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Q: Paresthesia , Sciatica , neck and back pain
asked by: 1030guy on March 4th, 2009
New User
I have annular tears in my C4/5, and L4/5, as well as bulging herniations to my C6/7, C7/T1, T3/4, and T4/5. Took a 65-75mph rear end collision by a drunk....I was stopped.

I have been through the frustrating process, of trying to find relief/healing from the pain in my neck and back, and the radiating pain, burning, and tingling in my jaw, arms/hands, and legs/feet (paresthesia and sciatica along the C2, C8, L5, S1 dermatomes). I also have intermittent sciatica pain spikes, and muscle drop/weakness that lasts from 10secs-a couple of minutes. I have seen many doctors who are just not educated with the specifics of this type of injury, as none so far can tell me why I have these symptoms and why they have persisted for almost a year so far.

I have tried physical therapy, chiro, accupuncture (DONT TRY ELECTRO-ACCUPUNCTURE!!), TENS, and a bunch of the meds (neurontin, vicodin, norco, zanaflex, flexeril, ultram, naproxen, tylenol, motrin). The only thing I haven't tried is the epidurals, because I know several people who have had no success with them, plus all the negative possible side effects, and the risk of further injury due to strain when you can't feel the pain.

I do use a personal TENS unit, especially while at work. (I am a law enforcement officer, and currently confined to desk work in the 911 call center of our county, not the direction I imagined for my career!) The TENS does not make any of the symptoms go away, and does not have any effect once turned off, but it does distract from the back pain while on, and provides some relief. I have found nothing to relieve the pain/burning/tingling in my limbs. I use a heating/massage chair/pad at home, which provides minimal (better than nothing), and hot baths. Nothing takes it away, but cold certainly exacerbates the symptoms.

I have read good things about the microdisckectomy, and know two guys who have had it done. Both swear by it, saying it instantly relieved and removed every symptom. My problem lies with being able to find a doctor familiar with the procedure within my HMO (Kaiser). I saw a surgeon who said they do not do any surgery unless the spinal nerves are being compressed, and mine are not.

I am not looking for surgery, and would love to avoid it if at all possible. I am just looking for someone who understands this injury, and can tell me what will help.

I would readily appreciate any tips/suggestions anyone might have !
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Replies(4)
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littleonefb
replied on March 4th, 2009
Extremely eHealthy
I'm sorry you are in so much pain and not finding any relief with meds.

It is difficult to believe with your symptoms that you do not have nerve compression, and at the very least disc material from the tears irritating the nerves, at the very least.

Sounds like your health ins provider just doesn't want to provide surgical treatment for you at all but to say that they don't do surgery unless the nerves are being compressed and yours are not, sounds very strange to me.

Do you have a written report of your MRI that you can read? If not you should get a copy of it right away and see what it says yourself.

Are the doctors with your ins carrier actually reading your MRI themselves or are they just going with what the radiology report is saying?

It's hard to believe, but there are spine surgeons that can not read an MRI themselves and just go with what the radiology report says.

Unfortunately, that is not a good thing to do, as MRI readings are only that, the opinion of one radiologist over another and they can vary and be different from one radiologist to another. The doctor may also have a different reading than a radiologist.

Is there any way you can get another opinion outside of your insurance company to see if you get different results with that opinion?

Was your accident the result of being on duty and you are dealing with WC as well as the insurance company?

As for the epidurals. They can be quite successful in relieving pain and provide enough reduction in inflammation that will help to heal the tears in your discs and the bulges to return to normal position.

Yes there are risks with the epidurals, as there are risks with every one of the medications that you have and are taking.

Wether the epidurals will work to relieve pain for you is both and individual thing with each person as well as how they are given.
To be done safely and provide the best chance for relieving pain, they need to be done by a well trained pain management doctor and they need to be done under floroscope so that the doctor can see and be sure that the needle is being placed in the correct location to provide pain relief and not cause any complications for you.

If the doctor does not do injections under the use of floroscope that no one should have that doctor do any spinal epidural injections.

If you do obtain pain relief with the epidurals, you will be guided to how and when to increase your physical acitivity and would start with another round of physical therapy as well. It would be important to increase the strength of your core muscles as well as strengthen all your muscles that you have not been using or using properly while you have had the pain that you are having now.

Microdisectomy can be quite successful in relieving pain and repairing the discs, but there is always a risk that you could reherniate the disc as well. It does happen with some people.

You may need to hire an attorney to help you navigate your health care system to obtain the medical/surgical care that you properly need and have a right to receive.

It doesn't sound like they are providing you the proper care that you need nor are they providing you the accurate information on surgical treatment either.

Good luck

Fran
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1030guy
replied on March 4th, 2009
New User
Thanks, Fran, for your response. It is encouraging to hear that it is not just my perception that something is lacking in the care, and that I am not hallucinating.

It has been quite frustrating, because the doctors seem to treat everyone like a complete fool. I explain to them that I am also a registered EMT, and am familiar with anatomy, mechanics of trauma injuries, and related symptoms. They may respond in a little more detailed fashion, but still brush off my technical questions. Since the collision, I have done extensive online research regarding my injuries, and it seems that I have not yet found a doctor familiar with the specific mechanics of spinal disc trauma injuries.

This is a complicated case, as we originally pursued it as a worker's comp case, but were denied. I was on my way to work for an overtime shift (in fact was preparing to turn into the station when I was hit), and case law supports that situation as being covered as an on-duty incident. So far, they have denied the claim, on the basis that normal "coming and going" is not covered. I do have an attorney, and we are fighting this.

I also have a personal injury attorney, and I did see two outside doctors. However, the first one I was referred to was only a sports ortho, and after two months declared me healthy, telling me there was no reason he could see why I would still be experiencing any pain, tingling, or burning. Needless to say, I ceased treatment with him that day. The second seemed more interested in just collecting the insurance check, as he never spent more than 5 minutes in the room with me.

I returned to my health care (Kaiser), at the advice of my attorney, since the fool that hit me had basic liability insurance only ($15k), and in case the WC case does not get picked up, we did not want to exceed what the insurances would cover. There is an outside specialist (Dr. Moldawer, of SCOI) that I would like to see, but he does not work on a personal injury lien, so I will have to wait until the WC takes over.

Through Kaiser, I had an EMG study, which showed no extremity nerve damage. I was referred to a neurosurgeon, who reviewed my MRI with me, and told me "there are a lot people walking around with black discs." When I asked him to explain the paresthesia and sciatica, he said he couldn't. I directly asked him about the mechanics of the tears, the nucleus pulposas leaking through the annulus and irritating the innervated outer layer of the annulus and the surrounding tissues. He dodged the question and said that I had probably just torn a few nerves, and that it would just take time. This appt. was last month, 9 months after the collision.

I saw a neurologist, who agreed I had some legitimate symptoms, and he referred me to a spinal surgeon. I had my appt. with the surgeon yesterday. He would not discuss all of the levels of disc injury in one appt., and said to pick the one that hurt the most. I told him the lower spine hurt the most, but that the extremity symptoms were equal in both arms and legs. He brushed this aside and said he would only review the lower spine. He told me that I was not a surgical candidate, that they did not do surgery unless the nerves were being compressed, and my L4/5 bulge was "tiny". I asked him the same question regarding the tear, and he also brushed it off. He said there may be just inflammation of the spinal nerves, and prescribed a 6 day steroid treatment with Medrol.

I am willing to try this, however, I believe that diagnosis to be incomplete as well. If nerve inflammation was the only cause of my symptoms, then one could expect them to remain constant, and to not be suddenly, temporarily, increased when I turn or bend the wrong way.

As for the MRIs here is what the reports said:

"At C4-C5, mild anterior intervertebral disc space narrowing is present. Diffuse disc-osteophyte complex flattens the thecal sac, but does not result in central stenosis. Linear T2 hyperintensity is present within the posterior aspect of the annulus. No neural foraminal narrowing is present. Impression-Mild degenerative disc at C4-C5, with possible annular fissure."

"The L4-L5 disc does show loss of T2 signal without disc dessication. There is a very faint linear band of T2 hyperintensity in the posterior inferior annulus compatible with small annular tear but no associated disc protrustion identified. No spinal or forminal stenosis is seen. Impression-Mild disc dessication and very small posterior inferior annular tear at L4-L5."

Sorry to vent for so long, but I would like to find answers that will lead to recovery, and a return to my career, family, and active lifestyle.
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1030guy
replied on March 14th, 2009
New User
Thanks Fran for your response. (Not sure why my first response is unavailable, for review)

I do have my MRIs, and in a nutshell state the following : C4/5 - mild bulge, with small annular fissure L4/5 - mild bulge, with small annular fissure, no spinal stenosis.

The injury will (hopefully) be covered as a W/C injury, as it falls into an case law exception to the "Coming and Going" rule. At this time, I am dealing only with my HMO.

The spine surgeon put me on a 6 day course of Medrol 4mg (Methylprednisolone). He said my radiculopathy and sciatica could be due to nerve inflammation, and this would help reduce that. I have been on Motrin, Naproxen, and Ultram - all NSAIDs, and have not had any relief from these. So wasnt sure this would help, but was willing to try.

Today is the 5th day of the graduated step treatment. My radiculopathy and sciatica HAVE INCREASED. My pain levels are now even higher than they have been in a few months.

What is your opinion of nucleoplasty? Based on information I have found, this looks like a promising treatment. However, my HMO does not cover it.
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johans
replied on March 27th, 2009
New User
why don't you try turpentine(Zalmanov) baths, it should help
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