like i stated, i do believe it is human, but not a human BEING. You have yet to prove to me that it is a BEING. We all know it is human.

You are misunderstanding. I KNOW it is a human fetus because it IS a human fetus, just like I'm a human adult. Fetus and adult are both stages of development. But, you do not see it as A human being. Why is a fetus only human in the adjective sense when it has its own human DNA, it's own developing body/organs, etc. Having to be connected to another human to survive doesn't necessarily make it less human or less alive. It still needs nutrients and oxygen to survive. It gets it a different way than the born because it is too young and underdeveloped to get it any other way.

You are right, I do not see it as a human BEING. I see it as human. But not being. So it is you that is misunderstanding. And until we can define "human being" non-empirically, then I fully stand by my definition. I am not dehumanizing anything. To call a human fetus a HUMAN FETUS is humanizing it.

You an think of it as a human being if you like. Language only allows us to put labels on things, it does not affect what something IS or IS NOT. What is a human being? What is a "being"? Is the embryo developing inside a chicken egg a being? If not, why not? "Being" is just a word. It has been shown that, as far as legal definitions go, a fetus is not a human being. If you have some other definition, that is fine for you. Please explain your definition and understanding of the word "being" , as it seems a bit vague.

Please show me a legal definition of human being or fetus. Please don't show me anything that says that a fetus isn't a PERSON. I already know a fetal human isn't a person by law.

A fetus is existing. It is living. It needs oxygen and nutrients. It grows. It is a human being in its early stages of development. During late gestation, a fetus becomes sentient. It has awareness. It can feel pain. It can do things that an infant can do. Sometimes it even tries to breath. But for some reason, it isn't considered A human. Only a human fetus. At birth, a baby is extremely helpless. It cannot take care of itself. It is not even completely developed. It is not as aware as a more mature human child. Yet, it is a human BEING. I don't understand. Birth cannot possibly be the only factor in being a human being. You can't argue sentience or the ability to live on it's own when many BORN humans have brain disabilities or have to be hooked up to machines to live.

So, why is birth the only way to be A human?

Can you not read? We have both stated it IS A HUMAN.

This is clearly very important to you -- that something is A HUMAN or not. Is the problem (vis a vis abortion, ostensibly the subject here) that this status is critical in defining whether something deserves rights and protection? Because, basically, it's hard to argue that a human zygote or human embryo (which are the most likely stages of development at abortion) or a human fetus have any more intelligence or feelings or emotions or sentience than, say, a 5 year old chimpanzee or even a two week old kitten.

Heck, IMO a 5yo chimp or a 2 week old kitten have way more sentience than a z/e. They are established beings and protected under law. You cannot just go out and kill them without facing legal consequences. Yes, abortion is legal and there are no legal consequences, but there (to some ppl) are moral consequences. There is a HUGE difference in legal consequences and moral consequences, however.

Because it refutes your claims? Tough.

Because that is how scientists classify organisms.

aochirss I am a scientist and I can tell you this is not how we classify organisms.

Um, haha? I am a scientist as well, and as each person has their own classification, each scientist has their own classification and opinion as well. And I can tell you right now, in NO textbook, no publication that is purely scientific and unbiased, is a fetus called a human being. It is called a human fetus, an embryo, a zygote, a blastocyst, a fertilized ovum. NO WHERE is it called a human fetus being. It is called by its SCIENTIFIC NAME...a HUMAN fetus. Or whatever stage of developent it is at. Classification of organisms themselves is a bit different, however, I understood what you were saying aochriss. Its just some people are so caught up in what the proper definition is or isnt of a z/e/f that they fail to realize that, HEY I already agreed it was human, just not a human being.

The law does not generally refer to a "human being" but to a "person." That's the definition that is required. Whether or not a fertilized ovum, a fetus, an anacephalic baby, or a brain-dead accident victim is a human being is biological hair-splitting. But whether or not it is a person and therefore has the rights of a person, that is an important legal issue.

I don't believe there is any standard legal definition of a person. However, corporations are described as "artificial persons."
As already said there is no legal definition of a human, and none is needed or required,
but there are physical and juridical (or artificial) persons (like a company),
also public (mainly state owned) and private persons.

A person consists of the ability to have rights and duties; and of the ability to actually take action in using those rights and performing duties.

The first is for all persons that have been born (and in the cases of inheritance from a deceased person fetuses also have the ability to have rights).
The second is not for mentally ill persons, children, etc (dependant on national laws of each country)

And know that in law nothing is set in stone. Definitions change and adjust to new situations as time goes. The thought that in some future human rights would stop function solely because of the fact that humans would have evolved into another species is lunatic.
There's a whole subscience category called "interpretation of law".

p.s. I'm a law student.
There are various definitions for a human being. Biologically, they are classified as hominids of the species Homo sapiens, which are a primate species of mammal with a highly developed brain. Humans have the highest brain to body mass ratio of all large animals. They have a life expectancy approaching 80 years old in wealthy nations, walk on two feet and have opposable thumbs. Skin color ranges from almost back to pale pinkish-white. Height and weight varies, depending on locality, historical factors, environmental, and cultural factors such as diet.

Human beings are characterized by the ability to speak. They have a high capacity for abstract thinking and are commonly thought to possess a spirit or soul which transcends the physical body. The spiritual aspect of human beings is often defined in terms of rituals and religion. Theories involving the definition of the beginning of human life, evolution, and creationism are hotly debated topics in the law.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/h/human-bei ngs/

A fetus is typically defined as a developing human at a certain point after conception to birth. The precise definition varies by applicable laws, some of which define a fetus to include the element of viability, so that it is able to survive independently outside the womb. Various laws have been enacted to protect fetuses and punish individuals who injure them or cause their death. For example, Texas' Prenatal Protection Act holds people who assault or harm a pregnant woman liable for crimes against the mother and unborn child. The issue has been raised as to whether the law requires doctors to report substance abuse of a pregnant mother. The federal Born-Alive Infant Protection Act of 2002 amends the legal definitions of "person," "human being," "child" and "individual" to include any fetus that survives an abortion procedure. The federal law requires doctors to attempt to keep alive a fetus that survives an abortion.

Fetal protection laws vary by state. Some states states may amend existing homicide statutes to include the fetus as a possible victim, pass statutes defining the fetus as a person or human being, so that a fetus in encompassed by other statutes applicable to all persons or human beings, enact new statutes that create the crime of injury to a fetus, fetal homicide, or "feticide", or extend wrongful death and personal injury statutes to allow civil suits against individuals who cause the death or injury of a fetus.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fetus/

rofl!!!! I just spit milk all over my laptop!!!!

Homo sapiens


Superregnum: Eukaryota
Regnum: Animalia
Subregnum: Eumetazoa
Cladus: Bilateria
Cladus: Deuterostomia
Phylum: Chordata
Subphylum: Vertebrata
Infraphylum: Gnathostomata
Superclassis: Tetrapoda
Classis: Mammalia
Subclassis: Theria
Infraclassis: Placentalia
Ordo: Primates
Subordo: Haplorrhini
Infraordo: Simiiformes
Parvordo: Catarrhini
Superfamilia: Hominoidea
Familia: Hominidae

When is a human being not a person?

I still don't understand why the human-ness, human beingness, etc. of a zygote/embryo/fetus of the species Homo Sapiens is seen by (some) anti-choicers as being such a critical issue. Like, all you have to do is to "prove" that it has to be called "A Human Being" for everyone to agree with you.

Ultimately, I would argue the exact opposite. If it IS a HUMAN BEING, then it has even less right to be ensconced inside the body of another HUMAN BEING.

The thing i do not understand is Neutral asked for a LEGAL definition of human being. The legal definition of a human being IS a PERSON. Therefore, if Neutral says he/she knows that a fetus is not a person, then how can said fetus be a human being, by legal definition. "A fetus is typically defined as a developing human at a certain point after conception to birth." Nowhere in this sentence are the words "human being" used. And this is the LEGAL definition of a fetus. And Nightangel, ANYONE could have looked that info up online. I understood what Aochriss meant by what she said. She simply meant that scientists use the term human fetus when describing exactly that: a human fetus.

I'm really thinking a fetus is a human being here.

It's human, there is no debate there.

The concept of "being" is that something exists...
-it is
-it "be's"
-it is 'being'.

It means "to be". So a fetus exists, it is human. It is a human being.

I don't think it makes a difference. Call is a cyclone, or a rug, it still is exactly what it is.

and don't most people agree that jews are human just not human beings?