.
Core strengthening of your muscles is the
most important thing for those with spine
problems and will become a permanent part
of your life, but those exercises need to
be started with a physical therapist after
a doctor tells you that it is OK to do
them.
Please see a spine specialist for proper
diagnosis, don't assume that you have the
same spinal problems now hat you did in
the past.
And do keep us posted on what the
diagnosis is and anything else that we can
help you sort through.
Fran
|
RichT
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Posts: 775
Thanks: 6
Thanked:0
Posted: 04-16-08 16:36pm
Hello Westtexasdanny,
Welcome to this forum and to this thread.
Fran has given you EXCELLENT words of
wisdom and advice.
DO see a spine specialist (with MD in back
of his/her name). A thought - If you have
a professional sports team in your area I
would suggest that you give their office a
call and find out which spinal doctor they
use for their players.
Also, seek out 2nd and 3rd opinions. In
my view always a good thing to do.
Okay you 20-30 year olds, come help Danny
out (I know you are out there LOL).
I wish you the best, and do let us know
how things go for you.
RichT
|
littleonefb
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Aug 2007 Posts: 138 Location: ,
Thanks: 1
Thanked:0
Re: My LSI experience Posted: 04-17-08 12:08pm
jimare
wrote:
Hi Rich, Fran, Marie,
Carriane, Steve
It's been a long time since I posted
because I have been waiting to see what
the outcome would be with regards to my
procedure at the Spine Inst.
I am finally finished with LSI...my
treatment was not really successful...on
Feb. 4, at the last minute just before I
was to have a laminotomy/foraminotomy,
they decided to try doing Facet thermal
ablation on L2/3, L3/4, L4/5, L5/S1, and I
ended up having a lot of pain becoming
worse off than before surgery. They
called me back and gave me a diagnostic
nerve block on another level and it was
verrrrrry painful...they concluded my most
serious trouble spot was on L3/4 so
Monday, Apr 7, I sat down with the nerve
block Dr. and he recommended I have a
laminotomy/foraminotomy on L3/4. (I was
booked to have it Tuesday. ) I asked to
see the surgeon who turned out to be the
one who did my Facets in Feb. He went
over the MRI with several Drs. and
reiterated his previous position, and that
was, it would be very risky to do any
further surgery on me because of my 2
previous laminectomyies/discectomies. I
had the roof of my spine removed on 3
levels by a "quack" Dr. who basically is
responsible for most of my problems. They
said there was not enough bone left to
remove around the nerve root without
destabilizing my back. I appreciated
their honesty, and they really did want to
help me, and offered me the option of an
epidural steroid injection. I did consent
to that and must admit that today my pain
is less, especially in my leg. How long
it will last I don't know. I am
disappointed that I am returning home
still unable to stand and walk which I
haven't done for 9 years. I had really
hoped for a miracle with LSI....sigh....
but I have to admit, I saw a lot of people
in the waiting rooms who were totally
delighted with the surgery they received.
My own friend, in her 70's was given a
laminotomy/foraminotomy, plus thermal
ablation at LSI on Mar. 11. An hour after
the surgery she went to dinner, then went
walking in the mall. She is pain free and
couldn't be happier. I have come to the
conclusion that the surgeries that are
successful are done on people who haven't
had previous surgery. I don't fault LSI
except that I feel they shouldn't have
called me back in because they gave that
same diagnosis when they decided to do my
facets, and all it served to do was get my
hopes up again, plus I went through all
that unnecessary pain for nothing.
I might add, if they had been able to do
the surgery, they were not going to charge
me anything additional. For anyone
considering the surgery...I would say go
for it, unless you have a lot of complex
problems with your spine or neck.
The weather here in Florida is
90F...getting a bit too hot. Saturday, we
are leaving for home in Canada...just in
time to run in to a cold front, and
possible rain or snow.
Will be in touch.
Mare
Hello Mare,
I'm so sorry to hear that your attempts to
relieve your pain at LSI where not
successful and that you suffered further
pain for some time after their attempts.
From what other people have told me that
have had facet thermal ablation, it can be
very painful for several weeks afterwards,
as there may be quite a bit of bruising
and pain from the nerves being ablated.
They did recover from that pain though and
had good results from the procedure for
quite some time in the end.
I, myself, have had a combo diagnostic and
pain relief selective nerve block to the
L3 vertebrae disc and had immediate pain
relief for about 48 hours from the
lidocaine part, but it took about 2 weeks
for the steroid to kick in and provide the
pain relief, which has lasted almost 5
full months. it is just beginning to wear
off now.
I am quite surprised though with your
entire experience with LSI and very, very
puzzled to say the least.
If I remember correctly Mare, though I
could be wrong, you sent your medical
information to LSI and they where fully
aware that you had had a previous 3 level
laminectomy.
With that information in hand, I don't
understand how they would have thought
they could do a laminotomy/foraminotomy on
the same or any of the vertebrae L2/3,
L3/4, L4/5, L5/S1, without creating total
havoc in your spine and leaving you with
any stability at all.
I don't see how there would have been
enough bone left to do this and don't
understand why they would have had you
come all the way from Canada twice for
that type of surgery.
That was a massive amount of money for you
to spend and do it twice for them to tell
you that, especially after you where about
to have the surgery done once, they
proceeded to do something different, sent
you home in quite a bit of pain, then had
you come back to have the surgery and then
tell you NO.
I'm disturbed, as well, that you where
told one thing by the doctor that did the
nerve blocks and then something very
different from the surgeons.
My experience with my spine has been that
surgeons make the decisions about spinal
surgery, not pain management doctors.
Pain management doctors work with patients
with their pain, do ESI, nerve blocks etc.
and if that does not provide pain
relief, they refer that patient back to
the surgeon for further evaluation, but
they do not tell the patient what surgery
needs to be done.
The many people that I know personally and
have talked with have all had the same
experience as me with spinal surgeons and
pain management doctors.
Your description of your experience just
sounds like the docs where not working
together and the old, "one hand didn't
know what the other was doing" applies.
I'm also puzzled by the statements that
you had already been told by the surgeons
at LSI about how risky it was to do the
surgery and then you went back a second
time, had more tests done and then you
where booked for the surgery that you had
already been told was too risky to do and
then, again, told by the same surgeon that
it was too risky to have the surgey.
I really don't understand why they would
have had you come back and go through the
same thing all over again. That is very,
very disturbing to me.
Personally, I think you are being much to
kind to LSI when you state that you
appreciate their honesty. Just based on
what you have said, honesty was really
lacking with them. They should have known
it was too risky to do further surgery on
you the first time, based on your spinal
surgical history; but they not only had
you come once, but twice and both times
gave you the same information, too risky
to do further surgery without creating
serious problems with your spine.
There was absolutely no reason for them to
have you come back a second time.
If it where me, I would be furious about
the first trip down there and totally
irate about the second one and demanding
any and all money be returned to me from
the second trip, at the very least.
I do agree with you on this comment. If
LSI or any of the laser facilities can
help you, it has to be a very simple
uncomplicated problem that has not been
previously treated with any other spinal
surgery.
Anything that combines several different
issues and/or previous spinal surgery that
compounds the issues, is more than can be
handled by them and the results will be
speculative at best.
I hope that you continue to have pain
relief from the ESI that you got.
It does sound like to me, though, that if
you really want to obtain pain relief, you
are looking at traditional spinal fusion
at 3 levels.
I am not a doctor, but that is my best
guess.
I know that spinal fusion is a scary
thought, but, if it is your only option
for pain relief, after 9 years you may
want to think about it.
I know several people who have had 2 and 3
level lumbar spinal fusions and have
recovered well, have no pain and have gone
on with their lives and have no regrets in
making that decision.
Good luck with your decisions on what your
next step will be and let us know what you
decide.
Fran
|
Marie B.
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 215 Location: Ohio
Fear of Fusion Posted: 04-17-08 13:24pm
Hi Fran and Rich.
I have returned from soaking up the sun in
the south and now I am back to Ohio where
at last the sun is making its reappearance
and there are temperatures in the 70's.
Where is the fear of fusion coming from?
There is an old report on the internet out
of England which claims that American
doctors are out of step doing multi level
fusions which was passed to many people
who post on Forums. I'll leave its name
for Rich to give it to you if you want to
read it.
In the earlier, first Laser forum, Joebob
alerted us to the fact that there were
people at LSI and Bonati who were in
florida having the titanium rods removed
from spines because of claimed
difficulties from the rods themselves.
And we know the laser centers do not do
Fusions. And there is a natural fear of
having alien objects put in our bodies.
Many posters, eg. Carol feared and were
reluctant to have Fusion even with her
having reported spondy.
I have never met anyone who has had to
have their rods removed from their spines.
Of course, I never have gone to Florida
for laser surgery. I know plenty of
people who have spinal fusion and they are
not all over 50. They are happy that they
have no pain any more. I am one with
Fusion with no rods because my surgeon
believed that the Fusion InSitu would work
for me and he did it all under minimally
invasive surgery....a 3 inch incision...or
if you want to be more accurate a 2 and
onehalf inch incision. I HAVE HAD NO PAIN
FOR 6 MONTHS from my surgical date.
Has anyone ever gone to a skeleton and
measured a human lumbar vertebrae? Some
of them are well over an inch from top to
bottom. Fran and I have smaller ones,
right Fran?
The laser centers ON THEIR WEBSITE tell
you that they will only work on one level
at a time in one surgery with a one inch
incision at about $50,000 an inch and they
only do what they call minimally invasive
surgery. Doesn't that tell you something?
Now, if you have a laminectomy or a
laminotomy or a foramenectomy or a
foramenotomy.....they are removing bone
from your spine. This weakens the
vertebrae upon which it is done. If you
have this done on more then one level,
risk for your spine enters the picture.
How are you going to keep that deck of
bones vertical if you weaken its base
which is the lumbar region? If the spine
begins to collapse even the tiniest amount
any, some, or many of those zillion nerve
bundles in the cauda equina can be
effected and cause pain. So you have got
to make a decision right when you decide
which superlative spinal surgeon, (mine
had an orthopaedic background before years
of spinal research and operating) you are
going to decide upon to STOP THE BACK
PAIN!
And you research and you research which
doctor is giving the best advice to you.
And you examine his record as best you can
by talking to everyone that moves and
breathes at the hospital he works. You
talk to every one who has had spinal
surgery and you question their surgery and
their results.
If the very best Surgeon you have chosen
says "Fusion is for you", you have got to
recognize that it is you who are opening
yourself up to problems, no matter how
many steroid injections with lidocaine and
pain paste they may give you immediately
post op to reduce the post op surgical
pain, if you say a big "NO TO FUSION."
And if you have got more then one
vertebrae involved you are really playing
cards with your spine.
As for discs in the spine. My MRI showed,
buldging tires, flat tires and blown out
tires all the way down my spine from the
Thoracic level to the Lumbar level. My
MRI looked like I had been in special
forces jumping from airplanes. My spinal
surgeon never touched one of those discs;
not one of them! He insisted my MRI which
was on a CD be turned into FILMS as on
X-Ray. He did it at his own cost. I was
told later by his nurse that he likes
seeing the film better then on the CD
because he gets better detail when doing
surgery. There was no way I was going to
complain about that.
Other doctors kept saying they wanted to
do disectomies, partial disectomies etc.
That is why I kept looking until I found a
doctor who spent over one hour addressing
all of my concerns. I have given my
doctors name to many people. None have
gotten back to me about whether or not
they went to him. That's O.K. Their
decisions are not my business.
Fran and I think very much alike in regard
to the Laser Centers.
Fran, I think we can stop worrying about
people who continue to lean toward them
and defend them. I know it is our nature
to warn.
Rich, sorry to say this in an open way,
but I am going to have to see Joebob
involved in skating ice hockey before I
will can accept that he is still O.K. I
also promise you Rich that I will let you
know when and if the first stab of pain in
my spine occurs which means more surgery
for me.
God forbid that it ever happens. That
surgery is a trial not only for the person
having the surgery but also the entire
family involved.
While I was in North Carolina I met a
young woman...young I say...had two spinal
surgeries in two years and she was still
in severe pain. And there was this spry
little grey haired lady who had spinal
surgery 6 months ago running around the
banquet room greeting many old friends and
who stopped and listened to the young
mother for a very long time sympathetic
with her about how bad things were for
her. Her husband kept saying to me, "I
will never let her have another spinal
surgery again because it was too
traumatizing for me and the family." SHE
WAS THE ONE STILL IN PAIN!
There is no way another person can force
ones opinion on another. We can only
sympathize with the ordeal the other is
experiencing.
Fran, I hope you are able to have long
periods of time on those injections.
I would hate to see you have to go in for
another operation.
Marie B.
|
jimare
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 43 Location: ,
re spinal fusion Posted: 04-17-08 15:44pm
Fran
I would probably have had fusion if it had
been an option for me, but my last surgeon
said fusion would not be a good option for
me as I had serious problems on 7 levels
and it I got a three-level fusion it would
just keep moving up the spine. He
basically said there was nothing more to
be done for me, which was one of the
reasons I was in desperate straights and
hoping against hope that LSI could relieve
even SOME of the pain I was enduring. Our
When I advised them that the thermal
ablation had made me feel even worse and
they asked me to come back in to do a
diagnostic nerve block on L3/4 I guess I
was still hoping for something
miraculous...but I agree entirely with
you...the left hand doesn't seem to know
what the right hand is doing around there.
That is why I insisted on talking to the
surgeon before I came in for some
"mystery" surgery the next day. When he
repeated what he had told me when he did
the facets I was ready to take somebody by
the throat for causing me to go through
that awful nerve block for nothing.
You said I was too kind...well, we talked
to many of the patients who had gone
through different procedures, and were
back there for PT and the majority of them
had the lam/for done on them...lumbar and
cervical, and they were for the most part
grinning like banshees and sounding the
praises of the surgeons....many were
totally astounded that their pain was
TOTALLY gone. The positive reports were
running at 20 to 1 I would say. We had a
lot of occasion to talk to people having
gone in 5 days in a row in Feb. and also
in Apr.
The fact that I was one of the unhappy
ones doesn't detract from all the ones
that were delighted. The disgruntled ones,
like myself, seemed to be those with prior
surgeries. If I could do it all over
again from my very first surgery, I would
much rather opt for laser surgery than
open back because the success rate is so
much higher. I stayed in Florida from
Dec. right in to Apr. as we have a place
in Lakeland so thankfully we didn't have
to make two trips. They refunded me
$1,000 for my trip. If my end results had
been positive, as my sister's and my
friend's were, I would have considered it
worth it at twice the price I paid.
Unfortunately there are no guarantees with
any surgery. My two open-back surgeries
were failures, too, but fortunately they
were covered by insurance.
That said, I think my back and leg are a
little bit better since I have arrived
home, and am resting it more. Maybe the
steroidal injecion is helping some. I am
able to survive the day using only Tylenol
extra strength, and add an Ativan at
night. Night seems worse because my leg
knots in several places.
Now, it seems there is only one option
left to me, and that is in the hands of
the Great Physician.
Mare
|
Marie B.
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 28 Aug 2007 Posts: 215 Location: Ohio
The Great Physician Posted: 04-17-08 18:23pm
Mare, Sorry to hear you still have pain.
Also sorry the laser centers have been
unable to hold out hope to you. It does
seem true what you said about the
continued problems being with those who
have had prior spinal surgery. And you
certainly aren't an old person to have had
serious problems at 7 levels. But who
knows why or what activites or what
unknown factors from other health problems
of the body enter the picture to cause
multiple difficulties in the spine.
Years ago, when I was a very active young
woman with children, my aging Father used
to say to me, "One of the things you
should pray for is "continued good
health." Since he was not a sickly man, I
never took to heart his advice. Now I see
his wisdom. We all see the wisdom of our
parents too late.
It is also true what you said, "All
things are in the hands of the Great
Physician". A very close friend of mine
who is a priest said many Masses of
petition for me when I went in for surgery
and many for Thanksgiving during my
healing time. I was in Great Hands.
The priest, when young, had broken his
back in two places. We consider him a
miracle because he has healed completely
with no surgery. His spinal surgeon still
looks at the CT scans and is amazed.
There are no signs of where the bones had
broken. This priest is a man who is a
true faithful priest working among the
poor and widowed.
So did you get to see Carrianne? Hope you
gave her our best.
Marie B.
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jimare
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 43 Location: ,
re Carrianne Posted: 04-17-08 21:53pm
Unfortunately I didn't see
Carrianne....would have been nice. On one
of my PT days I asked her if she could pop
in to the Institute, but that ended up
being her day for PT and she couldn't make
it. I talked with "Daisy" on the phone
quite a bit (she is usually on the other
forum). She lives just outside of
Lakeland FL and they have a business in
Lakeland. She was doing a lot better
since her surgery at LSI...she said about
70%...and she felt she was getting her
life back. We were trying to arrange to
get together for lunch, but didn't work
out before I left...so we plan to keep in
touch and when we go back in Nov. will
try. Where is Carrianne? Does she still
post on here?
I also talked to DaveDorian several times.
He had the same experience as I
did...they were not able to do the planned
Lam/Foram and ended up doing Facet Thermal
Ablation. He says he is some better, but
still experiencing pain. He is over 10
years younger than I, so most likely will
be fighting this back problem for many
years to come.
The surgeon who did my last hernia
operation in 2006 said a lot of my problem
probably stemmed from abuse of my spine in
lifting things that were way too heavy
(like building flat stone steps from our
cottage to the lake), as well as injuries
I probably obtained when I did tumbling as
a young teen (landing on my head too many
times). And then there is our old friend
Arthur Itis. Like you said, basically,
"too soon old...too late smart".
Mare
|
jimare
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 43 Location: ,
something new to check out Posted: 04-17-08 21:59pm
This is a new procedure they are trying
for people with severe stenosis...check it
out
Mare
New to forum, old to pain Posted: 04-18-08 19:40pm
Hi all,
Read the first 7 pages, skipped to pg 52
due to time constraints. I am Alan, and I
guess I am a Spiney. 11 years ago,
herniated L4-L5. Pain at first, but it
subsided. Doc said try your best to live
with it. Well, I have led a fairly normal
life. Work, kids, all the good and bad
this world provides. Then... for some
reason, 3 months ago.... OUCH!. Now I
struggle getting out of bed. Standing in
the shower. Sitting for long periods.
Chiropractor did his best, sent me for an
MRI. L4-L5 herniated to the left, with a
fragment. That would explain the stabbing
pain in my calf, the invisible vise around
my left ankle, and the tingling in my
toes. L5-S1 also herniated to center,
causing slight issues with bowel
movements. Pain issues, that is.
I am 43, used to be strong as a bull, now
I tear up when I feel a sneeze coming on.
My three jobs keep me moving. I thank the
Good Lord I can still climb ladders,
albeit through clenched teeth and a
painted on smile. The stretching and
exertion seems to help. My second job
involves a lot of walking, which seems
also to help. My third job is a bit more
sedentary, must take frequent breaks.
I am trying to get a neuro appt, could
take two months. Until then, there's
laughter, a supportive family, and pain
meds.
Thanks for all the great info here. You
all have been through a lot, and are a
collective inspiration.
Alan
|
fenarrito
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 8
Alan Posted: 04-20-08 17:35pm
Hello Alan,
My advise is go to
laserspineinstitute.com and check them
out. It, I believe, WILL change your life.
I wish to God I would have gone years ago.
Period. My update is I am postop from
March 25, 2008. I am slowly recovering
from a PDD, or coblation on S1-L5 bulged
to center, I am 38, surfer, college
wrestler, weights etc...I start PT Monday
and I am ready to get my life back. I
cannot say my PDD is 100% successful,
although LSI said it could take up to 8
weeks to see full effects of my procedure,
but I saw 50-80 people with descriptions
similar to yours and they were on, what I
perceived as, a fast track to recovery. It
will cost you 30k. So be ready. I spoke to
2 people who had had a surgery and a
procedure who had been dissatisfied with
the work they had done. They were back
there, on LSI's dime, getting additional
work done on their problem areas. A funny
side note: My PT Dr.'s mother and father
in law had just had surgery 6 days from
when I went for my first visit from LSI.
He too was impressed. That made me feel a
bit better.
Hope I could help, Matt
|
algosdoc
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 187
Posted: 04-20-08 19:54pm
Coblation disc decompression is not laser
surgery nor should it cost $30K. Check
with your local pain physician for a
reasonable rate.
|
fenarrito
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 8
correction Posted: 04-21-08 01:13am
My cost was 14k with PDD at S1-L5 and 2
levels of facet nerves "burned off" at
S1-L5 and L5-L4. Others had paid 30k for
their work and I had to post up 30k before
my procedures. I was later mailed 15k
refund plus 1k for travel expenses. I
believe the cost was more than fair. I
just hope I keep having progress.
Tks, Matt
|
algosdoc
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 187
Posted: 04-21-08 04:48am
Your "facet nerves" will grow back within
6-12 months so you really don't know if
you actually needed a PDD or not. An
adequate workup before hand would have
included diagnostic medial branch blocks,
followed by a radiofrequency procedure to
denervate the facets. The coblation
device is not approved to "burn off facet
nerves" so we really don't know the long
term effects of such or whether the nerve
itself vs the facet capsule was vaporized
by the coblation device.
Just caveat emptor....if LSI has
independently confirmed results regarding
their procedures (it appears they do a
bunch of procedures at the same time) then
they should be published in the
literature, however I have not come across
such.
15K is a much better price, however docs
in our area do this 5 minute procedure for
less than $3K. I am not criticizing
your choices since you did what you needed
to do based on the available information
on your condition. I am however,
attempting to inform others about the
intrinsic details of these procedures so
they can make informed choices. I hope
you do continue to improve.
|
fenarrito
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 26 Mar 2008 Posts: 8
Posted: 04-21-08 12:44pm
cool thank you, Matt
|
algosdoc
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Posts: 187
Posted: 04-21-08 14:33pm
The microdiscectomy as used by Dr Tolli,
is a standard open surgical technique
employed by thousands of neurosurgeons and
some advanced orthopedic surgeons. It
involves a small incision, utilizes an
operating microscope, and frequently
incorporates a Nd YAG laser. The skills
of a surgeon are dependent on their
experience with a technique and matching
techniques with the surgical pathology.
Typically a microdiscectomy technique
offers better visualization than a
strictly endoscopic or endoscopic/laser,
or even worse a blind laser technique.
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This page was last updated on June 11, 2008
