General Debate Forum - Evolution Thread page 7

Birch on August 10th, 2007

Moderator

milletics wrote:

Birch wrote:

milletics wrote:

Simply put evolution is impossible. I wish the athiest crowd would come up with a new theory that makes more sense and wasnt proved wrong.

The theory basically says that over long periods of time through mutations that life evolved into different species from a single organism or organisms.
This is impossible because never ever has there been a mutation that benefitted an organism. ET requires that mutations over time "added" information to actually change or advance a species. Again; the FACT says that mutations dont add, but actually take away information from the species. This is fact. Yet for evolution to occur information would have to be added to advance the species.
Evolution IS proven wrong but the athiest crowd has nothing else to justify a Godless world.

Atheism does not go hand in hand with believing in evolution.

I'm not real keen on evolution, but I'm not an atheist. I mean, look at you; you're proof that survival of the fittest is a washed up theory. Wink

That didnt answer anything. Throwing insults only reinforces the fact you know little of the subject Wink

Good Christ, I agree with you on evolution! Does that mean I know little of the subject? Laughing

Quit lumping people together into neat little groups like lines of cocaine.

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PsychMajor replied on August 10th, 2007

New User, Becoming EHEALTHy

Re: Evolution Thread

Secondly, there were many many species of sub-humans evolving with us. Yes, there were many similar species of "human" evolving together, to answer your question. But not all monkeys had a need to develop bipedalism. Eventually, natural selection finally weeded homo sapeins out as the strongest species. All of the other species died out.[/quote]

Died out? are we sure, do we have proof that they "just died out"? to be honest i think Homo sapien killed them off, since the human race seems to be better or destroying a species than keeping it around.

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Tylanas replied on August 10th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

Re: Evolution Thread

PsychMajor wrote:

Secondly, there were many many species of sub-humans evolving with us. Yes, there were many similar species of "human" evolving together, to answer your question. But not all monkeys had a need to develop bipedalism. Eventually, natural selection finally weeded homo sapeins out as the strongest species. All of the other species died out.

Died out? are we sure, do we have proof that they "just died out"? to be honest i think homo sapien killed them off, since the human race seems to be better or destroying a species than keeping it around.[/quote]

Careful with homo sapien, the word filter doesn't like homo and changes it to homo, lol.

Anyway, the proof is in the fossils. They existed until a certain time, and then ceased to exist. They went extinct. Extinction is very common. It is not feasable to assume that homo sapiens killed off every other hominid, because back then, there were not very many homo sapiens on the planet and certainly no enough to slaughter another species.

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milletics replied on August 13th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

Eiri wrote:

milletics wrote:

Simply put evolution is impossible. I wish the athiest crowd would come up with a new theory that makes more sense and wasnt proved wrong.

I'm not atheist, and never have been. Yet, I am a proponent of evolution as it IS proven.

Have you ever met a virus? Do you know why AIDS is so hard to combat? No, it's not because God is punishing those naught gays and their dirty anal sex. It's because the AIDS virus MUTATES every generation it reproduces.

Evolution makes SO much sense, it frightens people like you. The proof is all around us. Even the gestational stages of a human in the womb reflect our evolutionary journey.

I don't see how evolution is at odds with Christianity at all, aside from the fact that it means you have to interpret Genesis a little less literally.

People, don't listen to milletics. I think s/he's the person that also doesn't believe the Earth is actually as old as it really is, despite overwhelming proof of that, too.

You are wrong on all counts.
There is NO proof. Thats why its called a THEORY. And the theory is ALL about interpretation. Scientists werent around 600 trillion zillion billion years ago to see it. Its all interpreted. Some interpret it to thousands of years(makes more sense) like me. Some to quadzillions of years.
Ex. the law of gravity is truth. It can be tested. It is fact. Evolution is theory. It cant be tested nor has it been proven a fact. You may choose to believe in man. I believe in what God tells me: On the ____day God created......(and in case you dont know how long a day is it tells us how long each day was: "and the morning and the evening was the ____day")
Read it.

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Tylanas replied on August 13th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

I'm still mostly ignoring milletics every time s/he talks about the bible or tries to force it upon me. The funny thing is of course, that I have read it, and I've actually studied it. Studied in the academic sense, not the religious sense. I realized from a young age how ridiculous the whole thing was. Perhaps you find it sad, a ten year old girl who didn't believe in magic. Maybe God shouldn't have killed my puppy.

Lol. That's certainly not the only reason I'm not Christian, but it was one of the turning points. I used to pray to God every single night. Say hello, chat a bit, talk about my day, and then go to bed. After my puppy died, I screamed at God in my nightly talks. I told him I hated him, and that he was the sickest person in the world. Lightning didn't come down. I lived. Hm...

I was still christian for many years. I even "gave myself to Jesus" again about twice. But something in my head always pulled me back to the world of logic and sensibilities again. I couldn't just "believe".

I would personally wear a rosary around all the time if I could find a good one. I think Jesus was super. Can't say wrong about a guy who was willing to die for people - even if he is made up. I dunno. I don't believe any of the magic tricks from the Bible; my brain hits me when I try to. Logic just makes too much sense. But I'm not christian, so if I wore a rosary, I'd also like to wear something to represent buddhism too, like a lotus or something. Maybe I should design a crucifix (it's important that it has a dying jesus on it) that instead of that circle behind it, has a lotus flower... that would be pretty.

All right, I've rambled and if you've made it the whole way through, I'm sorry for putting you through it lol. A summary: I am not christian. If I could found a philosophy around Jesus the dude and Buddha the dude, I totally would. Don't know what I'd call it... Peaceism or something. And the lotus-crucifix is the symbol lol.

Hm, my rant started off all angry, but she got me talking about my philosophies and that always makes me groove. Buddha, Jesus, you guys had the right key.

Come on guys, can't we all just get along?

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Birch replied on August 13th, 2007

Moderator

milletics wrote:

You are wrong on all counts.
There is NO proof. Thats why its called a THEORY. And the theory is ALL about interpretation. Scientists werent around 600 trillion zillion billion years ago to see it. Its all interpreted. Some interpret it to thousands of years(makes more sense) like me. Some to quadzillions of years.
Ex. the law of gravity is truth. It can be tested. It is fact. Evolution is theory. It cant be tested nor has it been proven a fact. You may choose to believe in man. I believe in what God tells me: On the ____day God created......(and in case you dont know how long a day is it tells us how long each day was: "and the morning and the evening was the ____day")
Read it.

Although I agree with you on the evolution theory concept, I sure wish you'd explain why you believe the Bible is true.

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milletics replied on August 14th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

Birch wrote:

milletics wrote:

You are wrong on all counts.
There is NO proof. Thats why its called a THEORY. And the theory is ALL about interpretation. Scientists werent around 600 trillion zillion billion years ago to see it. Its all interpreted. Some interpret it to thousands of years(makes more sense) like me. Some to quadzillions of years.
Ex. the law of gravity is truth. It can be tested. It is fact. Evolution is theory. It cant be tested nor has it been proven a fact. You may choose to believe in man. I believe in what God tells me: On the ____day God created......(and in case you dont know how long a day is it tells us how long each day was: "and the morning and the evening was the ____day")
Read it.

Although I agree with you on the evolution theory concept, I sure wish you'd explain why you believe the Bible is true.

Because it hasnt been proven wrong. There is even evidence for a global flood. Places in the bible have been proven to have existed.

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Birch replied on August 14th, 2007

Moderator

milletics wrote:

Birch wrote:

milletics wrote:

You are wrong on all counts.
There is NO proof. Thats why its called a THEORY. And the theory is ALL about interpretation. Scientists werent around 600 trillion zillion billion years ago to see it. Its all interpreted. Some interpret it to thousands of years(makes more sense) like me. Some to quadzillions of years.
Ex. the law of gravity is truth. It can be tested. It is fact. Evolution is theory. It cant be tested nor has it been proven a fact. You may choose to believe in man. I believe in what God tells me: On the ____day God created......(and in case you dont know how long a day is it tells us how long each day was: "and the morning and the evening was the ____day")
Read it.

Although I agree with you on the evolution theory concept, I sure wish you'd explain why you believe the Bible is true.

Because it hasnt been proven wrong. There is even evidence for a global flood. Places in the bible have been proven to have existed.

Well, okay, but I mean more like the divinity of it, the holiness of it, that kind of stuff. I have no doubt Jerusalem existed, but I want to know why you believe the literal truth of the Bible. For example, the six days creation and the Red Sea parting (I'm assuming you believe that-sorry if I'm wrong) all the fantastical elements of the Bible.

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Tylanas replied on August 14th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

milletics wrote:

Because it hasnt been proven wrong. There is even evidence for a global flood. Places in the bible have been proven to have existed.

That's true, but think about where the proof for the floods came from...

It came from science.

Secondly, several other ancient texts, religious and non, have mentioned a great flood around the same time that the bible mentions one. So all of this referencing led to an archaeological study that proved indeed that the middle east and other low-lying coastal areas did indeed flood. Did the entire world flood? No. Would ancient peoples have had to leave the middle eastern area? Yes; and if they considered that to be "the world" (as ancient people often did consider their own little area to be the whole world) then it's pretty obvious why in the ancient texts, the "whole world" flooded, even though the scientific proof shows it didn't.

So, did the whole world/planet flood? No. Did the "world" as the ancient bible-writers knew it flood? Yes. But if the great-flood story isn't quite as accurate as the bible states it is, then that opens the "flood gates" for questioning, if I can make a pun Wink

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Tylanas replied on August 14th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

Birch wrote:

milletics wrote:

Birch wrote:

Although I agree with you on the evolution theory concept, I sure wish you'd explain why you believe the Bible is true.

Because it hasnt been proven wrong. There is even evidence for a global flood. Places in the bible have been proven to have existed.

Well, okay, but I mean more like the divinity of it, the holiness of it, that kind of stuff. I have no doubt Jerusalem existed, but I want to know why you believe the literal truth of the Bible. For example, the six days creation and the Red Sea parting (I'm assuming you believe that-sorry if I'm wrong) all the fantastical elements of the Bible.

The red sea parting was actually a provable event, to due with a dry season (which caused all of the plagues) and a very low tide, which explains the shortness of the event and why the Pharaoh lost his soldiers.

As for six-days creation, if you pretend that one "day" is actually some other kind of measure of time, you can get it to work.

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Birch replied on August 14th, 2007

Moderator

Eiri wrote:

Birch wrote:

milletics wrote:

Birch wrote:

Although I agree with you on the evolution theory concept, I sure wish you'd explain why you believe the Bible is true.

Because it hasnt been proven wrong. There is even evidence for a global flood. Places in the bible have been proven to have existed.

Well, okay, but I mean more like the divinity of it, the holiness of it, that kind of stuff. I have no doubt Jerusalem existed, but I want to know why you believe the literal truth of the Bible. For example, the six days creation and the Red Sea parting (I'm assuming you believe that-sorry if I'm wrong) all the fantastical elements of the Bible.

The red sea parting was actually a provable event, to due with a dry season (which caused all of the plagues) and a very low tide, which explains the shortness of the event and why the Pharaoh lost his soldiers.

As for six-days creation, if you pretend that one "day" is actually some other kind of measure of time, you can get it to work.

Milletics is a Creationist who believes in the literal truth of the bible. The dry season didn't part the Red Sea; Moses did; and literally, six days meant six days. I just wonder why milletics literally believes in it all.

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Tylanas replied on August 14th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

Haha XD Oh well I tried eh?

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milletics replied on August 15th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

Because I believe that the bible is God's infalliable word. Written by man, but completely inspired by God as it states in the bible. And God says there was a flood that covered the whole world; I believe it. We cant say it didnt. We werent around to prove it. We also cant say that dino's and humans didnt walk together. We werent around either.
If one believes that the bible is God's word then one has to believe it all...not parts of it, for if we say this or that didnt happen as it is stated, then you must also doubt the God-man Jesus.
Events in the bible like the plaques(water to blood, etc) and the miracles of Jesus; I believe. I have seen miracles in my church.

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Rodge replied on August 15th, 2007

Active User, Really EHEALTHy

The Flintstones is trufax, everyone. Jesus says so. Wink

(For the record, I think the J-man probably existed, but he was just an awesome political activist guy. Not the son of God.)

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Birch replied on August 15th, 2007

Moderator

milletics wrote:

Because I believe that the bible is God's infalliable word. Written by man, but completely inspired by God as it states in the bible. And God says there was a flood that covered the whole world; I believe it. We cant say it didnt. We werent around to prove it. We also cant say that dino's and humans didnt walk together. We werent around either.
If one believes that the bible is God's word then one has to believe it all...not parts of it, for if we say this or that didnt happen as it is stated, then you must also doubt the God-man Jesus.
Events in the bible like the plaques(water to blood, etc) and the miracles of Jesus; I believe. I have seen miracles in my church.

Okay. Thanks for answering. And I like your consistentcy in regards to picking and choosing which parts to believe, etc.

I don't quite understand a couple things though-

When you say "we weren't around to prove it" do you mean contemporary humans, or humans of the past, or who is "we" specifically.

And I have to ask, do you know what circular reasoning is?

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milletics replied on August 15th, 2007

Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy

Birch wrote:

milletics wrote:

Because I believe that the bible is God's infalliable word. Written by man, but completely inspired by God as it states in the bible. And God says there was a flood that covered the whole world; I believe it. We cant say it didnt. We werent around to prove it. We also cant say that dino's and humans didnt walk together. We werent around either.
If one believes that the bible is God's word then one has to believe it all...not parts of it, for if we say this or that didnt happen as it is stated, then you must also doubt the God-man Jesus.
Events in the bible like the plaques(water to blood, etc) and the miracles of Jesus; I believe. I have seen miracles in my church.

Okay. Thanks for answering. And I like your consistentcy in regards to picking and choosing which parts to believe, etc.

I don't quite understand a couple things though-

When you say "we weren't around to prove it" do you mean contemporary humans, or humans of the past, or who is "we" specifically.

And I have to ask, do you know what circular reasoning is?

Contemporary. How do I have circular reasoning?

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Tylanas replied on August 15th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

Circular reasoning:

"Why do you believe God exists?"

~Because the Bible says so.~

"Why is the Bible a reputable source?"

~Because the Bible is God's word.~

That is circular logic. It doesn't prove anything. It's like opening the dictionary to a word you don't know - let's say "Shiglur", a made up word - and the definition says "Shiglur: see Amounar." You go to Amounar... and it says "Amounar: see Shiglur." You haven't learned a darn thing, except that apparently, Amounar and Shiglur are synonyms. But their meaning is absent.

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Birch replied on August 15th, 2007

Moderator

milletics wrote:

Birch wrote:

milletics wrote:

Because I believe that the bible is God's infalliable word. Written by man, but completely inspired by God as it states in the bible. And God says there was a flood that covered the whole world; I believe it. We cant say it didnt. We werent around to prove it. We also cant say that dino's and humans didnt walk together. We werent around either.
If one believes that the bible is God's word then one has to believe it all...not parts of it, for if we say this or that didnt happen as it is stated, then you must also doubt the God-man Jesus.
Events in the bible like the plaques(water to blood, etc) and the miracles of Jesus; I believe. I have seen miracles in my church.

Okay. Thanks for answering. And I like your consistentcy in regards to picking and choosing which parts to believe, etc.

I don't quite understand a couple things though-

When you say "we weren't around to prove it" do you mean contemporary humans, or humans of the past, or who is "we" specifically.

And I have to ask, do you know what circular reasoning is?

Contemporary. How do I have circular reasoning?

I'm going to assume for contemporary you mean "modern humans" -is that right?

I'm stumped. If there were contemporary humans around with dinosaurs, why didn't they record their interactions with them in any way?

"We weren't around to know" if dinos and humans co-existed, you said, yet if we weren't around to know...then, well, we weren't around, and it's infallible to assume by your own logic we didn't co-exist.

And if you mean a more contemporary human, like this lifetime, well, "we weren't around" to know that the Biblical accounts were true either. So I'm confused. It seems like you are giving the Bible special allowances.

Just curious, are you open to the idea that unicorns, the Loch Ness monster, dragons, etc. existed? It seems like if someone was going to have a profound belief in something because "it hasn't been proven false" then you would have to be open to the idea of, well, just about anything.

Circular reasoning is essentially believing something because it says it's true. The Bible says "God wrote this and it's true" so you believe it. That just seems irresponsible to your psyche. Men put the NT together hundreds of years after Christ's supposed lifetime. Were they divinely inspired by which texts to leave in and which to leave out?

These seems to open up a huge can of worms in which you can easily stamp on the subscription of "divinely inspired" to everything that appeals to you.

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nightangel73 replied on August 15th, 2007

Extremely EHEALTHy

Eiri wrote:

Circular reasoning:

"Why do you believe God exists?"

~Because the Bible says so.~

"Why is the Bible a reputable source?"

~Because the Bible is God's word.~

That is circular logic. It doesn't prove anything. It's like opening the dictionary to a word you don't know - let's say "Shiglur", a made up word - and the definition says "Shiglur: see Amounar." You go to Amounar... and it says "Amounar: see Shiglur." You haven't learned a darn thing, except that apparently, Amounar and Shiglur are synonyms. But their meaning is absent.

I don't beleive in god just because the bible says so. I just know there is a god, almighty and there is evil. I can feel it. The bible just happened to put it together in words about god. And I believe whichever the names of the god for hindus is the same god of mine for example. We all refer to the same god just in different names.

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Tylanas replied on August 15th, 2007

Especially EHEALTHy

The Hindus have many gods, they are polytheistic. Muslims are monotheistic and call their god (the same as the christian and jewish god) "Allah".

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