I consider both to be potential parents until incubation and birth is successfully achieved. That's why I'm reluctant to congratulate people that have just discovered they're expecting a baby (why do you think they call it "expecting"? Because it's NOT HERE yet, of course). I tell them I'm happy for them but I save the congratulations for when a baby is actually born alive from it.

Regardless of his genetic contribution to the pregnancy, a man has no claim on the woman's body just because he shot some sperm into her and since he isn't the one that has to incubate it and take the risks and negative side-effects, he has no right to force a woman he impregnates to carry and give birth to it.

I don't speak for all prochoicers, though.

I hate this obsession with semantics. Definitions of words are not some kind of absolute arbiter of reality. Reading a dictionary doesn't make someone a philosopher.

But, what is he to that fetus? Biologically, he is the father, isn't he? When the fetus is born, how does it suddenly become his? What was that fetus to him BEFORE it was born? The fetus does not change DNA when born.

The woman is biologically the mother, isn't she? What else can she be to the fetus? A host? What kind, though? The fetus IS biologically hers, so what does that make her to that fetus?

The word "expecting" does not make sense. They ARE expecting the BIRTH of their child however. The being inside the woman DOES exist. It is HERE in a sense that it is still inside the woman. It is alive. It shares both the parents DNA.

Many people also say they are CARRYING their child. Well, of course, because their child is still in them.

I believe the woman is the mother of that fetus, just as she is the mother of her infant, toddler, adolescent, etc. Fetus is the name of a stage of development. Fetus means "unborn offspring".

I guess since this is an ABORTION forum, we can call him the father of an aborted embryo, or the father of an aborted fetus. You can call him a rapist, or a sperm donor, or some bloke that got you drunk and took advantage of you, but it turns out the name and mobile phone number he gave you were made up. You can sometimes call him the father and the grandfather of the aborted fetus, if it was his own daughter that he raped.

What is your point, NUN?

My point is, that some people do not believe that a man or woman doesn't become a father or mother until the baby is born. I want to know, just what is the man and woman when the baby is still inside the woman? Technically, they're not an actual PARENT since they are not parenting the baby yet, but what about BIOLOGICALLY?

I mean, I'm asking this because some pro-choicers claim it's just developing cells, that being in the womb are not stages of the human life cycle, or that the fetus isn't human or alive. I don't see the reason for this unless THOSE opinions are the reason they support abortion as a choice?

Its just like saying any man can be a father but a kid will only have one biological parent.

Daddy has every right to that kid once its born until then he gets to sit around twiddling his thumbs.

It is developing cells NU...

The pregnancy started out with two cells and expanded on a multi cellular level.

Why do you think it is so important to have a label for them? It might be important for someone in that relationship, but why should you care what they call themselves?

If a man wants a baby, he shouldn't have slept with a woman who would abort his 'child'.

See, I can flip it so it's the man's fault now

Total agreement. But since you can't predict what a woman will decide to do -- even if she says she is anti-abortion and would never have one, that can change -- a man who doesn't agree with abortion should stay celibate, or have a vasectomy to ensure that he does not cause any situation which could result in abortion.

So, the only reason that men wouldn't want a woman to abort is simply because he doesn't believe in abortion? You mean, he can't possibly want children or couldn't handle the thought of his unborn being killed? Wow.

Possible. If you can also concede that a woman can validly want an abortion because she doesn't want children, and can't handle the thought of a creature growing inside her.

"a man who doesn't agree with abortion should stay celibate, or have a vasectomy to ensure that he does not cause any situation which could result in abortion."

That comment assumes that the man actually doesn't want kids at all. Which is weird if he wouldn't want his wife or girlfriend to abort his unborn offspring. Why should he get a vasectomy if he actually wants kids?

He can do whatever he likes. As long as he can accept that if he impregnates a woman, she may decide to abort it. If he cannot accept that, he should keep it zipped.

You make it sound sooo simple as if men have no feelings. Not ALL men are alike.

You make it sound sooo simple as if men have no feelings. Not ALL men are alike.[/quote]

....Nope. No clue why you make that interpretation. I don't think I made any statements as to how men do or don't feel. And I too have seen enough men to know that they display a good deal of variety!

You make it sound like woman should just accept pregnancy and be happy there is a guy around, what about her feelings? Who gives two shytes about how she feels?

What's a woman's relationship to an egg before it's fertilized?

Please explain to me why you think there's no difference between a sex cell and an embryo and fetus. Embryo and fetus are the names for UNBORN YOUNG. Medical books say so. An egg or a sperm separately does NOT mean unborn young. Our DNA was created at conception. That DNA is the exact same DNA we will have until death. We all were an embryo and fetus. None of us were just an egg. You can't say that, because there was no sperm that fertilized it yet! It only makes up part of us. That's like saying blue is green, without adding yellow to it yet.

Egg sperm = fertilised egg. It's just a random meeting of two cells. What is the big deal? Saying that an egg which happened to be fertilised by one of a billion random sperm is so much more special or valuable than an unfertilised egg seems weird to me. It's like getting three numbers on the lottery and winning a tenner -- it's not like you hit some kind of jackpot.