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Conditions and Diseases > Gout Forum > Long Gout attack
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Q: Long Gout attack
asked by: slinky on April 27th, 2009
New User
It will be my 4 week anniversary since my gout attack on April 1st. I have had times when it felt like it was going away, but now the swelling and the mass in my toe is just as big or bigger...

during the 1st week, doctor put me on colchacine and indo... and those drugs put me in the emergency room with crazy nausea. vomiting (blood) and horrid diarrhea. so, once i got out of emergency room, i stopped those drugs.

over the last few weeks I have tried doing... ACV, Baking Soda, cherries, lots of H2O, concentrated black cherry juice... and nothing really has worked, although seemed like the black cherry juice worked a little at 1st.

now. got an appointment this week with a rheumatologist. hopefully they will lead me to some answer as to why i am having such a long attack and what to do.

wonder if they will recommend surgery to remove?
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trv
replied on June 18th, 2009
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Seems like your visit to a rheumatologist was the best move.
Why not tell us how you got on?
Are you sure the attack, rather than niggles, lasted 4 weeks?
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slinky
replied on June 18th, 2009
New User
niggles?

the rheumatologist did a gout test (as obvious as it was that I had gout) which hurt like crap, and to no surprise of mine, it was gout. He then gave me the most painful shot in my life... gave me a steroid shot right into the the gout (my fiancee said i looked like i was going to pass out!). The Doc said... "You will hate me today, but love me tomorrow.

... and he was right. i despised him all day from the shot, but the next day was so much better as the swelling mostly went away. within a few days I was rid of all swelling and almost any pain from the gout.

now i am pain free... but i still have a little bump... the doctor said it was probably callous causing the bump.

just need to figure out how to keep it from happening again... and i DO NOT want to take medicine to prevent it. will continue to do natural things, and of course watch the eating habits (although, i think my gout as brought on by something other than dietary issues.. such as stress, sleep apnea, pollen, etc... or just plain hereditary since my bro has it)
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painfree
replied on June 19th, 2009
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If you have sleep apnea, it probably is the cause of your gout, so check it out. Overcoming sleep apnea not only will prevent future gout attacks, but also will greatly extend the length and quality of your life.
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trv
replied on June 20th, 2009
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Hell, Slinky- didn't mean to knock your pain , but my attacks usually run a couple of weeks when my body gets back on top -and this seems to be a typical time.
Niggles are fairly painful- but don't flare the immune system into troublesome behaviour for me.
Steroids are a mixed blessing working for only so many times before losing efficacy.
Sounds like a local anesthetic wouldn't have gone amiss in that jab btw- why not?
Too painful otherwise. Youch!
You are wise to be looking for solutions before needing one again.
From all I've seen , if you can't get your SUA below 6 mg/dL, and stay below that, you are always on the cusp of another attack -sooner or later.
I resist Allopurinol too, but may have to concede in the end -as I have just gone back on diuretics for serious high BP which demands this.
Taking Losarten (ARB)after Furorsemide (Loop Diuretic) with some few hours gap between is reputed to assist in lowering SUA 15% .
The diet is the only option left.
I've started to bake my own bread using Millet (alkaline)- tastes boring but with spelt,ground linseed , egg ,barley grass[pricey] makes a good mix ,as well as low gluten.
Apple cider vinegar seems all the rage but I find it hard to take, best in a smoothie.
Avoid beer and shellfish particularly- but limit protein- a handful of almonds is enough to keep you going but a spread of nuts and health food options can help in getting all the amino acids you need.If you want to get Gout free without drugs then you will have to work hard both in the wider lifestyle approach and in tailoring diet to your specific needs.
I haven't looked into sleep apnea yet- but it is becoming more noticeable in gout discussions.
Intuitively, I don't buy it - but the effects of ozygen starvation no doubt have many ramifications on our metabolism.
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painfree
replied on June 21st, 2009
Experienced User
trv - Although your intuition may not yet accept the effect of reduced oxygen in the blood on uric acid and gout, you may decide to change your mind after looking at these medical journal articles. They discuss this phenomenon from such diverse causes as insufficient oxygen supplied to critically ill patients, sleep apnea, moving to a much higher elevation, and breathing difficulties with chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD).

Grum, CM. "Cells in Crisis: Cellular Bioenergenics and Inadequate Oxygenation in the Intensive Care Unit," Chest 102(2), 1992, pp. 329-30.

Hasday JD, Grum CM. "Nocturnal Increase of Urinary Uric Acid:Creatine Ratio: a Biological Correlate of Sleep-Associated Hypoxemia," American Review of Respiratory Diseases 135, 1987, pp.534-38.

Plywaczewski, R., et al. "Hyperuricemia in Males with Obstructive Sleep Apnea (OSA)," Pneumonol Alergol Pol. 73(3) 2005, pp. 254-259.

Plywaczewski, R., et al. "Hyperuricemia in Females with Obstructive Sleep Apnea," Pneumonol Alergol Pol. 74(2) 2006, pp. 159-165.

Ruiz Garcia, A., et al, "Blood Uric Acid Levels in Patients with Sleep-Disordered Breathing." Archivos de Bronconeumologia 42 (10), October 2006, pp. 492-500.

McKeon, JL., et al. "Urinary Uric Acid with Obstructive Sleep Apnea," American Review of Respiratory Diseases 142 (1), 1990, pp. 8-13.

Saito, H., et al, "Tissue Hypoxia in Sleep Apnea Syndrome as Assessed by Uric Acid and Adenosine," Chest 121 (55), November 1, 2002, pp. 1686-1694.

Sahebjani, H., "Changes in Urinary Uric Acid Excretion in Obstructive Sleep Apnea Before and After Therapy with Nasal Continuous Positive Airway Pressure," Chest 113(6), 1998, pp. 1604-1608.

Du, X., et al. "Significance of the Changes of Urinary Uric Acid in OSAHS Before and After UPPP," Lin Chuang Er Bi Hou Ke Za Zhi 19(1Cool, Sept. 2005, pp. 826-827.

Garcia Panchon, E., et al, "Uric Acid and Its Relationship to Creatinine Levels and Hypoxia," Archivos de Bronconeumologia 43 (9), September 2007, p. 523.

Jefferson, JA, et al, "Hyperuricemia, hypertension, and proteinuria associated with high-altitude polycythemia," American Journal of Kidney Diseases 39 (6), June 2002, pp. 1135-1142.

Khokhar, N., "Hyperuricemia and Gout in Secondary Polycythemia Due to Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease," Journal of Rheumatology 7(1), Jan.-Feb. 1980, pp. 114-116.

Khokhar, N., "Gouty Arthritis in Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease," Archives of Internal Medicine 142(4), Apr. 1982, p. 838.
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trv
replied on June 21st, 2009
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Thanks Painfree- as I live alone how do I discover if I suffer from this, in the first place?
I do have disturbed sleep in 4 hour 'shifts' -but never get the feeling I'm struggling for breath, so maybe this is academic at the moment!
I always associate my Gout starting due to Thiazide use- over some years.
On stopping that, things improved ,but not enough just yet.
BP lowering is more important than Gout- as well as contributing to its reduction.
It's certainly harder to nail, in my case- there's nothing like Allopurinol to take care of the problem in one easy move.
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painfree
replied on June 22nd, 2009
Experienced User
Allopurinol can take care of the gout problem, but it does nothing to overcome sleep apnea.

One way to check for sleep apnea by yourself is to set up a tape recorder by your bedside to record the sounds you make during your sleep, and to listen to the tape when you are awake. If your hear snoring and then periods of no sound followed by an abrupt snort that restarts the snoring, that is the usual sound of sleep apnea. But with or without that, if you frequently awaken with a headache, that is a telltale sign. So is getting up several times during the night to go to the bathroom. If you find that there are periods during the day when you are uncontrollably sleepy, that's another telltale sign.

Primary care physicians should screen all their patients for sleep apnea, but almost none do. You may have to insist that your doctor arrange for you to be diagnosed by a sleep physician.

Good luck.
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trv
replied on June 22nd, 2009
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Thanks for the tip- I'll try it ,but my only tape recorder probably only does less than an hour.Maybe my laptop will do better on Sound record. Worth trying out!
Can you get a 'hit' on this apnea in the first period of sleeping?
I don't take AlloP btw- just know a bit about its' use , I'm taking too many meds for High BP at present, to want any more.
They can affect sleep patterns and give headaches without much effort, too!
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painfree
replied on June 23rd, 2009
Experienced User
The degree of apnea during sleep can vary significantly from night to night. Thus, testing over several nights will give much higher sensitivity for the detection of sleep apnea than testing for just one night.

High blood pressure can often be a consequence of sleep apnea. There are reported cases of high blood pressure receding after the sleep apnea has been overcome.
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slinky
replied on September 15th, 2009
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so, it's now 9/15 and I still have a bump where i had the gout attack back in April. I have no pain at all, but there is a small-medium bump (not as big as it was when i was having the gout attack.)

has anyone else ever had a bump remain even long after an attack? could this cause joint damage? should i look to get surgery to remove whatever is in there causing the bump?

thanks
jason
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