Abortion Debate Forum - Another 'what If' Scenario

Moo

replied on August 5th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

This is a very interesting viewpoint.

I wonder how many of the pl-ers on here have adopted one (or more) and the millions of unwanted children who have been born into the world Question

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monkeygirl22

replied on August 5th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

Well, I am pro-life, but let me make clear that even though I am pro-life I do not condone anyone lashing out or looking down on people who do choose abortion. Even though I don't believe in something does not mean I can push my beliefs on others.

Now more to the question. My husband and I started talking about adoption before we even got married. We do want to adopt when we can. Unfortunately, it's so expensive to do that we are going to have to wait. We are having our first child in february. Hopefully, when I get out of school, which will be in 2-3 years we can start moving forward in our plans to adopt at least one child.

I do agree that there would probably be a lot of pro-lifers who would lie though to get out of supporting an extra child.

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Birch

replied on August 5th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

Interesting scenario.

Let me first say I would've fought like hell against the passage of such a law for various reasons, including but not limited to: 1. being forced to report your political views to the gov't and 2. the potential of forcing people to be parents agitates my prochoice philosophy.

Secondly, I am not convinced that just because someone is prolife means that they should be obligated to raise someone else's child. While I do know that prolife's viewpoints often align with political views that stunt the advancement of single mothers into higher economic brackets and therefore impede their children, among other things, I would not support a system that requires people of a certain political ideology to be financially bound to something that others of the opposing viewpoint would not be.

While I think that prolife people *should* be more prolife than they are I do not think we should legislate morality for them.

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meblonde01

replied on August 5th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

Good Point Birch. Not all people would be good at being a parent.. Taking on a child just for the “cause" would not be a good idea for people that had no parenting skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt I was too old so I volunteer at the children's hospital and only once a month (it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so I helped him raise his son who was 2 when I met him and is 23 now. And in his last year of college. wooo hoooo.. Very Happy

I’m not trying to pat myself on the back ( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t mean you have to adopt to be active in children’s life that are less fortunate.

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Carifairy

replied on August 5th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

There are many kids in the foster system that NEED adoption.

They will PAY YOU to adopt them...

Unless all you want is a fresh from the vagina newborn...

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haliparot

replied on August 5th, 2007

Experienced User

meblonde01 wrote:

Good Point Birch. Not all people would be good at being a parent.. Taking on a child just for the “cause" would not be a good idea for people that had no parenting skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt I was too old so I volunteer at the children's hospital and only once a month (it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so I helped him raise his son who was 2 when I met him and is 23 now. And in his last year of college. wooo hoooo.. Very Happy

I’m not trying to pat myself on the back ( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t mean you have to adopt to be active in children’s life that are less fortunate.

It really isn't like that at all. The situation posted is a "what if" and I doubt it will trully happen. The situation is only described so pro-life people like yourself will gain more understanding about the situation.

I believe that if pro-life people are required to raise one child from the orphanage, then they will understand the situation of women who are not ready to take care of a child financially and emotionally and yet they are being forced to carry the pregnancy to term or become a parent\against her will

I agree to the first poster, if pro-lifers care so much about their so called "creed" then why not make this world a better place by adopting children, helping people, making other people's life better, donating financially etc.

I can't believe that people go out of their ways, so that they can prevent abortion and yet they don't seem to care about the "Exisiting life" around them suffering in their own eyes.

Yet, some of these pro-life conservatives supports the war. How ironic it is that they care so obsessed about unborn fetuses, yet they don't care about thousands of innocent "ALIVE" children suffering and dying because of the war.

In some third world countries, over population causes poverty and yet the majority of the pro-lifers don't seem to care that millions of children don't have food to eat and have the resource to stay alive, so a lot of them live miserable lives and die because of poverty.

I believe that if we sum it all up, pro choicers are even more pro-life than pro-lifers. Pro-choicers seems to have more understanding about the life around them that pro-lifers most of the time ignore, since they are so pre occupied and obsessed about saving blobs of cell in tissue in somebody else' womb.

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meblonde01

replied on August 5th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

haliparot wrote:

meblonde01 wrote:

Good Point Birch. Not all people would be good at being a parent.. Taking on a child just for the “cause" would not be a good idea for people that had no parenting skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt I was too old so I volunteer at the children's hospital and only once a month (it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so I helped him raise his son who was 2 when I met him and is 23 now. And in his last year of college. wooo hoooo.. Very Happy

I’m not trying to pat myself on the back ( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t mean you have to adopt to be active in children’s life that are less fortunate.

It really isn't like that at all. The situation posted is a "what if" and I doubt it will trully happen. The situation is only described so pro-life people like yourself will gain more understanding about the situation.

I believe that if pro-life people are required to raise one child from the orphanage, then they will understand the situation of women who are not ready to take care of a child financially and emotionally and yet they are being forced to carry the pregnancy to term or become a parent\against her will

I agree to the first poster, if pro-lifers care so much about their so called "creed" then why not make this world a better place by adopting children, helping people, making other people's life better, donating financially etc.

I can't believe that people go out of their ways, so that they can prevent abortion and yet they don't seem to care about the "Exisiting life" around them suffering in their own eyes.

Yet, some of these pro-life conservatives supports the war. How ironic it is that they care so obsessed about unborn fetuses, yet they don't care about thousands of innocent "ALIVE" children suffering and dying because of the war.

In some third world countries, over population causes poverty and yet the majority of the pro-lifers don't seem to care that millions of children don't have food to eat and have the resource to stay alive, so a lot of them live miserable lives and die because of poverty.

I believe that if we sum it all up, pro choicers are even more pro-life than pro-lifers. Pro-choicers seems to have more understanding about the life around them that pro-lifers most of the time ignore, since they are so pre occupied and obsessed about saving blobs of cell in tissue in somebody else' womb.

It isn’t really like that! Meaning? What I posted? or it is not what you feel? Or has nothing to do with what birch said?? (who I was responding to.) Clarify please.

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Dale123

replied on August 5th, 2007

Active User, very eHealthy

Getting Pregnant Without Even Thinking...

I think that you should have a licence to have sex. I think if you don't want children then use birthcontrol, condoms and foam! That would eliminate most of the babies that aren't wanted.

I am prochoice, but I don't think that I should have to adopt a child if I was pro life. I don't think I should have to, because when I am ready I will have my own children.

I wish people would stop opening there legs without thinking of the possibility of having a baby. Its soo stupid.. I have read so many posts of teens and adults getting pregnant.. THINKING.. OH NO.. NOW WHAT.. Must run off to the abortion clinic.. WHY not think OH NO I CAN'T have sex I could get pregnant..

I DO NOT think that IF I was pro life I should have to adopt one of someone elses baby, because they know they can have a baby and someone will take there responsibility.. Probably, wouldn't care much about the baby, and not take to good of care of it.

I think of pro choice when I hear that someone has used condoms foam and birthcontrol.. OR when someone has been raped. NOT when someone is too lazy to take there pills or use a condom. Is it really worth it?

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Dale123

replied on August 5th, 2007

Active User, very eHealthy

Birch wrote:

Interesting scenario.

Let me first say I would've fought like hell against the passage of such a law for various reasons, including but not limited to: 1. being forced to report your political views to the gov't and 2. the potential of forcing people to be parents agitates my prochoice philosophy.

Secondly, I am not convinced that just because someone is prolife means that they should be obligated to raise someone else's child. While I do know that prolife's viewpoints often align with political views that stunt the advancement of single mothers into higher economic brackets and therefore impede their children, among other things, I would not support a system that requires people of a certain political ideology to be financially bound to something that others of the opposing viewpoint would inot be.

While I think that prolife people *should* be more prolife than they are I do not think we should legislate morality for them.

I totally agree.. Why should we have to support someones stupidness?

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Dale123

replied on August 5th, 2007

Active User, very eHealthy

Carifairy wrote:

There are many kids in the foster system that NEED adoption.

They will PAY YOU to adopt them...

Unless all you want is a fresh from the vagina newborn...

Yeah, I think it's sick that you get 'paid' to adopt these children. IT'S sick, because some people adopt a whole bunch of these children for the money and treat them like caca. I think that a child shouldn't be forsale.

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Dale123

replied on August 5th, 2007

Active User, very eHealthy

Re: Getting Pregnant Without Even Thinking...

[quote="Dale123"]I think that you should have a licence to have sex. I think if you don't want children then use birthcontrol, condoms and foam! That would eliminate most of the babies that aren't wanted.

I am prochoice, but I don't think that I should have to adopt a child if I was pro life. I don't think I should have to, because when I am ready I will have my own children.

I wish people would stop opening there legs without thinking of the possibility of having a baby. Its soo stupid.. I have read so many posts of teens and adults getting pregnant.. THINKING.. OH NO.. NOW WHAT.. Must run off to the abortion clinic.. WHY not think OH NO I CAN'T have sex I could get pregnant..

I DO NOT think that IF I was pro life I should have to adopt one of someone elses baby, because they know they can have a baby and someone will take there responsibility.. Probably, wouldn't care much about the baby, and not take to good of care of whole it's inside of them. Why should I be obligated to adopt a crack baby or a baby with FAS

I think of pro choice when I hear that someone has used condoms foam and birthcontrol.. OR when someone has been raped. NOT when someone is too lazy to take there pills or use a condom. Is it really worth it?

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Dale123

replied on August 5th, 2007

Active User, very eHealthy

ALL men and woman should have to have an operation before they start puberty that makes it so that they can't have children. After the age of 18 when they are ready and if they want to have children they should have to take a parenting course. IF they PASS the course THEN by law they can have the operation reversed which inturn basically gives them the licence to have children. With this system in place we could eliminate unwanted`children, control the population, and slowly get rid of stupidity because the dumbasses of the world would never pass the parenting course.
*People have to get a licence to drive a car
*people have to have a licence to wed
*people have to have a licence to open a business
*people have to have a licence to serve liquor
*people have to have a licence to be a doctor...
* People have to have a licence to fish
*people have to be old enough to drink( can have a baby at 14 or younger)

ITS FUNNY SOO MANY MINOR THINGS..YOU NEEEEEED A LICENCE for and you can bring a life into the world at ANYTIME? AT everyones expence? Make sense?

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haliparot

replied on August 5th, 2007

Experienced User

Re: Getting Pregnant Without Even Thinking...

Dale123 wrote:

I wish people would stop opening there legs without thinking of the possibility of having a baby. Its soo stupid.. I have read so many posts of teens and adults getting pregnant.. THINKING.. OH NO.. NOW WHAT.. Must run off to the abortion clinic.. WHY not think OH NO I CAN'T have sex I could get pregnant..

What is someone doesn't want to have children for the rest of her life? What if I'm 20 years old and I don't want to have kids ever? Do you mean I shouldn't have sex forever and keeps my legs closed until I die?

You said that people who don't want to get pregnant should use birthcontrol, condom and foam. What do you mean by the word brith control? Clarify this because both condoms and foam are both birth control also? Do you mean birth control pills? What if somebody is sensitive to horomones (which a lot of people are) and can't use hormonal methods? What if somebody is senstive to condoms?

Using one or two effective birth control is enough...

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haliparot

replied on August 5th, 2007

Experienced User

[quote="Dale123"]ALL men and woman should have to have an operation before they start puberty that makes it so that they can't have children. After the age of 18 when they are ready and if they want to have children they should have to take a parenting course. IF they PASS the course THEN by law they can have the operation reversed which inturn basically gives them the licence to have children. With this system in place we could eliminate unwanted`children, control the population, and slowly get rid of stupidity because the dumbasses of the world would never pass the parenting course.
*People have to get a licence to drive a car
*people have to have a licence to wed
*people have to have a licence to open a business
*people have to have a licence to serve liquor
*people have to have a licence to be a doctor...
* People have to have a licence to fish
*people have to be old enough to drink( can have a baby at 14 or younger)

It's because deciding to have a family life is very personal decision. I know you know what you are saying because to me it sounds stupid. Having a parenting class wherein somebody "pass" or "fail" doesn't sound rational because being a good parent is impossible to measure and is very subjective since children are NOT the same, each parent needs to adjust to his/her children. Do you know the chaos this will cause the society if the government can dictate the people who can be a parent or not?

And what operation are you talking about in your first sentence? If you don't know already almost all states have rules that only people 18 and above are the ones who can only consent to have sex. However, monitoring minors whether they will have sex or not is completely impossible unless you want to put them in a guarded sanctuary.

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haliparot

replied on August 5th, 2007

Experienced User

meblonde01 wrote:

haliparot wrote:

meblonde01 wrote:

Good Point Birch. Not all people would be good at being a parent.. Taking on a child just for the “cause" would not be a good idea for people that had no parenting skills..
I often thought about adopting. But I felt I was too old so I volunteer at the children's hospital and only once a month (it is a 2 hr drive) I volunteer at an Orphanages. My husband was a single Dad so I helped him raise his son who was 2 when I met him and is 23 now. And in his last year of college. wooo hoooo.. Very Happy

I’m not trying to pat myself on the back ( well yeah, I am! I did a good job with my step-son) But being pro-life doesn’t mean you have to adopt to be active in children’s life that are less fortunate.

It really isn't like that at all. The situation posted is a "what if" and I doubt it will trully happen. The situation is only described so pro-life people like yourself will gain more understanding about the situation.

I believe that if pro-life people are required to raise one child from the orphanage, then they will understand the situation of women who are not ready to take care of a child financially and emotionally and yet they are being forced to carry the pregnancy to term or become a parent\against her will

I agree to the first poster, if pro-lifers care so much about their so called "creed" then why not make this world a better place by adopting children, helping people, making other people's life better, donating financially etc.

I can't believe that people go out of their ways, so that they can prevent abortion and yet they don't seem to care about the "Exisiting life" around them suffering in their own eyes.

Yet, some of these pro-life conservatives supports the war. How ironic it is that they care so obsessed about unborn fetuses, yet they don't care about thousands of innocent "ALIVE" children suffering and dying because of the war.

In some third world countries, over population causes poverty and yet the majority of the pro-lifers don't seem to care that millions of children don't have food to eat and have the resource to stay alive, so a lot of them live miserable lives and die because of poverty.

I believe that if we sum it all up, pro choicers are even more pro-life than pro-lifers. Pro-choicers seems to have more understanding about the life around them that pro-lifers most of the time ignore, since they are so pre occupied and obsessed about saving blobs of cell in tissue in somebody else' womb.

It isn’t really like that! Meaning? What I posted? or it is not what you feel? Or has nothing to do with what birch said?? (who I was responding to.) Clarify please.

um sorry..this is partly for you and for everybody..

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Dale123

replied on August 5th, 2007

Active User, very eHealthy

[quote="haliparot"]

Dale123 wrote:

ALL men and woman should have to have an operation before they start puberty that makes it so that they can't have children. After the age of 18 when they are ready and if they want to have children they should have to take a parenting course. IF they PASS the course THEN by law they can have the operation reversed which inturn basically gives them the licence to have children. With this system in place we could eliminate unwanted`children, control the population, and slowly get rid of stupidity because the dumbasses of the world would never pass the parenting course.
*People have to get a licence to drive a car
*people have to have a licence to wed
*people have to have a licence to open a business
*people have to have a licence to serve liquor
*people have to have a licence to be a doctor...
* People have to have a licence to fish
*people have to be old enough to drink( can have a baby at 14 or younger)

It's because deciding to have a family life is very personal decision. I know you know what you are saying because to me it sounds stupid. Having a parenting class wherein somebody "pass" or "fail" doesn't sound rational because being a good parent is impossible to measure and is very subjective since children are NOT the same, each parent needs to adjust to his/her children. Do you know the chaos this will cause the society if the government can dictate the people who can be a parent or not?

And what operation are you talking about in your first sentence? If you don't know already almost all states have rules that only people 18 and above are the ones who can only consent to have sex. However, monitoring minors whether they will have sex or not is completely impossible unless you want to put them in a guarded sanctuary.

Not a guarded sanctuary.. LOL if you read what I wrote. I wrote about getting an operation before they can have children..I think that it's great that it's been allowed to be a personal decision. I wished as a teen it could be a personal choice to drink at any age. Go fishing without paying. Get married without a licence.. HOWEVER, I couldn't because all of these things.. I needed a licence. NOW, I want to start my own business, but I have to have a licence. Starting my business is also a very personal choice. HOWEVER, its regulated.. Like a building permit too. When I built a deck in the summer an inspector came along and OKed it for my safety. So, it didn't have to be torn down. I think a childs life and safety should be as important. I really think 'people should be inspected before they have children.. This is much more important than many other licences.
THEN taking a course. It's funny NO two children are the same, but I do know what to expect with each age group, and its funny how similar they are. Babies: VERY SENSORY STAGE how to harvest that interest. TODDLERS IE Toddlers are very egocentric and think that everything is 'mine' toddlers are also known for biting. These are just little examples if you want I can go into detail from 0 to 12 years told. I will tell you every age stage and developmental milestone.

I educate people (usually older and younger more mature) on caring for there infants. They learn alot. When I say more mature. I mean mature enough to make the choice to have a baby also to find help from someone who knows about infancy through adolescence. There is so much to know. IE developmental psychology, cognitive development, educational studies, family studies, language and literacy, children with special needs, mile stones, communication and this is big.. I teach parents how to communicate with there infant. I teach them sign language. Most babies mouths aren't formed to say words however they can tell you what they want through sign. It helps. brain connections.. What types of foods help your child with development. What you can give your baby to eat at which age and what to look for with an allergic reaction. How to work with your child in all sorts of areas of need. ALSO on tempers! LOL thats a big one! Also, I teach people how to redirect there children using there words everyday. However, I grew up being hit when I was misunderstood.. IN all of my years of teaching I have never HIT or hurt a child in anyway this will include my own children.

Anyway, I am going to bed it's after midnight and my boyfriend is calling me! I am soo tired. I will edit in the morning.

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Jules

replied on August 6th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

Interesting idea...

I think an amendment should be made though that all those who claim to be pro-choice should be made to personally assist with an elective abortion every year. Preferably a later tem one so they can see the body parts. Bit fairer then Wink

Now I'm sure many on here will say, "Sure, I can do that!" but you can bet your backside that most people would not like to 'bloody their hands', both metaphorically and literally. It's just as wrong to enforce someone to assist in abortion as it is to enforce adoption on someone, regardless of their beliefs.

Besides, I thought pro-choice were about freedom of choice?

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milletics

replied on August 6th, 2007

Experienced User

such nonsense.
I dont do "what if's"
And who are you to speak for me.

What if people were responsible for their actions. And what if everyone had high morals like myself. And what if everyone valued ALL human life like me. What if.

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Birch

replied on August 6th, 2007

Extremely eHealthy

Jules wrote:

Besides, I thought pro-choice were about freedom of choice?

This seems to get tossed by the wayside quite frequently. I think certain prochoice people forget what that means-it's not just one side of the tracks.

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