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What If the Coin Were Flipped

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sillyakchick

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What If the Coin Were Flipped
Posted: 07-30-07 17:05pm

I am going to use this as an example of being a devil's advocate. I am not endorsing the following subject matter, nor do I believe that what I am saying is the way things should be, but reading another post in the abortion debate forum made me think of it, and I just wanted to throw it out there.

Let's pretend we live in a very overpopulated world where abortion is commonplace and accepted. However, pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of resources, most women are required to abort unless they can meet the following guidelines:

-They have to have at the very least 1,000,000 in the bank set aside to pay for all costs of raising a child, including their college education
-They have to have been married for 10 years or more and undergo counseling regarding the impacts a child can make on a marriage.
-They have to be at least 30 years old
-They have to have finished college themselves and have at least 5 years of experience in a job
-They have to have a house with enough bedrooms to accomodate their one child
-Families are only allowed to have one child per household
-The conception of the child has to be intentional
-Both parents have to undergo health and genetic screening to ensure their current and future health status
-Both parent shave to undergo drug screening and personality tests


The above listed things are some of the reasons women choose to abort: not being married, being too young, not having finished college, not being financially stable, not being healthy enough to cntinue a pregnancy, not being able to stay off drugs long enough to ensure a healthy pregnancy, etc etc.

So, let's say you were pregnant under the circumstances described above and you failed to meet the guidelines and they told you that you HAD to abort because the state looks down on teen parents/unwed mothers/impoverished parents/drug addicts, etc. The state tells you that you must abort because it is the law. "But wait!" You say, "I want to be pregnant! I want to have a baby! I don't care about all those things, I want control over my own body! My own destiny! I don't care if you think it is morally wrong! I don't care if it's the law! I just want to have my baby!"

Think really hard about that situation.

Now realize that this is what it is like to contemplate abortion with people condemning you for your choices. Imagine having to prove yourself before a panel of judges in order to have an abortion/keep you baby.
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haliparot

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Posted: 07-30-07 19:48pm

this is a great situation wherein all the pro-life people should be in so that their understanding broadens when it comes to this issues.

People are granted freedom of choice and freedom to have rights when it comes to their own bodies. It is sad and frustrating that other people w/ different beliefs had to ruin our rights just because they don't agree with you. They want to gain control over your decisions and your body just because they think differently and they feel upset about your decisions in life.
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Jude-Love

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Posted: 07-30-07 21:28pm

This reminds me of the stickers and slogan: "Choose life: Your mom did!" or "At least your mother was pro-life...".

No. My mother chose to have me and think about if someone took her choice away.

NO ONE would get to hear me complain. Smile
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young Girl

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Posted: 07-30-07 21:42pm

thats why i dont see the point in arguing it with anybody

reguardless of what it is
wrong or right
who are we to judge? its the decition that the mother gets to make
no one should force her to feel bad

everyone has their opinions on the subject

same thing with smokeing pot
parenting
dateing
sex
everything

the choice and gift of life is givin so that we may make the choice to weather parenting is right for us or not
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Tylanas

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Posted: 07-30-07 22:44pm

Jude-Love wrote:
This reminds me of the stickers and slogan: "Choose life: Your mom did!" or "At least your mother was pro-life...".

No. My mother chose to have me and think about if someone took her choice away.

NO ONE would get to hear me complain. Smile


My mom actually aborted a child before she had me... if she hadn't, I wouldn't exist. My bumper sticker reads "Thank God my mom was Pro-Choice!"
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Jude-Love

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Posted: 07-30-07 22:55pm

Eiri wrote:
Jude-Love wrote:
This reminds me of the stickers and slogan: "Choose life: Your mom did!" or "At least your mother was pro-life...".

No. My mother chose to have me and think about if someone took her choice away.

NO ONE would get to hear me complain. Smile


My mom actually aborted a child before she had me... if she hadn't, I wouldn't exist. My bumper sticker reads "Thank God my mom was Pro-Choice!"


Same here. My mother could have died! My younger brothers wouldn't exist and neither would she.
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Jules

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Posted: 07-31-07 01:56am

The only difference in the scenario above is that no-one dies by the woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can see the difference between being forced to kill and choosing not to do so?
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milletics

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Posted: 07-31-07 07:03am

this is not the same.
In one scenario you are being forced to kill. In the other you are choosing to kill.
They are both wrong.
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sillyakchick

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Posted: 07-31-07 09:03am

Jules wrote:
The only difference in the scenario above is that no-one dies by the woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can see the difference between being forced to kill and choosing not to do so?


Yes but please read the caveat

"Let's pretend we live in a very overpopulated world where abortion is commonplace and accepted. However, pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of resources, most women are required to abort unless they can meet the following guidelines: "
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Anne123

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Posted: 07-31-07 09:05am

After reading that, all I could think of was.... Whoa.

I think some are missing the point.

The point is that forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy is just as bad as forcing a woman to terminate a pregnancy.

Both are serious violations of her human rights and her autonomy.
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Tylanas

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Posted: 07-31-07 10:01am

I agree, and I have in fact given my support and sympathy to several women on these forums who were forced to abort or who had family members pressuring them to abort. It is abhorrent to force pregnancy, and it is abhorrent to force abortion. That's what being pro-choice is about.
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Jules

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Posted: 07-31-07 11:05am

sillyakchick wrote:
Jules wrote:
The only difference in the scenario above is that no-one dies by the woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can see the difference between being forced to kill and choosing not to do so?


Yes but please read the caveat

"Let's pretend we live in a very overpopulated world where abortion is commonplace and accepted. However, pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of resources, most women are required to abort unless they can meet the following guidelines: "


As far as I can see my point still stands. The caveat does not change the fact that in one scenario you are being forced to kill.

Also, no-one has to 'prove' themselves before anybody to have an abortion in a country where it is legalised. As long as the women appear to know what they are doing and have the money then it's file 'em in! The only people that judge the woman are certain people she may choose to tell. Why should that bother her? If she doesn't feel bad for aborting then why should she care what others whisper behind her back? After all, I don't believe in God and I couldn't care less what a Christian may say about me. I would only care if, deep down, I thought I was wrong not to be a Christian.
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sillyakchick

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Posted: 07-31-07 11:09am

Jules wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:
Jules wrote:
The only difference in the scenario above is that no-one dies by the woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can see the difference between being forced to kill and choosing not to do so?


Yes but please read the caveat

"Let's pretend we live in a very overpopulated world where abortion is commonplace and accepted. However, pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of resources, most women are required to abort unless they can meet the following guidelines: "


As far as I can see my point still stands. The caveat does not change the fact that in one scenario you are being forced to kill.

Also, no-one has to 'prove' themselves before anybody to have an abortion in a country where it is legalised. As long as the women appear to know what they are doing and have the money then it's file 'em in! The only people that judge the woman are certain people she may choose to tell. Why should that bother her? If she doesn't feel bad for aborting then why should she care what others whisper behind her back? After all, I don't believe in God and I couldn't care less what a Christian may say about me. I would only care if, deep down, I thought I was wrong not to be a Christian.


In the US several states are beginning to ban late term abortion unless the health of the mother is in jeopardy. Thus, she would have to prove to a court that her life was in jeopardy in order to obtain a late term abortion.
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Jules

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Posted: 07-31-07 11:14am

sillyakchick wrote:
Jules wrote:
sillyakchick wrote:
Jules wrote:
The only difference in the scenario above is that no-one dies by the woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can see the difference between being forced to kill and choosing not to do so?


Yes but please read the caveat

"Let's pretend we live in a very overpopulated world where abortion is commonplace and accepted. However, pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of resources, most women are required to abort unless they can meet the following guidelines: "


As far as I can see my point still stands. The caveat does not change the fact that in one scenario you are being forced to kill.

Also, no-one has to 'prove' themselves before anybody to have an abortion in a country where it is legalised. As long as the women appear to know what they are doing and have the money then it's file 'em in! The only people that judge the woman are certain people she may choose to tell. Why should that bother her? If she doesn't feel bad for aborting then why should she care what others whisper behind her back? After all, I don't believe in God and I couldn't care less what a Christian may say about me. I would only care if, deep down, I thought I was wrong not to be a Christian.


In the US several states are beginning to ban late term abortion unless the health of the mother is in jeopardy. Thus, she would have to prove to a court that her life was in jeopardy in order to obtain a late term abortion.


That's fair enough. If a foetus is viable then why should it die just because the woman can't be bothered to continue her pregnancy? I'm aware, before I get mobbed, that most late term abortions are medically necessary anyway Wink .I'm in support of that. Also, it won't be the woman that has to prove it's medically necessarily but the doctors, surely?
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sillyakchick

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Posted: 07-31-07 12:00pm

I just don't think it should have to be proven at all.
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Birch

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Posted: 07-31-07 12:34pm

sillyakchick wrote:
I just don't think it should have to be proven at all.


Exactly; why does a woman have to prove to judges anything about her medical condition??

Leave the courts out of her medical decisions.
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Marfa2107

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Posted: 07-31-07 12:40pm

i don't understand her having to prove a medical difficulty with a pregnancy if a doctor had told her that it was a life or death situation...

i don't agree with the court having anything to do with anyones abortions..
its not their decision....well it shouldn't be anyway.
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Jules

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Posted: 07-31-07 12:58pm

sillyakchick wrote:
I just don't think it should have to be proven at all.


I understand why you feel like that and I confess I am mixed on the subject of late term abortion. I am against abortion in that I find it abhorrent but I realise it is not going to go away and banning it will not help. I think perhaps the best I can say is that perhaps abortions are between the woman and her doctor and no 'board' should be involved. If a doctor thinks an abortion is required for a woman's health then that should be sufficient. Also, if you're involving a board to assess whether a woman requires a late term abortion then that may delay the abortion and that can't be good for the foetus or the mother. Hmmm...
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Jules

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Posted: 07-31-07 12:59pm

I still stand by my first post in regard to the original scenario though Wink
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sillyakchick

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Posted: 07-31-07 13:06pm

Oh Jules, I agree. late term abortion is distatsteful to me as well. But I (no offense to any teen mothers or pregnant teens at all) also don't agree with teens having babies, and this is only because I know how difficult it is to raise children under the best of circumstances when everything was planned for. I cannot imagine being a teen and having to face being pregnant, having a baby and raising it. (Props to those of you who have and are doing so) I look at both situations and I can't decide which is more difficult. Therefore, I don't believe it is my place to decide. I would support a woman no matter what choice she makes.
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