Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posted: 11-02-07 13:50pm
DUH! We don't have an answer for it
because we can't understand it all. Hasn't
ANYBODY been reading?
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Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: Bliss,
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Posted: 11-02-07 13:53pm
godzgrl4evr
wrote:
Debate is all about
opinions, not facts. So, asking someone to
PROVE His existence isn't a
debate.
I'm not even sure how to respond...I think
you have the wrong idea of what a debate
is.
The existence of Jesus is debatable.
Since millions of people base their faith
on the existence of this man, I think it
is important to examine the facts,
especially if (and I don't know your views
so this isn't about you) these folks want
to make me live by their faith (in such
things as laws).
So, if you want the US to be a "Christian
country" I think it's important to
determine if this man named Christ even
existed at all.
In other words, if we all had to grow
beards because Papa Smurf said so,
wouldn't you want to know if Papa Smurf
even existed or would you just bow down
and do it? And then say, "you can't
understand eveything Papa Smurf said
because he said you wouldn't"...?
Last edited by Birch on 11-02-07 13:57pm; edited 1 time in total
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redeme
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 71 Location: australia
Posted: 11-02-07 13:57pm
how can you have faith in something you
dont understand? you contradict yourself
like every other person backing up
religion because instead of actually
taking on board my opinion you dodge
around it by saying we cant understand
this blah blah.. when we die well
understand blah blah.
if you have faith in something you dont
understand that means you dont really know
TRULY what it is or why you have faith in
it at all.
im not a preist or anything but most of
the senior members of the church ive met
pretty well think they understand god down
to a tee or so they think
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godzgrl4evr
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posted: 11-02-07 14:39pm
Quote:
tr>
I'm not even sure
how to respond...I think you have the
wrong idea of what a debate
is.
Uh, actually, I do understand what
debating is. I think it's you who doesn't
To consider something; deliberate.
To engage in argument by discussing
opposing points.
To engage in a formal discussion or
argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
Obsolete To fight or quarrel.
VERB:
tr.
To deliberate on; consider.
To dispute or argue about.
To discuss or argue (a question, for
example) formally.
Obsolete To fight or argue for or over.
NOUN:
A discussion involving opposing points; an
argument.
Deliberation; consideration: passed the
motion with little debate.
A formal contest of argumentation in which
two opposing teams defend and attack a
given proposition.
Syllogisms
Quote:
tr>
A discussion,
often heated, in which a difference of
opinion is expressed: altercation,
argument, bicker, clash, contention,
controversy, difficulty, disagreement,
dispute, fight, polemic, quarrel, run-in,
spat, squabble, tiff, word (used in
plural), wrangle. Informal: hassle,
rhubarb, tangle. See conflict
Quote:
tr>
how can you have
faith in something you dont understand?
you contradict yourself like every other
person backing up religion because instead
of actually taking on board my opinion you
dodge around it by saying we cant
understand this blah blah.. when we die
well understand blah blah.
if you have faith in something you dont
understand that means you dont really know
TRULY what it is or why you have faith in
it at all.
im not a preist or anything but most of
the senior members of the church ive met
pretty well think they understand god down
to a tee or so they think
As I said, I know for a fact because of
experiences. Just because I don't
understand something doesn't mean I can't
have faith in it. I don't understand all
of the English Language, but I know it is
there.
And I know what I have faith in. I live it
every day and in every way possible.
|
Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: Bliss,
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Posted: 11-03-07 09:55am
godzgrl4evr
wrote:
Quote:
tr>
I'm not even sure
how to respond...I think you have the
wrong idea of what a debate
is.
Uh, actually, I do understand what
debating is. I think it's you who doesn't
To consider something; deliberate.
To engage in argument by discussing
opposing points.
To engage in a formal discussion or
argument. See Synonyms at discuss.
Obsolete To fight or quarrel.
VERB:
tr.
To deliberate on; consider.
To dispute or argue about.
To discuss or argue (a question, for
example) formally.
Obsolete To fight or argue for or over.
NOUN:
A discussion involving opposing points; an
argument.
Deliberation; consideration: passed the
motion with little debate.
A formal contest of argumentation in which
two opposing teams defend and attack a
given proposition.
Syllogisms
Quote:
tr>
A discussion,
often heated, in which a difference of
opinion is expressed: altercation,
argument, bicker, clash, contention,
controversy, difficulty, disagreement,
dispute, fight, polemic, quarrel, run-in,
spat, squabble, tiff, word (used in
plural), wrangle. Informal: hassle,
rhubarb, tangle. See conflict
Quote:
tr>
how can you have
faith in something you dont understand?
you contradict yourself like every other
person backing up religion because instead
of actually taking on board my opinion you
dodge around it by saying we cant
understand this blah blah.. when we die
well understand blah blah.
if you have faith in something you dont
understand that means you dont really know
TRULY what it is or why you have faith in
it at all.
im not a preist or anything but most of
the senior members of the church ive met
pretty well think they understand god down
to a tee or so they think
As I said, I know for a fact because of
experiences. Just because I don't
understand something doesn't mean I can't
have faith in it. I don't understand all
of the English Language, but I know it is
there.
And I know what I have faith in. I live it
every day and in every way
possible.
I will be patient...I will be
patient....
The point of this thread is to debate if
Jesus the
man existed two thousand years ago.
Not if he exists to you in some
metaphysical way, or in faith, but that if
this dude walked around on the Earth at
all.
It is not a solid proven fact like the sky
is blue, the square root of sixteen is
four, or that China is a communist
country.
(By the way, your dictionary definition
did not back up your assertion.)
Have you got anything to say about that?
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Jincks013
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Joined: 18 Apr 2007 Posts: 1180 Location: ,
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Posted: 11-03-07 21:01pm
I have not seen a single post of evidence
that would lead me to conclude this jesus
actually existed. So to make my country
and "christian country" is to base it on
fiction not fact and also just happens to
run contrary to my constitution..
so it works like this:
Xtian: Jesus Exists!
Me: How do you know?
Xtian: God told me so!
Me: Oh? What does god sound like? Tenor?
Bass? Accented?
Xtian: He speaks to me in my heart!
Me: Thats nice. Still doesn't tell me what
he sound like though.
Xtian:
so you see why its a little difficult to
blindly accept the existance of a
hypothetical personality?
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Rodge
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Joined: 25 Feb 2006 Posts: 905 Location: , England, UK
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Posted: 11-03-07 21:51pm
I'm willing to accept the J-man existed,
just not that he was the son of God. He
was a radical activist who promoted love
and tolerance, and he helped a lot of
people, and then he was executed.
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young Girl
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Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 13932 Location: everythings better in, texas USA
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Posted: 11-03-07 21:54pm
i know lots of guys named jesus
none of them can talk to birds or heal
blind people or "walk on water" "which is
impossible btw"
sure jesus existed! alot of them do!!!
do i think jesus existed? yes i do
however he was NOT some magical wizzard
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godzgrl4evr
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posted: 11-03-07 21:57pm
The dictionary definition of a debate is
above. It does say opinions.
And, for records stating Jesus did indeed
exist, at least as a person
what do you think AD means? Duh! After the
Death. So, are you saying the entire
calendar and roman's and everything is
wrong? If so, what year is it?
Not to mention textbooks in school
mentioned a man named Jesus and described
him and everything.
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young Girl
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Posted: 11-03-07 21:59pm
okay hun
that link you posted is a CHRISTIAN
website
DUH a christian website would say he
exsisted
youre not getting through to the non
believers though
because guess what? i dont believe in this
"religon" youre apart of
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godzgrl4evr
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posted: 11-03-07 22:02pm
Did you read the website?
Read it, then reply...... I'm not trying
to get you to believe in Jesus Christ, but
I am giving you proof Jesus, as a person,
existed, which according to birch is the
point of this thread...
ACTUALLY READ IT!!!
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young Girl
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Posted: 11-03-07 22:04pm
yes he existed!
umm like i said i can name about 10 guys
name jesus tht I KNOW that EXIST!
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godzgrl4evr
New User, Becoming EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Nov 2007 Posts: 48 Location: Terre Haute, IN USA
Posted: 11-03-07 22:14pm
the_girlfriend
wrote:
yes he existed!
umm like i said i can name about 10 guys
name jesus tht I KNOW that
EXIST!
That isn't the point of this topic... You
know we are talking about The Jesus......
The one I believe in, not just some
guy.....
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young Girl
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Posted: 11-03-07 22:20pm
ahah but he was just some guy
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Rodge
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Posted: 11-03-07 22:49pm
Godzgrl: No. No, no, no. No. A.D. stands
for Anno Domini. Not only that, but 0 A.D.
is supposedly the year Jesus was
born, so what does that have to do
with 'After Death'? If we counted from his
death, it would be 1974 right now, and
nobody needs another go-round of the 70s.
The disco alone would doom us all.
Also, textbooks in school? You're
bypassing historical documentation and
going with modern schoolbooks? You
don't really think that's acceptable
evidence to bring to a debate, do you?
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Georgia59
Moderator
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 5557 Location: Along the Mississippi, USA
Thanks: 90
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Posted: 11-03-07 23:01pm
redeme
wrote:
godzgrl4evr
wrote:
<quote>Believing
someone is telling them to do things
inside of their head. Seeing things.
Hearing things. Hallucinations. Delusions
of grandeur.</quote>
First of all, these are based on opinions,
so the way you worded it, is wrong. You
THINK he was crazy for the things you
THINK describes schizophrenia, but it
isn't fact.
likewise.
its not that anybody THINKS it describes
schizophrenia, IT DOES DESCRIBE
SCHIZOPHRENIA. its so annoying trying to
discuss something with anyone who is
blinded by their religion. theres NEVER
been any proof he could do any miracles or
any kind other then the bible.. which
pretty much realisticly lumps him into the
group of people who believe they were a
prophet or the son of god, probably with
hundreds if not thousands of other people
claiming the same thing in those days.
not to mention that theres countless
religions with the same beliefs and
prophets and storys that outdate
christianity by thousands of years.
i like to think of it as if right now was
the time jesus was walking around chances
are hed probably be a homeless person,
sittin on a park bench trying to tell hes
a prophet to people who think hes the same
as every other crazy hobo they walk past
everyday.
you add up all the actual evidence that
suggests jesus was not even real or who he
said he was and you stack it up against
FAITH.. the 2 just do not weigh up. im not
trying to prove religion as a whole to be
false but definitly am saying that
christianty was a plagerised idea. jesus
most likely was quite the performer and
tricked alot of primitive minded gullible
people that were looking for something to
believe in as most people in those day
were (i say that only judged on todays
knowledge, i know the romans were
technogically pretty well advanced with
structures and such).
i was a firm believer of the christian
religion till i grew up and realised how
many holes are in the story when properly
examined, the countless lies spread by the
high members of the churchs and the fact
that ive never met a religous person who
would answer ALL of my questions and not
dribble nonsense to try to keep me
believing. as i said im not questioning
anyones faith just giving my
opinion
The point I was trying to make earlier is
because we have no idea what Jesus
actually thought about himself (there are
no documents that were written by him)
then there is no reason to think he is
schizophrenic. It's more likely that he
was just an exaggerated fable.
|
Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4144 Location: Bliss,
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Posted: 11-04-07 01:06am
godzgrl4evr
wrote:
The dictionary definition of
a debate is above. It does say opinions.
And, for records stating Jesus did indeed
exist, at least as a person
what do you think AD means? Duh! After the
Death. So, are you saying the entire
calendar and roman's and everything is
wrong? If so, what year is it?
Not to mention textbooks in school
mentioned a man named Jesus and described
him and
everything.
Oy vey...Okay, done being
patient.
If you have nothing substantial to add to
the debate, then kindly step aside and
allow the adults to continue the
conversation.
*duh*
Rodge
wrote:
Godzgrl: No. No, no, no. No.
A.D. stands for Anno Domini. Not only
that, but 0 A.D. is supposedly the year
Jesus was born, so what does that
have to do with 'After Death'? If we
counted from his death, it would be 1974
right now, and nobody needs another
go-round of the 70s. The disco alone would
doom us all.
Also, textbooks in school? You're
bypassing historical documentation and
going with modern schoolbooks? You
don't really think that's acceptable
evidence to bring to a debate, do
you?
You, me, a pub. Whaddya say?
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redeme
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 Posts: 71 Location: australia
Posted: 11-04-07 03:07am
georgia, i wasnt suggesting he was
actually schizophrenic i was saying that
by todays standard he would automatically
be classed with some sort of mental
illness based on his claims.
godzgrl, your not providing any real
evidence or even a valid point at all.
just because YOU have faith in something
does not provide nearly enough evidence to
counter-claim that jesus did not actually
exist. which is pretty much your whole
argument. the text books in school also
say he was a blonde haired, blue eyed guy
when he would obviously be of middle
eastern apperence. your problem is you
rely to much on your faith and you
completly close your eyes and ears to the
possibility of someone else making a good
point for the other side of the argument.
its exactly like every other christian or
religous person ive talked to or read
posts from, always answer a question with
another question because all you have is
faith in something you dont have the
slightest idea of or even understand to
begin with.
the_girlfriend, yes there probably was
alot of people back in those days called
jesus and still there still is today but
we are talking about the self proclaimed
"son of god" and if he existed at all not
some random guy. those random people
named jesus actually existed where as this
person did not in my opinion.
no offence meant to anyone just my 2 cents
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 11-04-07 04:32am
you guys still don't get the argument.
whether or not he existed historically has
nothing to do with whether his claims or
other people's claims of him being the
messiah are true or not. it's like in
2000 years if people argued about the
dalai lama and whether or not he really
existed as the man tenzin gyatso born on
whatever day in the 19th century. it
would be irrelevant whether you believed
he was a reincarnation of the bodhisattva
or not even though millions of people
believe him to be. (you can say, oh there
would be records, but 2000 years down the
line, how will anyone know what records
are authentic and which aren't?)
the fact is he is an important historical
figure and a charismatic leader who
happens to also be a religious figure. he
is respected whether people follow his
religious beliefs or not because his
philosophy is generally compassionate and
peaceful. why is it people who are not
christians can't look at jesus this way?
i think the non-religious people have a
little too much of a chip on their
shoulder when it comes to christianity in
particular because of the state of the
christian right in america today.
therefore there is more than a little bias
on either side of this argument and it
really shows.
there is a few points that are wrong in
this movie as ive done alot of the same
research myself but for the most part
explains religion well. it will show you
what the bible means with everything to do
with jesus, his 12 disciples, the birth
and resurrection of jesus. it explains its
all to do with astrology and also explains
why alot of religions have similar beliefs
and key points to there writings.
the next part to the movie is about the
9/11 conspiricy as well as i seen the
other thread posted on this forum. it goes
into detail about the planes, building 7,
the pentagon and most of all the secrecy
of the US government!
as i said a couple of the points are wrong
but they minor details. it doesnt try to
prove that religion is false but explains
how christianity is plagerised from
another religion at the very least. which
is a key point in itself because
christianity doesnt approve of any other
religions.
it really will give you some insight into
your life, thoughts and beliefs