My point is that in trying to have a child, I'd be putting myself in mortal danger. What's the point of your post? I was obviously replying to Ewing. You're obviously trying to start something.

I think that is great for you, if that makes you happy and want to live your life that way. But the way you are writing is that you believe this is the right, correct and only way that everyone should behave. Is that so, or do you accept that if someone is not of the same view then they have the right to behave a different way?

Because I believe that sex is not for procreation. Getting pregnant is an unfortunate side effect of bonking for fun. I don't see any point in debating whether the last 30 years I have spent having sex for fun is "legitimate" in you opinion, as informed by a god that I think is less believable than the flying spaghetti monster.

No, actually, your post looked completely out of context. Now I know.

Hi Ewing, welcome to the forum, and I hope you stick around!



I'm not sure I understand. Abusing means doing something not for it's initial purpose, and therefore if you have having sex not for reproduction, you are abusing sex? Is that what you are saying?

If so, then you are assuming that sex is for reproduction. And that is irrefutable. You have to prove the exclusivity of this reasoning for someone to accept that sex for reasons other than procreation is 'abuse'.



You could look at it another way... Sex is used for procreation...sex is used for enjoyment. Both can yield the same result: intimacy and physical pleasure. So which method is probably what it's supposed to be for?
...

The concept of responsibility is exactly what you are getting to with your concept of abuse, only more concretely defined.

Responsibility in pregnancy means doing something about that pregnancy. To ignore the pregnancy is to shirk the duty to responsibility. The other side of that is to do something about the pregnancy. Getting prenatal care is doing something. Going to the doctor is doing something. Getting an abortion is doing something.

It's irrefutable. Getting an abortion means taking responsibility for your actions. It may not be something you agree with, but your opinion inserted doesn't change it.

This is not being disrespectful to your age, but actually giving it creedence. I'd bet that your perspectives on sex may change as you gain more experiences in life. Mine certainly did.

Sorry about the mix-up then. I realize that Ewings post was pretty confusing unless you were looking for his response to me.

Personally, I simply think that parenthood and pregnancy are decisions that are too big to allow someone else-be it the government, parents, etc-to make. I understand and respect that some people view the fetus in such high regard that they cannot imagine ending its existence, but I do not and I do not because of all the Biology classes I have had that do not seem to convey fetuses are as highly functioning as pro-lifers do.

Who decides what purpose what organs are for, and who decides how many purposes an organ can have?

Some of you really need to get a clue. There is no SOMEONE making up rules like this for EVERYONE. If you happen to believe that, great. Many people DO NOT, so stop trying to force your religious beliefs onto the rest of us.

Why are you blaming one side when sex is a two sided issues?

I am married and would get an abortion if I had too, if you read up on statistics alot of married woman get abortions.

sex is not merely pro-creational, I firmly believe in birth-control but it is not always perfect its based on chance but if used properly the percentage is higher that you wont get pregnant. Although your view lie towards no sex, sex is a basic requirement for a healthy relationship, to love someone in a relationship you must have sex as a requisite. Love in regards to a relationship means sex and devotion feel free to check the dictionary.

I went on wikipedia/msn encarta and merriam webster.

It is within the eye of the beholder and for someone who took philsopshy, it means to question things, why do they really happen?

Adoption although a good choice is not always feasible, the cost ranges from 2000$ to 70000$ for a child and their are millions of children waiting for a home. Although it is a good choice for those who want to give their child up and for the family who is waiting who only wants a newborn.

Parenting is expensive, emotionally draining, physically demanding, it is a 24 hour job that requires every little piece of you till they become more independant on their own. Your by law required to provide an abuse free, to provide their basic necessities till the age of 18 or unless you have them taken from you. It has its own benefits but in the beginning it is merely giving everything you got.

Abortion is a choice for those who want no matter the reason. It can take a lot of weight off someones shoulders, it can provide them the time they need instead of living off the system because they dont have a highschool diploma (an example.)

The truth is something people dont want to hear knowledge is a powerful tool and I think ignorance is bliss (narrow-minded.)

Why should people stop having sex because in the eyes of someone else it is wrong?

Quality of life for people on this world should be more important than quantity of life.

In regard to philosphy class, I attended one a few times, the greatest thing they said "we are all philosphers." by questioning anything we do or the world we have the inapt ability to become philosphers/independant thinkers.

By closing ones mind to any possible idea outside of you frame of thought is ignorance. So although you may not agree you need to question the idea or thought.

Religion and philosphy contradict each other hence why alot of philsophers are atheists although Id rather consider myself agnostic. Everything is based on a belief system that you were raised on and you need to shed the old skin and rebuild a new.

Philosphy means one who is friends with wisdom.

On another note you may want to read the bible of mary magdalene and the bible of judas or even the other bible. The new testament is a watered down version of the old one, these other bibles werent included because the dont conform to christinitys view and therefore were exlcuded. They were excluded because it is not what they want people to know because and these people were deemed black sheep, there many but it also provided a different outlook.

There is however, often a group of people who make rules that apply to MOST people.

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. Been a busy month, and put this thread on the back burner.



I'm sorry about my previous post, but it's too late too edit it now. Even though the quotes are marked with text as opposed to code, I thought my post would still be readable. Nevertheless, I thank you for letting me know how to do it right, and will do it in code from now on!



Dang, that sucks. I'm a bone cancer survivor, and high dose chemo left my body wanting. Nutrition would obviously affect the child's development and health. You're in the demographic of those that may need abortion, as long as you're being smart about contraceptives, yadda yadda.



I believe that if someone holds a different view than me, and with both parties living in the U.S., then both have the rights to believe what they wish. But, that has nothing to do with one idea being inferior to the other. If a good ole boy from Alabama wants to drive his truck that gets 12 MPG and do nothing to help the environment, then he has the right to do so. If an environmentalist from California wants to drive his Prius and spread awareness about global warming, then he also has the right to do so. But, which person's view is probably better, despite them both having every right to do what they want?

Everyone does have a right, but they also have the responsibility to do the best thing possible. I believe a change in lifestyle is the better choice over abortion, and you believe abortion is the better choice over lifestyle change. We have the right to believe what we want, but if one of us can conjur up a convincing argument, then the other should accept it. If they don't, then they are either stubborn or a fool.



Have I said, "You shouldn't have premarital sex because the Bible says not to," once in context to my argument? I believe I have not and have done my best to leave religion out of this, so I would appreciate it if you would not compare my theology or God to that or a spaghetti monster. And if you do, then make it something like Godzilla or King Kong, cause they're way cooler. Dragons work too. Thank you.



Thank ya Birch!



I assume that sex is used for reproduction, bonding/intimacy, and physical pleasure. Intimacy and pleasure can be had without having sex, but reproduction cannot take place without intercourse. Therefore, I think reproduction takes presedence over intimacy and pleasure. So that's how I came to my conclusion that sex is initially used for reproduction. If a couple has sex with absolutely no intention of having offspring as a result of it despite knowing pregnancy can result from their actions, then they are behaving irresponsibly.



Your view is that abortion is taking responsibility for your actions. My view is that changing your lifestyle so that abortion isn't even necessary is more responsible. If a person who is addicted to drugs goes to rehab to cure himself, then he is doing to responsible thing. But if the drug addict had changed his lifestyle and never became addicted in the first place, then that seems like the better situation. Taking necessary precautions to ensure that a certain outcome doesn't unfold is more responsible than fixing the outcome that you knew could have happened after it has presented itself.

The thing is that most people will not alter their lifestyles in exchange for doing the responsible thing. Adults have the legal right to have sex, so that is reason enough to be able to do it. While that is true, they should also take responsibility for their actions. Abortion is like a loophole that allows people to have their cake and eat it too. It allows them to not be accountable for their actions, which troubles me. If adults would just act like adults, then the Abortion Debate wouldn't even be as big of deal as it is.



It appears that the viability of the fetus varies from person to person. One person disapproves of the morning after pill because if the woman became pregnant then she should have the baby, and another person counters that by saying it's just a precaution, there's no way to have known that the woman was inpregnated or not, and that the fetus is less than a day old.

I just don't see how the two sides can compromise.



On the first part, we're just brain storming. If a dude wants to use his ding-dong as a paint brush and sell his paintings, then I guess that's a use. But then again, we're not talking about uses or purposes of organs, but of acts using organs that pertain to the majority of those performing the act. Porn stars and prostitutes use sex as a way to make a living, but the average person probably isn't in that category.

You have a right to believe what you want. Others have the right to tell you you're wrong and that they're right. Yes, they may be being intolerant of your views, but then again, you are being intolerant of their intolerance. Both sides are hindering this ideal interaction that you are wanting, but both have the right to do so. Therefore, even if you are right, you should have no complaint in that regard, right?



I was in a relationship for a year and a half. I was in love, and I never had sex with my ex-girlfriend. To say that me and my ex-girlfriend were incapable of loving one another or having a healthy relationship is foolishly bold when you have no information nor insight to the situation. That goes to all the other couples who've never had sex and still maintain love and health.

Love is not the rush a person gets when their hormones are roaring and their nerve endings are satisfied. It goes much deeper than that.

I find it somewhat insulting that you're taking it upon yourself to make a mental list of who "needs" an abortion and who doesn't. You don't know these people who are getting abortions. You don't know what's going on in their lives, their financial situations, whether they're victims of abuse or rape, how many children they're already supporting, or their life goals. Nobody should have to explain to anyone else why they think their abortion is justified, and I'm disappointed in you that you're giving Reptar your blessing to do it "if she's being smart about contraceptives". She doesn't need your permission, sir. No woman does.



The difference is, the good ol' boy from Alabama (thanks for that stereotype, by the way... I'm from the south myself) has the right to drive his vehicle. His rights don't stop at believing he should be allowed to. It ultimately doesn't matter if he's right or if the California guy is right - they both have the right to exercise that right. That's what's being debated here.

You can believe abortion is wrong all you want, as long as you don't step on the rights of women who believe abortion is what's best for them. You believing it's wrong doesn't give you the right to decide for other women.



You believe a couple that chooses to live child-free should abstain from sex because abortion offends you? That's extremely offensive. You don't know if they're using contraception or not, so how can you say they're behaving irresponsibly? How is having sex with my husband making me irresponsible? Are you telling me that after I'm done having babies I should never make love with my husband again? Who are you to tell me that, and who are you to shake a finger in my direction for it?



Your view is exactly that - your view. You can believe the sky is purple if you want - it doesn't give you the right to try to change children's schoolbooks to reflect your opinion. It doesn't give you the right to change the law because you think adults who get pregnant should change their lives so they don't make a decision you don't agree with.

Again, you don't know these people. Don't assume they're acting irresponsibly, and don't assume they're not acting like adults just because they don't want to bring a child into the world. Do you have any idea the magnitude of that decision? I'm fairly sure you won't until you actually have a child of your own. The responsibility is overwhelming.



It's very simple. People can believe whatever they want to believe, as long as they give others the right to decide what's best for themselves. Nobody's saying pro-life shouldn't believe a z/e/f is worth saving... the problem is they want to OUTLAW abortion because they don't agree with it. That puts women at risk and sends a message that we aren't capable of making our own decisions concerning our bodies. Why should a man's opinion four states away affect MY life? It's ridiculous.



Our only complaint is that people are pushing for the outlaw of abortion. We're not trying to change minds here - we're trying to keep a law in place that allows women to get proper medical treatment if THEY DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES that they don't want their pregnancy to continue. I think it's sad that so many people think women shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions.



You're also quite young. I abstained from sex until I found someone I knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with, so I understand. The difference is, your relationship of a year and a half ended without marriage. Try getting married and telling your wife you still don't want to make love until you're ready for children. Most couples aren't financially ready for children until they're settled in their careers and own their own homes and cars. That takes years. A typical marriage can't survive years without sex.

And after you're done making all the babies you want, are you going to tell your wife no more sex for her? How old do you think your wife will be when she's done with birthing babies? 30? 35? Do you know that most women live well past their 70's? Will you make her go 35 years without physically showing her how much you love her? You'll be setting your marriage up for failure, sir. I hope as you age and experience more of the world your views will change - they probably will. Experience is the best teacher.

And THAT is the central issue. You can be a christian, and be opposed to abortion and birth control FOR YOURSELF.

Heck, you can believe that you should only have sex when the thermometer indicate you are fertile. You can believe that oral sex and masturbation are wrong. You can choose not to be homosexual Or, conversely, you can believe that only anal sex is right, or that less than three in a bed is immoral....Whatever. You can believe that anyone who hold a contrary view to yourself will go to hell, or will spontaneously combust or is someone you wouldn't want to sit next to at a dinner party. Whatever. As long as you do not try to legislate what OTHER PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE DEIFFERENTLY should do or are allowed to do with their bodies.

I don't care if YOU think that sex is for making babies. Goody for you. I think you are wrong and deluded, but I won't try to legislate that you must have sex for fun.

As a sidenote, I particularly think it is admirable (and should be mandatory) for any male who does not believe in abortion to be celibate, since you cannot know what a woman will do should you impregnate her. Even your wife may decide that, contrary to what she may have believed and agreed with you, that she doesn't after all want to remain pregnant or have a child. If you can't stomach the notion that some woman would abort your baby, you really need to make sure you don't get anyone pregnant.

I can think homicide is wrong for myself, but I can't tell YOU not to kill my friend.

The actually meaning of love is sex, if you read a dictionary Merriam webster, msn encarta or even wikipedia the definition within a relationshiop can mean sexual desire or lust which are two different thing but share a same base. I definatly wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone whom I love and not have sex with them, it would be weird a no attachments....

A relationship is like a puzzle, you need certain pieces to make it a whole or a bigger picture and some pieces seem to be lacking...........the best recipe for marriage is sex, friendship and commitment.

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_/love.ht ml
Read the third and fifth use of the word love...

To answer the OP's question - I am pro-choice because I believe that to force a woman to gestate against her will is a violation of her body akin to rape. Gestation and childbirth is many times more dangerous for the woman than legal first trimester abortion, not to mention the other tolls it takes on the body as well as the extreme discomfort (nausea, having your body stretched all out of proportion, having your bladder squeezed to the point you constantly have the urge to pee, backaches, mobility issues etc etc) and it should be up to the woman and *only* the woman, to decide whether to take the risks/undergo the pain or not.

the 5 billion people on this planet tends to suggest that pregnancy isnt very dangerous. a group of narcicistic women patting each other on the the back and bragging about how great it is to be allowed to kill unborn babies is all these forums are.

Yes, it's great that women aren't forced to go to back-alley quacks who assault them with dirty instruments and give them life-threatening infections. It's great that women don't have to throw themselves down staircases or force coat hangers and crochet needles into themselves. It's great that they don't have to ingest dangerous amounts of medicine in the slim hopes that it will abort their pregnancy without killing them.

Abortion happens whether it's legal or not. Keeping it legal keeps these women alive and healthy.

I'm half way in my pregnancy and I feel fantastic!!!!!!!! It doesn't look dangerous to me so far.

It is great when someone who is happy to be pregnant is feeling good about it. (Can you imagine how you might be feeling right now if you DEFINITELY did not want to be pregnant or did not want a child?)

Just out of curiosity -- and I think you are intentionally pregnant, correct? -- did you first research the potential health effects of pregnancy and childbirth, or did the doctor at least give you an indication of the potential risks?