No, your weird quote said that the unborn are biological BEINGS!

I try to tell people that human being is not the same as person.

Once again the argument sways offcourse. Who cares what you call a z/e/f...no matter what a pro choicer calls them, we are wrong. I get bashed for using z/e/f, get bashed for using biological human, get bashed for using biological being, get bashed for using mass of tissue. Face it, pro lifers want to HUMANIZE the z/e/f as much as possible. The argument for pro-life/pro-choice has and always will be ABORTION itself. Prolifers want the law abolished, prochoicers want the law to protect a woman's rights to her INDIVIDUAL person. So, like I said, call it what you want. I do not care.

Of course you don't care.

But, I would like an explanation for what your quote meant by BIOLOGICAL BEING. And actual proof that a fetus is not a human.

And don't forget many pro-choicers want to dehumanize the unborn as much as possible, too.

Yet you have no problem with dehumanizing women and treating them as breeding fodder.

I don't?

I don't think any pro-choicer here has tried to dehumanize anything. We have all said z/e/f OR adult, we are all masses of tissue. So no one is dehumanizing anyone. Prolife wants to give z/e/fs way more than what they are...they want to give this undeveloped being, entity, mass of tissue, whatever, the same rights that an established human who can think, feel, decide, breathe on its own (minus mechanical means) has. That is not fair to give a woman lesser rights just because she is ABLE to carry a z/e/f. Bad things happen in the world, including birth control failures, slips of the condom, plan B failures, rape, incest, life threatening illnesses, deformities, lack of financial means, and yes sometimes careless women. No one here has to agree that abortion is right, no one has to agree that it is wrong. It is all about your choice. Can you honestly go up to a z/e/f and ask if it wants to live or die? Will it even remember that it was concieved? Will a baby that is born remember its short life if its murdered? No one knows the answer to these questions, it is all speculation. To ask me whether I think a z/e/f is human or not is pointless. Yes it is human, but no, it is not a being in the same sense as you or I or my brother's newborn baby. The law does not deal in speculation and everything about prolife is speculation. Pro choice is not. We don't care either way. If you want to abort, fine, if you don't fine. Your choice. Your right to have that choice.

There are two glaring fallacies in the message in this picture. The first is that the only person alive who qualifies to say anything about her own pregnancy is the pregnant woman herself. The holder of this sign is not a pregnant woman and is therefore disqualified from the decision to abort or not. The second is that if God holds court, as this sign says, there is no indication or evidence that the holder of the sign has participated in or has knowledge of such a court. Nowhere in the Bible is there mention of abortion. Nowhere does the Bible give advice to abstain from sex before marriage. If people have a problem with abortion, let them stand on their two feet and expound and not wildly fantasize blaming their personal opinions on God or the Bible.

The only person who qualifies to make the decision about abortion is the pregnant woman. Religious organizations spend a lot of time and money trying to convince pregnant women not to have abortions, and those who are uncertain because of this relentless pursuit may be persuaded against their better judgment not to have an abortion. We see the effects of a wrong decision every day in infants who are beaten to death, tortured to death, thrown in Dumpsters, wrapped in plastic bags and tossed on the roadside. At this point they are human beings. This is homicide.

Birth certificates indicate the date of birth of us all in the U.S. This is not contrary to anything stated anywhere in the Bible. Some say that birth begins at conception, but very often spontaneous abortions occur with no human help. Too often when human beings run out of arguments, they say: "God says," or "It's the will of God." Others say that everything that happens is the will of God. The consequences of bearing unwanted children are far more heinous than abortion. Nobody should be born to end a short life by drowning in a bathtub or after a few days or hours suffocated in a pile of garbage. Society and civilization would be much better off if all the murdered children had never been born.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/6 56863/what_does_the_bible_say_about_aborti on.html

I do agree that the z/e/f is a human but my definiton of being is different, so my definition of a z/e/f is a biological human. Being, to me is something that a sentient human qualifies as.
Question: What does the Bible say about abortion?

Answer: The abortion debate has heavy religious dimensions. If we take a purely secular view of human nature, then abortion during the first weeks of pregnancy is hardly a bioethical concern--there's no time for a brain, the seat of secular personhood, to develop.

But if we approach the question from more of a religious angle, then it becomes more problematic. The Roman Catholic Church, for example, teaches that the soul is implanted at the moment of conception. Other traditions teach that the soul enters the body during quickening, the point in pregnancy (usually around week 20) when the fetus begins to move. But what does the Bible itself have to say about the matter?

The Bible never specifically mentions abortion. This is significant, because herbal abortifacients--most notably pennyroyal and silphium--were in common use at the time that the New Testament was written. Jesus, Paul, and the other major figures of the New Testament were surrounded by cultures that practiced abortion, but no specific condemnation of the practice can be found in the Bible.

Likewise, Exodus 21 draws a clear demarcation between the killing of a person and the killing of a fetus. Exodus 21:12, for example, reads:

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee.
But Exodus 21:22 reads:
When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.
In other words: Killing a person outside of the womb warrants the death penalty or exile, but killing a fetus is punishable only by a fine--and that's in a circumstance where the killing of a fetus takes place against the woman's will. Exodus describes no penalty of any kind for women who choose to terminate their own pregnancies, nor does any other passage in the Bible.

But the Bible certainly suggests that human life begins prior to birth. While Rebekah is pregnant with the twins Esau and Jacob, for example, Genesis 25:22 states that "the children struggled together within her." Likewise, when Elizabeth (pregnant with John the Baptist) meets the Virgin Mary, "the child leaped in her womb" (Luke 1:41). One of the most frequently cited passages in the abortion debate is Psalm 139:13, which addresses God with the statement that "you knit me together in my mother's womb."

So the Bible's position on abortion, like its position on so many other issues, can be described as extremely ambiguous. It treats the death of a fetus as a non-homicide and makes no attempt to punish women who have abortions, nor does it mention the widely-practiced abortion that was contemporaneous to the period during which the relevant texts were written. On the other hand, it does not suggest or imply that personhood begins at the moment of birth. This is why the Judeo-Christian tradition has long struggled with the question of abortion. A theological approach to abortion, if it is to be found at all, cannot explicitly be found in the text of the Bible.
http://civilliberty.about.com/od/abortion/ f/bible_abortion.htm

I just figured out what it means by "dehumanising" -- it's actually the exact opposite. Because human is simply the species - I agree, the sperm, egg, zygote, embryo, fetus, baby, infant, toddler, pre-schooler, child, adolescent, adult, geriatric and everything in between is human. But yeah? So what? It doesn't strike me as something so worthy. But to the anti-abortionists, it's because humans are soooo SPECIAL. Yes, somehow being human is really such an incredibly wonderful and superlative thing to be! When it says "dehumanising" what it means is actually saying that HUMAN isn't SPECIAL. Dehumanising? I think saying that all these cells are human cells is, well...humanising. But no -- saying that humans have cells like any other creature is somehow negating the wonderfulness that is the essence of humanness.

Well, I'm atheist, so this really means nothing to me.

Pro-choicers tend to think humans are soooo special, also. Otherwise, they wouldn't care about the abortion debate.

I'm athiest as well fyi. And these articles are part of the reason I am.

"Thou shall not kill" (Exodus 20:13; Deuteronomy 5:17)

The basic principle behind this commandment is that we are to value human life and treat every person with the dignity befitting someone made in the image of God. When we fail to listen to God on this point, there are consequences - more death, more killing, more inhumanity to man. When we listen to him, things are better for everyone.

And this is not the only explicit commandment, the most important commandment from Jesus.

"Love one another" (John 4:7-10)

If you love one another you don't kill them.

I don't take anything in the bible seriously...the above quotes were just to show that there is nothing about abortion in the bible, for those people who say that the bible is the reason they are antiabortion. I'm atheist so the bible's words mean nothing to me.
And besides, wouldn't it be homicide according to the bible, if you were to decide to take someone off life support? God supposedly decides everyone's time...
That is why I do not believe anything in the bible...too many inconsistencies.

The bible is extremely consistent and very clear but if want to find justifications for abortion then it will be inconsistent to you of course.
And no it's not homicide to take somebody off life support in case of inminent death because the life support machines is stopping God to take the person away. This is very different to abortion where the baby is naturally growing with no problems and you decide to stop the life for your own selfish benefit.

The bible is extremely consistent and very clear but if want to find justifications for abortion then it will be inconsistent to you of course.
And no it's not homicide to take somebody off life support in case of inminent death because the life support machines is stopping God to take the person away. This is very different to abortion where the baby is naturally growing with no problems and you decide to stop the life for your own selfish benefit.

consistent?
ok whatever...explain this then: why does it say in one part of the bible to turn your cheek but in another part an eye for an eye?
or this: And if men struggle and strike a woman with child so that she has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury, he shall be fined as the woman's husband may demand of him, and he shall pay as the judges decide. But if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
You say that your god condemns abortion, yet the payment someone must make to a woman who miscarried with no further injury to her person, is a simple FINE. But if there is further injury, say as to the woman, then the result is eye for eye tooth for tooth.
And sorry dear, just because you remove someone from life support does not mean they WILL die. They MAY die, but you don't know that. I would like to see you try and make the decision with your child if something should happen. I have been there. With my own child. And its not black and white dear. And its not considered selfish to keep someone on life support because there is even a slim chance they might survive. What if your baby, like mine was born at 24 weeks gestation? Would you deny life support? And yes mechanical ventilation IS life support, no matter what percentage of oxygen is being used. To take a baby that premature off life support WOULD mean iminent death. What if she was older, say 15. Got in a car wreck. Her brain is damaged, but no one knows the severity. One scan says she is brain dead, the other shows brain activity. She is on life support to keep her oxygenated while her body heals. No one knows her outcome but if mechanical ventilation was removed, she would surely die. Would you remove it? Sometimes life support does hinder iminent death, sometimes it prevents it. So nothing is as it seems.

And there is no benefit to abortion. Do you honestly think that any woman would throw a party after such an affair? I bet each woman who has had an abortion did so for very personal reasons, not benefits. Yes you can have an abortion because you are not financially prepared, or want to finish school. But those things are not benefits. They are rights. You have the right to finish school, you have the right to financial freedom. Not everyone chooses to impose on these rights but they are not benefits. No woman would see an abortion as a benefit. They see it as a choice that they have the right to make an option for or against. And I am not justifying anything but the freedom of choice. Your bible even says we as humans have the right to express choices. It also says we do not have the right to sin but do have the right to be forgiven of our sins. That in itself is inconsistent. How can you have the right to choose but not sin. And according to the bible you were a sinner before conception. So why does it matter so much (religiously)what someone else does to "sin". Its not your choice, you wont be commiting the "sin" so why make such a big hooplaa over it? IMO leave religion out of it. Makes things simpler. And if you have religious beliefs against abortion, fine. No one is telling you what you can or cannot do.

http://eileen.undonet.com/Main/KreeftBeckw ith/WhatIsAHumanBeing.html

and i would like to see actual proof that a fetus is a human being.