But, what is the TRUE reason a pro-choicer would call a fetus or embryo a bunch of cells? To make it appear INSIGNIFICANT. To dehumanize it. To try to show it's okay to abort it because it is nothing but cells. That is NOT a reason for abortion obviously. So, why call it a bunch of cells? YOU do not truly think we are all JUST cells. Otherwise, you wouldn't care about the abortion debate. Please stop finding an answer to everything. No pro-choicer who calls a fetus a bunch of cells is actually believing that the born is just a bunch of cells also.

Your post brought up things that I wasn't even talking about. I wasn't discussing the legality of abortion.

I'm still not talking about abortion law. Many pro-choicers DO dehumanize the unborn. And there is no reason for it. That is MY POINT.

But thats the thing, we are all cells, we are called multi-cellled organisms for a reason....so there really is no difference between calling a zygote or whatever stage a mass of cells versus the technical name, because technically, they are both right.

yeah you totally missed my point...I was pointing out that we are a bunch of organised cells. So human embryo/mass of cells=same thing.

MY big question is: Why does it matter what someone else decides to do with THEIR own body...is it really anyone else's business?

Because it is NOT a HUMAN BEING...it is a biological human. You do not get the rights of a sentient, autonomic, INDIVIDUAL human BEING until you are born as dictated by LAW. We are not dehumanizing its biology, we are dehumanizing its autonomy...because it does not have it yet.

I'm a biological human, too. Human being is a species. Person isn't. A fetus isn't a person. Person and human being aren't always actually interchangeable terms. I have yet to see something proving that it isn't a human being at all. We know it isn't an INDIVIDUAL human being, but where does it say that it isn't a human being at all?

She is confused. There is no where it says that it is not a human being.

They don't have autonomy in the law of the government but they have complete autonomy under the law of God. The law of the government can change anytime.

The difference being that you are not required by law to believe in God so that is obsolete.

[quote="NeutralUsername]
I'm a biological human, too. Human being is a species. Person isn't. A fetus isn't a person. Person and human being aren't always actually interchangeable terms. I have yet to see something proving that it isn't a human being at all. We know it isn't an INDIVIDUAL human being, but where does it say that it isn't a human being at all?[/quote]
The law says it loud, clear and perfectly understandable:
In current United States law, at the moment of birth a BIOLOGICAL BEING becomes a HUMAN BEING. By contrast, in declaring in 1973 that abortion is a permissible medical procedure, the U.S. Supreme Court said, "The unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense." (Hardin 1982:138) The transition to the status of full humanity is viewed not as a biological fact, but as a legal or cultural fact. There is a practical aspect pointed out by Retired Supreme Court Justice Tom Clark: the moment of birth is known, but the moment of conception is speculative. "...the law deals in REALITY not obscurity--the KNOWN rather than the UNKNOWN. When sperm meets egg, life MAY eventually form, but quite often it does not. THE LAW DOES NOT DEAL IN SPECULATION." (Swomley 1983:1)
So does the definiton of being: Main Entry: 1be·ing
Pronunciation: \ˈbē(-i)ŋ\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a: the quality or state of having existence b (1): something conceivable as existing (2): something that actually exists (3): the totality of existing things c: CONSCIOUS existence : LIFE
2: the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : PERSONALITY
3: a living thing; especially : PERSON
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

And the definition of person:
Main Entry: per·son
Pronunciation: \ˈpər-sən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosōpa, plural of prosōpon face, mask — more at prosopopoeia
Date: 13th century
1: HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL —sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes
2: a character or part in or as if in a play : guise
3 a: one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians b: the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4 aarchaic : bodily appearance b: the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing
5: the personality of a human being : self
6: one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
7: reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to, or to one spoken of as indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many languages by verb inflection
— per·son·hood \-ˌhu̇d\ noun
— in person : in one's bodily presence
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ person

So does the legal definition of entity: An organization or PERSON that possesses a separate existence for tax purposes.

As well as the definition of biological being vs human being:
Main Entry: human being
Function: noun
Date: 1751
: human
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

bi·o·log·i·cal (b-lj-kl) also bi·o·log·ic (-ljk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, caused by, or affecting life or living organisms: biological processes such as growth and digestion.
2. Having to do with biology.
3. Related by blood or genetic lineage: the child's biological parents; his biological sister.
In short, we are all biological humans, but only those of us who have individuality, are autonomic, and have sentience are HUMAN BEINGS

No YOU are confused...the LAW says its not a human being.

Yes but as the law stands NOW, z/e/fs are not human BEINGS...they are biological humans.

You should go read this post that the pro choicer you are talking about wrote in the pregnancy forum. A girl avidly stated she was against abortion. But she might go through with it. Now, Birch, whom you speak of as dehumanizing replies "You should not go through with it if you are against it. And I am vehemently pro-choice". This is what MOST pro choicers do. We don't go around dehumanizing z/e/fs. Z/e/fs are what they are, either term works because we, as humans are multi-celled organisms, so yes, the technical term may be z/e/f but mass of cells is the same, technically. MOST pro choicers don't care what you choose to do for yourself. We don't pressure either way. We are for-choice, for individuals who wish to choose what is best for themselves. And I DO TRULY THINK that we are a bunch of cells, we are a multi-celled organism called homo-sapiens and there are many different terminologies to describe our changing cells at different stages in life. Z/e/f being three of them.

The law that you quoted is not saying it's not human being. It only says it's just not recognized as person

I DO TRULY THINK that we are more than a bunch of cells. We are unique individuals and not only do we have a body but we do have a spirit, a soul, and when we die only our cells die but not our soul.

I do respect your opinion that you think you are just only a bunch of cells.

But do you respect my opinion that you (as well as I) are only a bunch of cells?

I respect everyone's right to their opinion -- bunch of cells, godly creation, figment of our own imagination, aliens from another planet -- as long as they don't try to force theirs on me, or insist that I behave in accordance with their beliefs.

The law says it loud, clear and perfectly understandable:
In current United States law, at the moment of birth a BIOLOGICAL BEING becomes a HUMAN BEING. By contrast, in declaring in 1973 that abortion is a permissible medical procedure, the U.S. Supreme Court said, "The unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense." (Hardin 1982:138) The transition to the status of full humanity is viewed not as a biological fact, but as a legal or cultural fact. There is a practical aspect pointed out by Retired Supreme Court Justice Tom Clark: the moment of birth is known, but the moment of conception is speculative. "...the law deals in REALITY not obscurity--the KNOWN rather than the UNKNOWN. When sperm meets egg, life MAY eventually form, but quite often it does not. THE LAW DOES NOT DEAL IN SPECULATION." (Swomley 1983:1)
So does the definiton of being: Main Entry: 1be·ing
Pronunciation: \ˈbē(-i)ŋ\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 a: the quality or state of having existence b (1): something conceivable as existing (2): something that actually exists (3): the totality of existing things c: CONSCIOUS existence : LIFE
2: the qualities that constitute an existent thing : essence; especially : PERSONALITY
3: a living thing; especially : PERSON
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

And the definition of person:
Main Entry: per·son
Pronunciation: \ˈpər-sən\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosōpa, plural of prosōpon face, mask — more at prosopopoeia
Date: 13th century
1: HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL —sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes
2: a character or part in or as if in a play : guise
3 a: one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians b: the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4 aarchaic : bodily appearance b: the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing
5: the personality of a human being : self
6: one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
7: reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to, or to one spoken of as indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many languages by verb inflection
— per·son·hood \-ˌhu̇d\ noun
— in person : in one's bodily presence
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ person

So does the legal definition of entity: An organization or PERSON that possesses a separate existence for tax purposes.

As well as the definition of biological being vs human being:
Main Entry: human being
Function: noun
Date: 1751
: human
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary

bi·o·log·i·cal (b-lj-kl) also bi·o·log·ic (-ljk)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, caused by, or affecting life or living organisms: biological processes such as growth and digestion.
2. Having to do with biology.
3. Related by blood or genetic lineage: the child's biological parents; his biological sister.
In short, we are all biological humans, but only those of us who have individuality, are autonomic, and have sentience are HUMAN BEINGS[/quote]

Wait! The unborn are biological BEINGS. But, not HUMAN BEINGS. Then what species is a fetus???????? Can you show me that the law actually uses the word HUMAN BEING? I've always seen it as person. It's not a person by law, but where does it say it's not a human being?

This you posted....

"In current United States law, at the moment of birth a BIOLOGICAL BEING becomes a HUMAN BEING. By contrast, in declaring in 1973 that abortion is a permissible medical procedure, the U.S. Supreme Court said, 'The unborn have never been recognized in the law as persons in the whole sense.' (Hardin 1982:138) The transition to the status of full humanity is viewed not as a biological fact, but as a legal or cultural fact. There is a practical aspect pointed out by Retired Supreme Court Justice Tom Clark: the moment of birth is known, but the moment of conception is speculative. '...the law deals in REALITY not obscurity--the KNOWN rather than the UNKNOWN. When sperm meets egg, life MAY eventually form, but quite often it does not. THE LAW DOES NOT DEAL IN SPECULATION.'(Swomley 1983:1)"

...I only found in sites containing opinions. I tried going to the sites that originally had this paragragph and they no longer exist. Show me where you got this.