Well as a believer in Christ; I would have
to say no I don't believe in aliens. There
would be no reason and his word doesnt
suggest it. His word says the stars were
created for light and direction at
night.(and our entire calender system).
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everyday_struggle
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Posts: 304
Posted: 08-02-07 12:05pm
milletics
wrote:
Well as a believer in
Christ; I would have to say no. There
would be no reason and his word doesnt
suggest it. His word says the stars were
created for light and direction at
night.(and our entire calender
system).
I believe in Christ as well, and i dont
think God created this universe for just
humans. The Bible is a book on the way we
should live our lives, not the answers to
the universe. I went to catholic school
for 8 years and never once did my teachers
say "the stars were created for light and
direction at night.(and our entire
calender system)". Maybe you should stop
taking the bible so literally and think
for yourself.
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Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3966 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 08-02-07 14:31pm
milletics
wrote:
Well as a believer in
Christ; I would have to say no. There
would be no reason and his word doesnt
suggest it. His word says the stars were
created for light and direction at
night.(and our entire calender
system).
How misled one is to base their entire
belief system on a man who did not exist.
I see no difference in worshipping this
religious belief and any cult, or the man
in the psychiatric hospital who claims to
have had visions of god and performed
miracles.
This is no different than the Greeks and
Romans who worshipped their deities yet
now humankind scoffs at such religions.
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 08-02-07 15:31pm
technically, Birch, Christ did exist,
there are records of him being a
historical figure and most historians
don't debate that. but anyway, i don't
know where in the bible it says anything
about the stars being created only for
direction and all that. it may say that
they provide direction somewhere in the
bible but i don't know of any scripture
that negates the possibility of alien
life. i think that is just another narrow
minded and self serving interpretation of
the bible that not all Christians
subscribe to. i, personally, don't
believe that the creator would waste all
of that space. i also know that creation
itself is a lot more tenacious and
abundant than some people give it credit
for. life is everywhere we just don't
always recognize it.
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Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3966 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 08-02-07 15:48pm
kaerbear
wrote:
technically, Birch, Christ
did exist, there are records of him being
a historical figure and most historians
don't debate that.
Where/what are these records?
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 08-02-07 16:44pm
Birch
wrote:
kaerbear
wrote:
technically, Birch, Christ
did exist, there are records of him being
a historical figure and most historians
don't debate that.
Where/what are these
records?
well, there were roman scholars that wrote
about christ and christians, like josephus
and tacitus and some others that i can't
remember. there are also cross references
in the talmud and islamic texts. most
scholars also accept the historicity of
gospel texts both in the bible and the
apocrypha (not in the bible) whether they
subscribe to the theology of them or not.
the bible is in fact considered a good
historical reference and historically
accurate in most cases where it is dealing
with events and not theology. i took a
course in university that was actually
called "historical jesus" and was taught
in that course that most scholars at this
time accept the fact that jesus was a real
historical figure and scholars that debate
the fact are now in the minority.
* just to add some other non-christian
references to christ, suetonius, pliny the
younger, thallus and of course, references
to a report pontius pilate made on the
crucifixion to tiberius (the emperor of
rome at that time.)
(*edited cuz i can't spell)
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Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3966 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 08-02-07 17:29pm
kaerbear
wrote:
Birch
wrote:
kaerbear
wrote:
technically, Birch, Christ
did exist, there are records of him being
a historical figure and most historians
don't debate that.
Where/what are these
records?
well, there were roman scholars that wrote
about christ and christians, like josephus
and tacitus and some others that i can't
remember. there are also cross references
in the talmud and islamic texts. most
scholars also accept the historicity of
gospel texts both in the bible and the
apocrypha (not in the bible) whether they
subscribe to the theology of them or not.
the bible is in fact considered a good
historical reference and historically
accurate in most cases where it is dealing
with events and not theology. i took a
course in university that was actually
called "historical jesus" and was taught
in that course that most scholars at this
time accept the fact that jesus was a real
historical figure and scholars that debate
the fact are now in the minority.
* just to add some other non-christian
references to christ, suetonius, pliny the
younger, thallus and of course, references
to a report pontius pilate made on the
crucifixion to tiberius (the emperor of
rome at that time.)
(*edited cuz i can't
spell)
Wellllllll....
I disagree.
While the Bible and other theological
resources may be accurate in regards to
historical information, that does not mean
that they are accurate in recounting the
events of the life of a man named Jesus
Christ. I believe the Bible is a great
piece of historical fiction.
I also do not think it's accurate and good
research to use the Bible to prove what
happened in the Bible, so I rule that out
as a resource.
Now, why were the apocrypha not included
in the Bible?
Because their authenticity was doubted.
Such as the Book of Judith, now believed
to be a parable; or the book of Tobit,
which is now regarded as a religious novel
with historical elements (otherwise known
as historical fiction). Or the Act of
Pilate (I think I got that right) in which
it was said that Jesus' virginal birth was
doubtful, as his parents fornicated. So
by the admission of the very people who
believe in Jesus the biblical apocrypha
were inaccurate, so I rule those out as a
resource in general. I of course admit I
don't know every detail about every book.
Now I also admit I know very little about
the Talmud and other religious texts and
their references to Jesus. I will look
into that.
Hoooweeeever...
Let us look at Pliny the Younger, whose
dates are what, 60-100 or something? He
did not report the existence of Christ,
but the existence of those who worshipped
Christ.
Thallus' work has been lost. There are no
primary resources on his writings.
The document by Pilate has also been lost.
It was referenced by Justin Martyr, who
lived a hundred years after Christ's
alleged life and interestingly enough is a
Christian apologist, so that is not using
gnostic resources and once again is ruled
out.
And on and on and on...
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Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3966 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 08-02-07 17:32pm
I'm sorry, I did not mean to hijack this
thread and it is a good thread; can
someone please break it off at the
appropriate point and retitle "Did Jesus
Exist" or something?
Thank ye!
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
Thanked:0
Posted: 08-02-07 18:34pm
Done and done
People who "know" me on these forums may
be surprised, but I do actually believe a
man named Jesus may have existed and did
spread the good words he spread. I don't
think he was the son of god or a savior or
anything like that; but he was a good man.
I believe the stories about him have been
greatly exaggerated in his honor and to
help spread his message further. I regret
he died because of his words.
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kaerbear
Most Diplomatic Poster
Joined: 10 Apr 2007 Posts: 1557 Location: ,
Posted: 08-02-07 18:58pm
so can we start one about mohammed and
buddha too? i don't know that this post
is going to get anywhere productive when
the only two logical arguments have
already been made and you either accept
them or you don't.
I am a christian and I do believe that
Christ Jesus was the son of God and that
he died on the cross to save us all. The
bible says that they only way to God is
through his son Jesus so if you do not
believe in him you have no community with
God himself as the only person on the
earth that was ever perfect and never gave
in to satan or temptation was Jesus even
in his younger years. The bible also says
he started teaching the word of God by the
time he Was twelve.
1. lets tackle the light thing: in Genesis
1 it says that God created the heavens and
the earth, water,animals, sea creatures,
birds, trees plants and so on. God created
day and night it states in Genesis 1:3-5
God said "let there be light" and there
was light. He separated the light from the
darkness. God called the light "day" and
the darkness "night" and that was the
first day. now for the stars Genesis
1:14-30 God said " let there be lights in
the expanse of the sky to separte the day
from the night, and let them serve as
signs to mark seasons and days and years,
and let them be lights in the expanse of
the sky to give light on the earth. God
made 2 great lights-the greater light to
govern the day and the lesser light to
govern the night. He also made the stars.
The bible states that God created the
earth in 7 days 6 days he worked and on
the 7th he rested. I wonder hey, our week
is 7 days to monday to friday being the
main days to get anything done then
saturday for shopping and other errands
and sunday most people rest they sleep
late, go out, have brunch, go to church,
and nost people get this day off. Before
anyone gets mad I said MOST.
There are copies of the orginal bible in
the britsh museum for all to see. Even the
Karon says that Jesus was alive and a real
person. MOst relegions believe christ died
and was buried and the rose again on the
third day. I mean do you not celiberate
easter? Christmas? These are christian
holidays. Christmas is the day Jesus was
born. Easter is when he died on the cross
for our sins.
If you need further proof I will get my
husband to explain this to you all as I am
not as good with words as he is and his
knowledge of the bible is much greater
than mine.
Taykare
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meblonde01
Supporter
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 2123 Location: ,
Thanks: 6
Thanked:2
Posted: 08-02-07 19:42pm
I believe Jesus did exist,, We never seen
Abraham Lincoln but history say he existed
and we beleive and there are records just
like Abraham Lincoln of the man called
Jesus. If you believe he is in God! "Son
of God" that is another thought. That
would come into the believing "faith
factor" But the man named Jesus, I think
did exist.
My personal thoughts are he must have been
a good man. Because of all the good witten
about him..
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young Girl
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 13932 Location: everythings better in, texas USA
Posted: 08-02-07 19:56pm
jesus
yes
god?
...not so much
i believe jesus existed
he was a nice person who obviously helped
alot of people and "claimed" to be the son
of this "god"
however ido not believe god existed/
created the earth or humans or any of
that
im sure jesus was a nice person and liked
to help people and all
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Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Posted: 08-02-07 20:17pm
I think its possible that he exists. I
don't believe in all of the religon
because thats not proven etc. Nor his his
birth I don't know.
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 08-02-07 20:36pm
I think Jesus Christ existed, but he
wasn't the son of God.
|
Dale123
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 01 Jul 2007 Posts: 697 Location: Barrie, On Canada
Posted: 08-02-07 20:42pm
Jude-Love
wrote:
I think Jesus Christ
existed, but he wasn't the son of
God.
Why do you think Jesus Christ? Perhaps it
was a fairy tale? Theres not a whole lot
of proof and it certainly doesn't sound
realistic. IF he really did exist I don't
think all of the stories were true. I
don't think he walked on water and that
sort of stuff, but it's possible.. I don't
know. I think it's like believing in the
easter bunny, santa claus, and the tooth
fairy and that just for kids.. Perhaps
they had to make something up for adults
to keep us in line. IE if you're bad santa
isn't coming to our house OR if your bad
when you're older you don't really care
about santa anymore. So, now the belief is
that you will go to hell.. LOL I don't
know.. I like debates I should stick to
this forum
Last edited by Dale123 on 08-02-07 20:47pm; edited 1 time in total
|
Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
Posted: 08-02-07 20:45pm
Dale123
wrote:
Jude-Love
wrote:
I think Jesus Christ
existed, but he wasn't the son of
God.
Why do you think Jesus Christ? Perhaps it
was a fairy tale? Theres not a whole lot
of proof and it certainly doesn't sound
realistic. IF he really did exist I don't
think all of the stories were true. I
don't think he walked on water and that
sort of stuff, but it's possible.. I don't
know.
I think he existed in the same sense John
Lennon did, like Ghandi did, like Mother
Theresa did. He was someone who did
important things-maybe the stories about
his "powers" are wildly exaggerated, but
to me he was just another person that
believed in peace, love, and empathy, and
he was punished for it.
I do not believe he was the son of God
because I think it is very silly to
believe virgins can get pregnant. I think
Mary and Joseph were getting it on like
every other young couple and left their
home so they could lie about the
conception.
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Birch
Moderator
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 3966 Location: Bliss,
Thanks: 129
Thanked:12
Posted: 08-02-07 20:47pm
There is no proof that Jesus existed. I
currently do not believe he even existed
as a historical figure, but I am not shut
out to it. He may have been an ordinary
man how had all this afixed to him, or the
world's first documented schizophrenic.
As a figure in astronomy, the "sun" "the
light of the world" who is resurrected
after three days (dec. 25th, after the sun
is stationary for three days after the
winter solstice), after traveling for one
year with twelve disciples (twelve zodiac
symbols) Jesus may have existed. Sure.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12985
Thanks: 3
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Posted: 08-02-07 20:52pm
Oooh, that's cool Birch Yes, I think that
it was either one man, or more likely, a
group of people over time who's ideas
slowly became collected into the concept
known as "Jesus Christ". The story that
has come out of this is honestly breath
taking. It's exciting, adventurous, and
full of great characters, morals, and
concepts we can all learn from a bit and
live by. I love it. Do I believe the
religion? No.
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Magical Logic
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 14 Mar 2006 Posts: 2248
Posted: 08-02-07 20:53pm
on wife swap i heard that jesus was a
carpenter that talked to much
