Medical Questions > Conditions and Diseases > Back Pain Forum

Lower back pain with no cause ?

Must Read

What structures make up the spine? We review basic spine anatomy here...before identifying potential causes of back pain....

Related Topics

pulling sensations in lower abdomen

lower cramping and spotting

Testicles: left lower than right, experi...

Dolorido

September 17th, 2008

PLEASE HELP doctor

I really don't know what to do...

Since about 20 years I occasionally have pain in my lower back (maybe two times a year at the most), but this pain used to disappear after two days at the most and I continued doing my normal life (which included a lot of gym and physical activity) with no problem.

That was until 2002, from then on I started to get pain very easily with anything.

Let me give you an example. I used to bench press (drug free, I'm pretty small with small bones) 275 pounds, today I get back pain just carrying a couple of books or two bottles for 100 meters!

I can not ride a bike, I can not exercise (in any form), I can get back pain just sitting long enough, standing long enough, YOU NAME IT.

I did all kinds of things, tomographies, X ray and different studies and doctors don't find anything wrong with me. (I have to confess that I'm surprised at how little they look at the results, but may be there is nothing wrong with that...).

The last doctor I asked suggested that this is psychological Shocked

Come on, I'm not the type. I'm not the guy who somatises, etc...

Others wanted me to do special gymnastics, but they didn't really realize that I was EXTREMELY TRAINED when I had to stop with all form of exercise because of the pain, otherwise it would have been constant.

It's my first time at the forum, so I'm not sure if I can post some of the studies, photos, etc...

Description of the pain: In the lower back, it feels like when the dentist touches a nerve and you "fly" of pain, very strong pain. In the center of the back it has different connotations. Sometimes is like ants walking there, and sometimes feels more muscular, like cramps.

I know very well how I get the pain, so sometimes I can be without it for months, just avoiding every movement that I know that brings it back. But for that I had to avoid any form of lifting objects, even minimal, exercise, sitting for over an hour, walking or standing up for more than 15 minutes.

THAT'S NO LIFE!

Doctors tried accupunture also and nothing.

I'm very sensitive with beds too, most give me pain (and I have to travel often using hotel ones!!). Kneeling correctly for more tha 30 seconds gives me 2 days of back pain (timed!)

I don't have any pain in the legs.

Is just THE BIG PAIN in my lower back and usually the pain in the center of my back combined. The center one has different characteristics and intensities as I commented before.

What do you think?

Here is a segment of the latest study I did. I don't know the name but they inject you some "radioactive" stuff to make it.

It was, according to the "Radiologist", showing some trouble, I think he said, in the 9th vertebra, anyway where you see those marks. The doctor that ordered the study didn't give any importance to it...

Nothing came out about the lower back, according to this.

EACH IMAGE HAS THE DIRECT LINK UNDER TO SEE IT BIGGER:

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr326/d olorido1/DoloridoStudy3.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr326/d olorido1/DoloridoStudy4Small.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr326/d olorido1/DoloridoStudy5Small.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr326/d olorido1/DoloridoStudy6Small.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr326/d olorido1/DoloridoStudy7Small.jpg

http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr326/d olorido1/DoloridoStudyLastSmall.jpg

Thanks and sorry for the length and my bad English!

Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

rollar64

replied September 21st, 2008

Active User, very eHealthy

hi Dolorido one thing i think you should do is get copies of as many of the radiology reports as you can, radiologists are legally obliged to include relevant pathology in the reports. i am not suggesting you should post them here.

Doctors often brush things under the carpet, i would be surprised if your reports don't show something, this does not mean however that you are in need of an operation.

the first 2 pictures you posted are a bone scan, this will show if there is increased uptake of the substance they injected you with, it appears this is the case around your 7th or 8th thoracic vertebra, make sure that you have a thorough talk with your doctor about this,

One thing that commonly causes back pain is postural problems such as scoliosis or lordosis, how does your posture feel do your shoulders, and hips feel, and look level this is a controversial subject many in the medical community deny that it is the cause of problems others are more willing to believe, often unless these problems become severe they are ignored, i think you should try and get your posture evaluated if you have not had this done before.

Good luck Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied September 21st, 2008

rollar64,

Thanks for the answer!

In Germany the written reports go directly to the doctors. However, the radiologist (profesor in University) who did the tomography (student of mine in other subject) told me: "that they show nothing, you are better than me..." Pity I can not even ride a bike and he does karate, lift weights and stuff like that... Shocked

The radiologist who did the other study, "bone scan", as you called it, told me he saw that problem I mentioned, the black spot marked in the middle of the back and found nothing in the lower back, and thought that the doctor that ordered the scans would ask a further investigation of the area. However, when I met him, he disregarded the thing completly...and started talking about psicological things, etc WHICH, BELIEVE ME, CAN'T BE IN MY CASE.

Regarding your question about posture, my posture is not the best due to scoliosis in the middle of the back (where this spot is) and the neck, but I don't believe (what do I know) is the origin of the problem, and there I'm together with thw doctors that never even mentioned it as a possibility.

Besides I have to say, I have another student who is a young spine surgeon , he saw the tomography and find nothing. He said that he didn#t see any problem in my bones or discs (I'm not mentioning anything else, like nervs, etc because he didn't do it). In his opinion I'm fine, problem is I'M NOT FINE... Very Happy

Best regards,

Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied September 21st, 2008

Dear Rollar64,

I forgot to answer you to this:

Shoulders and hips feel fine, no problem, no pain, nothing.

Best,
Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

rollar64

replied September 23rd, 2008

Active User, very eHealthy

does your back fell stiff

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied September 23rd, 2008

Depends of what "feel stiff" means?

Let's start with the lower back, it's not that I'm stiff, at all, is that after I bend or whatever movement THEN I'LL get the pain, so it's not stiff unless you think in those terms because IF YOU MOVE YOU GET PAIN.

With the rest pf the back is similar, 'though the type of pain is different, as described in previous messages, feels more like "muscular pain" than "nerve pain".

Thanks for asking!

Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

rollar64

replied September 23rd, 2008

Active User, very eHealthy

hi again not trying to scare you or anything but try reading this i know your degree of scoliosis is fairly small it may not be the only thing wrong with you but it is the only thing they have found wrong with you. It's possible that the corrective surgey is not right for you.

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied September 23rd, 2008

Thanks!

Dolorido!

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied September 27th, 2008

Why, the previous? "Unavailable", has been like this for several days...

My post, the last one, said only "thanks"!

Best regards,

Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

NMT Therapist

replied September 27th, 2008

Interesting case

Dolorido,

You've got an interesting case going on there. Keep in mind that visual diagnostics tend to "over-invest" a bit, meaning that over 90% of MRI's show abnormality, even in individuals with no pain.

There can be a few "conventional" explanations for what you've got that need to be ruled out:

1. Trigger Points: the majority of chronic pain syndromes involve changes in soft tissues, and thus the more frequent trigger points are found. Especially when you only feel the problem when you bend or sit for long periods of time. This signals to me that there is a lack of blood flow moving in and out of the tissues, creating "ischemia", and when that is present, muscles fatigue quickly and are prone to trigger points. Have you seen a REAL good massage therapist that works primarily with back pain patients?

2. Visceral-somatic reflex: This is where there is an issue with an internal organ, which is reflexing to soft tissues. These types of pain patterns tend to be very inconsistent in terms of when you feel pain, and what causes it. Generally, there is no specific reason or pattern. The GI tract, kidneys, or even adrenal fatigue can cause this. What do your general chemistry labs show?

Before I continue, what are the answers to these 2 questions?

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied September 28th, 2008

Thanks a lot for your interesting answer.

No, I haven't seen a REAL GOOD massage therapist, or any massage therapist in the last time (none of the doctors I've seen prescribed this). In the past, about 7-8 years ago, when I've got this "shorts attacks" that lasted two days and then I was fine and continue my life LIKE NOTHING HAPPENED (meaning, lifting weights and absolutely every activity) I was prescribed and went to some massages.
I can not tell you if they did any good, because then, as I said the pain was gone before I got the massage (and even usually when I can get a free date to visit a doctor I had no more pain already) or IF THE MASSAGES WHERE DONE WELL, because I have no expertise in the field to confirm that.

Regarding the general chemistry labs, I've done one last week but haven't check the results yet (have to call). If I didn't understand wrong, the doctor that performed it wanted to see if I have any INFLAMATION in my body.

Any way another one is going to be performed next week related to something else.

Once again, thanks for your answer,

Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

guymontag

replied November 19th, 2008

you may want to think about your discs.

specifically annular tears within the disc giving you pain, due to leakage of chemical proteins that gives an adveres reaction to your nerve.

See www.chirogeek.com for information about annular tears.

For conclusive proof they can perform a discogram.

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied November 22nd, 2008

Thanks a lot "guymontag", I'm reading your page in the mentioned section ...

Best regards!

Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied April 29th, 2010

Guys, "MAGIC" happened.

I went to this doctor that suggested "thermocoagulation".

His diagnosis, if I'm correct was basically that I have degeneration of al the vertebras joints. The back was not too bad (not discs or nerves compromised) but this problem is very painful, as it proved the last 8 years (I could not even drive a bike!!).

Back to the THERMOCOAGULATION, basisically what they do is burn the nerves that send the pain information (they pull-off the pain-cable, so to say).

After less than half an hour the pain was gone forever...like I never had it after 8 year of "agony" and about 25 years that I had it, I don't understand why no previous doctor suggested before?...I visit dozens of them!

Even JUST RIGHT OUT OF THE PROCEDURE you can do anything! No warning, no prevention, nothing...

Two days after I went to a swingmingpool and the a gym (light) and felt fabulous.

I'm eternally thank to this man!

It's very strange, like I have a new body in terms not only of pain but new movements of all sort I perform that I wasn't even dare to EVEN think of.

Just wanted to share this with everybody!

Best regards and wish you no pain!

Did you find this post helpful?

oregonman

replied December 11th, 2012

Black spots on my Thoracic bone scan.

WOW! I am so happy I found this post. I have a very similar problem happening.
First off, when the pain started, it would just cause a sort of burning feeling in my thoracic back and cervical back. But then the pain started to get worse. So much so, that I had to spend most of my day lying down.
When it started, I was also very physically fit. I ran 3-5 miles 5 days a week. I also did weight training, benching 325-350lbs, western and thai boxing... A lot of core strengthening...
So, I thought maybe the exercise was causing it, so I quit working out, but the pain continued.
I saw a physiatrist who diagnosed me with 2 herniated discs, and sent me to physical therapy. The PT only made it worse. Let's not forget, I was very fit when this came on and the PT workout is what I already was doing. I started acupuncture, hung upside down on a inversion table and did traction. NOTHING happened.
Then I got an MRI, which showed no issues and no arthritis and very little degeneration for a 46yr old man.
So I added chiropractic to the mix. So now I was doing acupuncture 2x's a week, chiro 2x's a week, PT 2x's aweek and massage 1x a week. No change..
Then I went for a bone scan, believing it could be a ligament issue. They also did another round of xrays. I just had that read. I have bone spurs on my spine and two dark spots where I point to for the pain.Which for me is good news that they can finally SEE where I say the pain is.
I can not carry anything with out causing pain and head aches. The least amount of pain, is when I am lying down, and who wants that!
So, now I am going in for a CT scan to see if that tells us what the black spots are.There is also some talk about cancer, but my Dr already did a couple of blood tests for cancer and they were fine.
I will share your info with my Dr and see if that resonates with him about my back issues.
I too, am not able to work out at all. I can only work a few hours a day because of the pain. I have been chasing this down for about 8 months and am hopeful that this information could help me, and I can get back to my life.
Thanks and sorry for writing my life story. LOL

Did you find this post helpful?

simonrfox

replied June 20th, 2010

You back pain

HI It is interesting looking at your scans as they do not look normal. There is some suggestion in your scans that you may have lateral deviation in your spine. This may be due to muscle tightness or the structure of your spine.

My suggestion is to not try and look for a diagnosis, and start strengthen your deep abdominal muscles, it helped me

Did you find this post helpful?

Dolorido

replied July 7th, 2010

I don't have any more pain (at all) since what I described in the previous post.

Best,

Dolorido

Did you find this post helpful?


	Tags: lower back pain, back pain lower, accupunture, bench press, Exercise, cramps, ants, back pain exercise, back pain doctors, back pain sitting

Saving

Ask a doctor

Featured Experts

James Bogash
Chiropractic Medicine

eHealthPedia Articles

Back Pain

Back Pain Causes and Risk Factors

Back Pain Symptoms

Learn About Us

Get Help

Join In

Do More

We comply with the HONcode standard for trustworthy health
information:
verify here.

The site is not a replacement for professional medical opinion, examination, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your medical doctor or other qualified health professional before starting any new treatment or making any changes to existing treatment. Do not delay seeking or disregard medical advice based on information written by any author on this site. No health questions and information on eHealth Forum is regulated or evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and therefore the information should not be used to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease without the supervision of a medical doctor. Posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author, and not the administrators, moderators, or editorial staff and hence eHealth Forum and its principals will accept no liabilities or responsibilities for the statements made.
This page was last updated on May 24, 2013.
© 2010 eHealthForum.com