sillyakchick
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Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2712
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What If the Coin Were Flipped
Posted: 07-30-07 17:05pm
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I am going to use this as an example of
being a devil's advocate. I am not
endorsing the following subject matter,
nor do I believe that what I am saying is
the way things should be, but reading
another post in the abortion debate forum
made me think of it, and I just wanted to
throw it out there.
Let's pretend we live in a very
overpopulated world where abortion is
commonplace and accepted. However,
pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of
resources, most women are required to
abort unless they can meet the following
guidelines:
-They have to have at the very least
1,000,000 in the bank set aside to pay for
all costs of raising a child, including
their college education
-They have to have been married for 10
years or more and undergo counseling
regarding the impacts a child can make on
a marriage.
-They have to be at least 30 years old
-They have to have finished college
themselves and have at least 5 years of
experience in a job
-They have to have a house with enough
bedrooms to accomodate their one child
-Families are only allowed to have one
child per household
-The conception of the child has to be
intentional
-Both parents have to undergo health and
genetic screening to ensure their current
and future health status
-Both parent shave to undergo drug
screening and personality tests
The above listed things are some of the
reasons women choose to abort: not being
married, being too young, not having
finished college, not being financially
stable, not being healthy enough to
cntinue a pregnancy, not being able to
stay off drugs long enough to ensure a
healthy pregnancy, etc etc.
So, let's say you were pregnant under the
circumstances described above and you
failed to meet the guidelines and they
told you that you HAD to abort because the
state looks down on teen parents/unwed
mothers/impoverished parents/drug addicts,
etc. The state tells you that you must
abort because it is the law. "But wait!"
You say, "I want to be pregnant! I want
to have a baby! I don't care about all
those things, I want control over my own
body! My own destiny! I don't care if
you think it is morally wrong! I don't
care if it's the law! I just want to have
my baby!"
Think really hard about that situation.
Now realize that this is what it is like
to contemplate abortion with people
condemning you for your choices. Imagine
having to prove yourself before a panel of
judges in order to have an abortion/keep
you baby.
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haliparot
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 209 Location: San Diego, CA United States
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Posted: 07-30-07 19:48pm
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this is a great situation wherein all the
pro-life people should be in so that their
understanding broadens when it comes to
this issues.
People are granted freedom of choice and
freedom to have rights when it comes to
their own bodies. It is sad and
frustrating that other people w/ different
beliefs had to ruin our rights just
because they don't agree with you. They
want to gain control over your decisions
and your body just because they think
differently and they feel upset about your
decisions in life.
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
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Posted: 07-30-07 21:28pm
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This reminds me of the stickers and
slogan: "Choose life: Your mom did!" or
"At least your mother was pro-life...".
No. My mother chose to have me and think
about if someone took her
choice away.
NO ONE would get to hear me complain.

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young Girl
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 21 Jun 2007 Posts: 13932 Location: everythings better in, texas USA
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Posted: 07-30-07 21:42pm
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thats why i dont see the point in arguing
it with anybody
reguardless of what it is
wrong or right
who are we to judge? its the decition that
the mother gets to make
no one should force her to feel bad
everyone has their opinions on the
subject
same thing with smokeing pot
parenting
dateing
sex
everything
the choice and gift of life is givin so
that we may make the choice to weather
parenting is right for us or not
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Posted: 07-30-07 22:44pm
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| Jude-Love
wrote: | This reminds me of the
stickers and slogan: "Choose life: Your
mom did!" or "At least your mother was
pro-life...".
No. My mother chose to have me and think
about if someone took her
choice away.
NO ONE would get to hear me complain.
 |
My mom actually aborted a child before she
had me... if she hadn't, I wouldn't exist.
My bumper sticker reads "Thank God my mom
was Pro-Choice!"
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Jude-Love
Active User, Really EHEALTHy
Joined: 17 Jun 2007 Posts: 727 Location: Williamstown, Kentucky USA
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Posted: 07-30-07 22:55pm
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| Eiri
wrote: | | Jude-Love
wrote: | This reminds me of the
stickers and slogan: "Choose life: Your
mom did!" or "At least your mother was
pro-life...".
No. My mother chose to have me and think
about if someone took her
choice away.
NO ONE would get to hear me complain.
 |
My mom actually aborted a child before she
had me... if she hadn't, I wouldn't exist.
My bumper sticker reads "Thank God my mom
was
Pro-Choice!" |
Same here. My mother could have died! My
younger brothers wouldn't exist and
neither would she.
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Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3840 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 91
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Posted: 07-31-07 01:56am
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The only difference in the scenario above
is that no-one dies by the woman remaining
pregnant. Surely you can see the
difference between being forced
to kill and choosing not to do so?
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milletics
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 204
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Posted: 07-31-07 07:03am
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this is not the same.
In one scenario you are being forced to
kill. In the other you are choosing to
kill.
They are both wrong.
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sillyakchick
Supporter
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2712
Thanks: 8
Thanked:1
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Posted: 07-31-07 09:03am
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| Jules
wrote: | | The only difference in the
scenario above is that no-one dies by the
woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can
see the difference between being forced
to kill and choosing not to do
so? |
Yes but please read the caveat
"Let's pretend we live in a very
overpopulated world where abortion is
commonplace and accepted. However,
pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of
resources, most women are required to
abort unless they can meet the following
guidelines: "
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Anne123
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Apr 2007 Posts: 290 Location: Canada
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Posted: 07-31-07 09:05am
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After reading that, all I could think of
was.... Whoa.
I think some are missing the point.
The point is that forcing a woman to
continue a pregnancy is just as bad as
forcing a woman to terminate a pregnancy.
Both are serious violations of her human
rights and her autonomy.
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Tylanas
Especially EHEALTHy
Joined: 13 Jul 2005 Posts: 12984
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Posted: 07-31-07 10:01am
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I agree, and I have in fact given my
support and sympathy to several women on
these forums who were forced to abort or
who had family members pressuring them to
abort. It is abhorrent to force pregnancy,
and it is abhorrent to force abortion.
That's what being pro-choice is about.
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Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3840 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 91
Thanked:77
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Posted: 07-31-07 11:05am
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| sillyakchick
wrote: | | Jules
wrote: | | The only difference in the
scenario above is that no-one dies by the
woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can
see the difference between being forced
to kill and choosing not to do
so? |
Yes but please read the caveat
"Let's pretend we live in a very
overpopulated world where abortion is
commonplace and accepted. However,
pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of
resources, most women are required to
abort unless they can meet the following
guidelines: " |
As far as I can see my point still stands.
The caveat does not change the fact that
in one scenario you are being forced
to kill.
Also, no-one has to 'prove' themselves
before anybody to have an abortion in a
country where it is legalised. As long as
the women appear to know what they are
doing and have the money then it's file
'em in! The only people that judge the
woman are certain people she may choose to
tell. Why should that bother her? If she
doesn't feel bad for aborting then why
should she care what others whisper behind
her back? After all, I don't believe in
God and I couldn't care less what a
Christian may say about me. I would only
care if, deep down, I thought I was wrong
not to be a Christian.
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sillyakchick
Supporter
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2712
Thanks: 8
Thanked:1
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Posted: 07-31-07 11:09am
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| Jules
wrote: | | sillyakchick
wrote: | | Jules
wrote: | | The only difference in the
scenario above is that no-one dies by the
woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can
see the difference between being forced
to kill and choosing not to do
so? |
Yes but please read the caveat
"Let's pretend we live in a very
overpopulated world where abortion is
commonplace and accepted. However,
pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of
resources, most women are required to
abort unless they can meet the following
guidelines: " |
As far as I can see my point still stands.
The caveat does not change the fact that
in one scenario you are being forced
to kill.
Also, no-one has to 'prove' themselves
before anybody to have an abortion in a
country where it is legalised. As long as
the women appear to know what they are
doing and have the money then it's file
'em in! The only people that judge the
woman are certain people she may choose to
tell. Why should that bother her? If she
doesn't feel bad for aborting then why
should she care what others whisper behind
her back? After all, I don't believe in
God and I couldn't care less what a
Christian may say about me. I would only
care if, deep down, I thought I was wrong
not to be a
Christian. |
In the US several states are beginning to
ban late term abortion unless the health
of the mother is in jeopardy. Thus, she
would have to prove to a court that her
life was in jeopardy in order to obtain a
late term abortion.
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Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3840 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 91
Thanked:77
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Posted: 07-31-07 11:14am
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| sillyakchick
wrote: | | Jules
wrote: | | sillyakchick
wrote: | | Jules
wrote: | | The only difference in the
scenario above is that no-one dies by the
woman remaining pregnant. Surely you can
see the difference between being forced
to kill and choosing not to do
so? |
Yes but please read the caveat
"Let's pretend we live in a very
overpopulated world where abortion is
commonplace and accepted. However,
pregnancy is not. Due to the scarcity of
resources, most women are required to
abort unless they can meet the following
guidelines: " |
As far as I can see my point still stands.
The caveat does not change the fact that
in one scenario you are being forced
to kill.
Also, no-one has to 'prove' themselves
before anybody to have an abortion in a
country where it is legalised. As long as
the women appear to know what they are
doing and have the money then it's file
'em in! The only people that judge the
woman are certain people she may choose to
tell. Why should that bother her? If she
doesn't feel bad for aborting then why
should she care what others whisper behind
her back? After all, I don't believe in
God and I couldn't care less what a
Christian may say about me. I would only
care if, deep down, I thought I was wrong
not to be a
Christian. |
In the US several states are beginning to
ban late term abortion unless the health
of the mother is in jeopardy. Thus, she
would have to prove to a court that her
life was in jeopardy in order to obtain a
late term
abortion. |
That's fair enough. If a foetus is viable
then why should it die just because the
woman can't be bothered to continue her
pregnancy? I'm aware, before I get
mobbed, that most late term abortions are
medically necessary anyway .I'm in support of
that. Also, it won't be the woman that
has to prove it's medically necessarily
but the doctors, surely?
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sillyakchick
Supporter
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2712
Thanks: 8
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Posted: 07-31-07 12:00pm
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I just don't think it should have to be
proven at all.
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Birch
Supporter
Joined: 07 Nov 2005 Posts: 4153 Location: Bliss,
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Posted: 07-31-07 12:34pm
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| sillyakchick
wrote: | | I just don't think it should
have to be proven at
all. |
Exactly; why does a woman have to prove to
judges anything about her
medical condition??
Leave the courts out of her medical
decisions.
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Marfa2107
Extremely EHEALTHy
Joined: 11 Jul 2007 Posts: 1552 Location: Galena, Kansas United States
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Posted: 07-31-07 12:40pm
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i don't understand her having to prove a
medical difficulty with a pregnancy if a
doctor had told her that it was a life or
death situation...
i don't agree with the court having
anything to do with anyones abortions..
its not their decision....well it
shouldn't be anyway.
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Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3840 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 91
Thanked:77
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Posted: 07-31-07 12:58pm
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| sillyakchick
wrote: | | I just don't think it should
have to be proven at
all. |
I understand why you feel like that and I
confess I am mixed on the subject of late
term abortion. I am against abortion in
that I find it abhorrent but I realise it
is not going to go away and banning it
will not help. I think perhaps the best I
can say is that perhaps abortions are
between the woman and her doctor and no
'board' should be involved. If a doctor
thinks an abortion is required for a
woman's health then that should be
sufficient. Also, if you're involving a
board to assess whether a woman requires a
late term abortion then that may delay the
abortion and that can't be good for the
foetus or the mother. Hmmm...
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Jules
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2006 Posts: 3840 Location: Merrie Englande, UK
Thanks: 91
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Posted: 07-31-07 12:59pm
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I still stand by my first post in regard
to the original scenario though 
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sillyakchick
Supporter
Joined: 12 Apr 2007 Posts: 2712
Thanks: 8
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Posted: 07-31-07 13:06pm
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Oh Jules, I agree. late term abortion is
distatsteful to me as well. But I (no
offense to any teen mothers or pregnant
teens at all) also don't agree with teens
having babies, and this is only because I
know how difficult it is to raise children
under the best of circumstances when
everything was planned for. I cannot
imagine being a teen and having to face
being pregnant, having a baby and raising
it. (Props to those of you who have and
are doing so) I look at both situations
and I can't decide which is more
difficult. Therefore, I don't believe it
is my place to decide. I would support a
woman no matter what choice she makes.
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