Did the OT conduct sensory testing as well? Honestly, it sound like more could be going on. If her ODD - like behaviors of refusing are related to her trying to avoid unpleasant stimuli, then something more is going on. I think it could be a combination of factors. Did the school district say ODD?

In my opinion, I would not rely on the diagnosis made my a pediatrician. They just aren't equipped to deal with this kind of thing. Take you kid to a psychologist!

Oh, so to try help you out with the question about a psychiatrist-

First of all, usually (at least around here) you would take your child to a psychologist and then to a psychiatrist if the psychologist thinks they will need medication.

Find a few psychologists (not therapist, counselor, anything like that unless they have the Ph.D. and official title of psychologist). Set up meetings with them, or even phone interviews if they'll let you. Tell them your situation, see what they think. They can tell you if they think they would be a good match for your situation. Also, there are many who specialize in kid's issues, again, you can easily find this out when you call them. Ask them what types of people/disorders they usually treat, what their theoretical background is (which will give you an idea of what kind of therapy they'll pursue) and just generally assess how you feel about them. Would you trust them with your kid?

Basically, ask them if they've dealt with this before. Ask them what they'd do about it. And ask enough psychologists that you can get a good idea about what you have to choose from. Remember, you're hiring them. You have the right to choose the perfect person for your daughter!

Any psychologist who is used to working with children, especially children with behavior disorders, will be able to understand that the child might not behave the best with her (or be manipulative) and they will be ready to deal with it.

I know some of what you are going through as my friend had a son diagnosed with ODD at age 15 - too late to help him in some ways... So it is good that you have someone who has identified it at this age - whether the diagnosis is right or wrong, something is going on with her and you need to find out what it is - and it may be a multidimensional thing - emotional and physical, as well as other dimensions such as social or spiritual or mental...

Two thoughts -

Look for a psychologist who can help you - interview at least three of them before you decide who to talk to - I have found some helpful, and others not so helpful... You might look for experience and realism rather than young optimism.

You might also look for a chiropractor who does muscle testing - my chiropractor has done some amazing things with diet changes and vitamin supplements for kids with autistic and ADD issues. Not sure he has seen ODD - but I would suspect some of the same underlying issues may be at work.

I have had ODD and there other problems my whole life, i still face many problems has now i am adult, School for me was always not the best i was always getting into trouble, school teacher etc were the best things and support to help me. I found people around me that had some of the same problems that help me in many ways to live a normal life, yes it is hard and i still have to deal with it but the doctors, teacher and others really didnt do much, because they did not understand how or why i was the way i was. In my family i also have a little 11 year cuz that has many of my problems, has he get older i understand him in ways that no one else does. We have become very close, has we both know how it is, so i think the best think that you can do is find someone that has the problem that can help i really cant say a doctor, yet they went to school to learn etc they dont know how is feels to live the life of someone that has this problems. Has i help my cuz, try to live in a life were he can be ok, he is in a school were not many people understand, and with that it makes the problem bad. So once again, because you dont know how she/he feels or even how to fix it i think that you should find the person that can help, try to talk to she/he with ways to deal with those things. I dont like when people think they know what they are talking about, when they say get help, i have gone to so many psychologist and they have not done anything for me, its the people that i understand that help me. Please dont think that you know what we feel or even think, just because you know someone with problems. You have not lived in our shoes and you would not want to. one last thing the doctor told me that to live i would need a med to control me, when i was younger my mother gave me meds has i am older now i dont, i dont think that it is right to have a med control my feelings and my live. I have made something of my self, without them and i am proud. Dont try to understand, Dont think you know!!! because you dont......

dear poster,
i think my brother is just like your daugher. he has ADD and i am sure the ODD you talked about(undiagnosed). he seems to lie about, and avoid simple tasks very often. to me, it seems he lies about these things so much he convinces himself that he is right. my parents dont seem to see this, however i am closer in age obviously and also have some ADD. i think i can relate to what goes on in his mind even though i choose different paths. keep me posted i would like to know an outcome!
thanks
evan

My son has odd and adhd. I didn't understand what it was until I seen him in "action" When he's asked to do something he doesn't want to (mostly in school) he tantrums. But not like he did when he was 2 (now 6). He spits, kicks, throws whatever he can grab, yells and says he hates me. Oh and every now and then he curses. Im over that now but he was always saying before how he wanted to kill me??? That I got disturbed by. Im one also to be at wits end. I have a 13 month old and just found out im 3 months due with another one. I blamed myself before for my sons behavior. I was a young single mom for 4.5 years and every time he wanted something I gave in. Now that he can't always get, he tantrums. He's had TSS in preschool and mobile therapy and TSS in the home. Now he just started kindergarten without TSS and its scaring me. I have had to take a demotion in the past at a great job to work part time to have these services in effect. I don't know how much more I can do or take at this point. He has been on medication and all I want to do is cry. Any suggestions??????

Mybabies3-
I too have a son-11 yrs old-who has not been diagnosed with odd, but I think he does. He has the symptoms I have read here and other places. I have not taken him to a doctor because I keep thinking I can handle this on my own. Funny, because I dont think I am winning. It is terrible. When it is bad, its BAD! How are things with your son at this point?

I am embarassed by him and the way he acts. By the way, my son does not act up in school. His acts up mainly at home. He refuses to do homework, chores, obey house rules.

Has anyone given you advice outside of this forum? If so, I would appreciate hearing any of it!

Thanks~Gee

GeeGee2
I know what you mean when you said you are embarrassed! It's like you can't even go to grocery store or family picnic w/o a moment of a fit or two or three! I was referred to outside services through my son's preschool teacher and the outpatient therapy is also in my home. What stinks about it is that I only have two nights a week w/ services, two hrs a night. So he doesn't act up much when they are over. But recently he has improved in school, just started kindergarten, but declined at home. He even does things to his younger brother who is only 14 mo. I was the same way as you. I thought I could handle it and I got to my breaking point. It's still tough even with some little help. But it's a bit better than nothing.
My son has just received an increase in his straterra to the highest mg. Dr said it would help settle him to concentrate at home and school. I just wish it would calm him to use his words and not act on me...physically too. The only suggestion I have is to see if you can get some services through a therapist???? Where we live, the state pays for his services through a program called wrap around. A bit of a long process but I know and pray that in time, my son may be "normal" again. Don't get me wrong, I may sound crazy. I love him the way he is, but one can only take so much. I just want to stop crying and want to gain control again.
I wish you luck and hope I may have helped you some. Take care. Mybabies3

Mybabies3,

Thank you so much for your reply. It helps to know that others are or have experienced the same misery, how very unfortunate for us! I know I have to do something soon as far as therapy/meds etc. My fear is NOT getting this under control and knowing one day soon he will be bigger than me (he gets physical with his sister at this point-ANGRY outburts, name calling directed at me). Plus I want him to have a "normal" life. Want him to be happy. Would love for our family to be "normal" too.
Again, thank you for the reply. Good luck with your son too, and let us both pray for better days ahead!!

~Gee

My son has a 12 year old friend who I believe has ODD. He is verbally and physically abusive to my son. He has told his mother that my son is being mean to him, yet it is actually the other way around. Now the mother is upset with my son because she believes her son. Her son has been hitting, punching, etc. his friends for a year now. I know he is ADHD, but we are not sure if he has been diagnosed with ODD. My friends and I are convinced he has it. How do we handle this with the mother. How should my son handle this with his friend. The parents are extremely nice people and we want to remaind friends. I don't want to abandon them, but if their son keeps hurting our children, we may have to. Please help.

Are you serious? After reading all of these posts, I can't believe that you all don't see what the answer is to the problem...disipline AND consitency. Your children will try and will win battles if you allow them. Don't get me wrong, you do need to pick your battles but spitting, kicking, throwing things, saying I hate you, I want to kill you...that is not tolerable. I am an adult with ADHD and I believe that if my parents were more consistent with me it might not have been so hard on them. Also, I am talking from experience, I have run a very successful daycare business in my home for 9 years. I always say that I have 2 sets of kids, one that enters my house and one that leaves with their parents. I expect a lot but I get a lot. If you don't expect and require good behavior, you won't get it. Children thrive from consistency and disipline. If you don't give it to them, you are doing a disservice to your children. Just my opinion.

well if you look up the stats odd is most common with children living with a single mother. take that into consideration and u might understand, moms really like to use the phrase "when your dad gets home" etc.

I have 13 yr old daughter with ADHD ODD. She was diagnosed at age 9, but we had been having issues and concerns for many years prior. She was not able to complete easy tasks independantly like brushing her hair and teeth for school, at school she managed respectable grades, but was always in trouble for talking and was not able to control her impulses, at home everything was an opportunity to argue or negotiate- whether it was disciopline related or whether or not the sky is blue. It is important to remember that all children with ADHD are different!!!!FOr those of you with ADHD and/or ODD kids, you really have to start thinking that your child is disabled! They are protected under federal disability law. If your child was disabled in some other way such as eyesight, hearing, and health you would have a host of parental feelings; anger, sadness, guilt, and then hopefully move on and start preparing your child for everyday, tomorrow, and future. You would call doctors and therapy to promote the best life possible for your child. ADHD is no different. My daughter requires constant management and yes, it is exhausting. Sometimes we have periods of complete calm and harmony where she can be playful, affectionate, articualte, studious, and cooperative- these are the times I think that all our efforts are paying off- I stand back and watch my little birdy jump out of the nest- and for awhile she soars- our hearts are filled with hope and pride, and then she starts to decline, and fairly quickly will bomb, bomb, bomb back to earth. I now understand that this is a lifelong struggle for us and for her. To those of you who suggest stronger discipline- you are completely WRONG! Kids with ADHD and/or ODD do NOT respond to traditional methods of consequences and rewards. However, providing structure in their life, with the parent as the manager, encouraging self awareness so that these kids can regulate their own behaviors and find some level of effective, succesful, and hopefully happy and confident independance is crucial. Try to provide immediate, reasonable consequences. And try to work on only a few problem behaviors at a time otherwise they will become overwhelmed and will fail, and possibley will have too many consequences racked up to even think about trying to dig themselves out of the hole they're in. Whenever you see progress or effort- acknowledge it and praise them! It is critical for their self-esteem, and without it ODD behaviors and defiance will get worse. This is firm, balanced, consistent, loving parenting. As far as finding doctors. You MUST find a psychologist who deals primarily with ADHD children, their families, and other issues that can be combined. Check out Russell Barkely's "Taking Charge of ADHD." His work is being highly regarded in the ADHD community and well referenced by clinicians, and psychologists. Lastly, DO NOT DELAY, get your child help NOW! This is a long road. And then take a breath and hug your kid. You two are in this together. Good Luck!