It was Dr Tiller who was killed. This is so sad, my condolences go out to his family, friends and co-workers.

OP, I think this will be a blow to the anti-abortion movement.

This is a terrible act by some extreme individuals. It makes no sense to advocate for life by taking it away.

If all pro-lifers were terrorists there wouldn't be any abortion clinics in the US because they'd all be bombed. The guy who killed Dr. Tiller should get the death penalty but I doubt he ever will because most places now don't give the death penalty or have outlawed it for their state.

Not ALL prolifers hate women just like not all pro-choicers hate babies, children and fetuses.

If Darkmoon thinks all pro-lifers are terrorists I wonder how she can stand to be around them (i.e. being in an abortion debate group).

It is very possible to be pro-choice and pro-abortion/anti-baby just as one can be pro-life and anti-abortion/anti-woman. HOWEVER most people on both sides are in the middle. Most people are not on either extreme. Just like there are pro-choicers who have signs or philosophies that say a woman should be able to abort a healthy baby in a healthy pregnancy at 9 months pregnantjust because she incredibly wants to there are people who think and voice doing harm to doctors who perform abortions will "save some babies". I think both of THOSE groups are WRONG, they have a right to express their sordid evil views but they are wrong.

Considering that the number of prolifers I've witnessed expressing orgasmic, malevolent glee over this man's assassination far outnumber the few who don't, I don't think it's an unfair conclusion to make that the prolife movement is filled with people that commit, advocate or make excuses for terrorist acts, violence, intimidation and vandalism to further their agenda. Even the ones that aren't creaming themselves over it have expressed some smug pleasure and I suspect the remaining few that haven't are simply congenial enough to be adept at hiding it.

Only a tiny number of "prolifers" out of all the abortion discussion forums I've visited since this event have expressed (presumably) sincere disgust over this, without drifting off into the "It's sad but he killed thousands!" or "He reaped what he sowed" trivializing BS. The rest of them seem to be engaged in a frenzy of satisfaction and many on Topix and ProlifeAmerica flat-out condone the shooting of Dr. Tiller.

You tell me, what could possibly give anyone the impression that the prolife movement condones terrorism? I mean, besides the foaming-at-the-mouth bloodlust so many of them are shouting out everywhere?

Don't kid yourself, so-called "prolifers" everywhere are cheering and those who aren't are the exception, not the rule. Some of them don't even think a pregnancy is high-risk enough until the woman is on her death bed and by then of course, it would be too late.

It isn't up to strangers to decide when a pregnancy is a high enough risk for each woman. Dr. Tiller took on a job that others were too afraid to do because women's lives and health are still considered expendable by a disturbing number of people. Try to save or help those women and one of the misogynists out there will snap and come to get you.

Perhaps prolifers that haven't reached this level of fanaticism should renounce those who have and drive them out of their movement, rather than deny they exist and blame the public for righteous anger when they commit their acts of violence.

"Justice". Yeah, right.

If we are going to go based on what is said in forums then oh boy most pro-choicers are very anti-baby, anti-uterus, and anti-Christ because most either flat out don't believe or deeply question his existence. A lot are also with loads of biases oagainst people who have children and think that NOT having an abortion while you're in college or young is irresponsible and will hold you back. Many pro-choicers are either single, divorced or separated and overall their best relationships with men tend to be sexual. Many pro-choicers would sleep with if they haven't already married men or are lesbians. I know all of us don't fit into those categories but if we are going to go based on who's most vocal online then you get the extremes on both sides.

Many pro-choicers have several children. Many pro-choicers go to church every Sunday. Many proc-choicers eat cornflakes for breakfast. Many pro-choicers are virgins. Many pro-choicers are vegetarian. Many pro-choicers have never bungee-jumped. Many pro-choicers have cats. Many pro-choicers vote Conservative. Many pro-choicers are men. Many pro-choicers have had sex in places other than motels. Many pro-choicers play Scrabble. Many pro-choicers have had abortions. Many pro-choicers ride motorbikes. Many pro-choicers drink tea, with or without milk. Many pro-choicers are gay. Many pro-choicers have had sex with their husbands. Many pro-choicers have never posted their views on the subject on an Internet forum.

So you have no problem whatsoever with a man getting gunned down in a church because he dared to help women? You don't see a problem with that? Do you really think that those of us who don't want children of our own are full of hatred for children? Do you really believe that anyone who supports a woman's right to choose when and if she reproduces is automatically a hater of families?

I'd REALLY be interested in seeing these stats because the last time I checked, I wasn't shooting people to death over my belief that I have a right to decide what happens in my own womb!!!!

Gods, what's wrong with you?

I am a MOTHER, I am PROCHOICE, I am NOT anti-baby or anti-uterus. I am NOT anti-christ. Whether I question his existence has LITTLE relevance to the abortion debate. So that point is MOOT. I have NO biases against people who have children, I think it is possible to become a mother at anytime, if the woman CHOOSES to become a mother. I would NEVER sleep with a married man, unless I am married to him (thus making him my husband)nor would I sleep with a woman, but I do NOT look down upon those that choose to do so. You mention that the most vocal of us on this forum fit into those categories but you FAILED to mention that NOT ALL OF US fit into EVERY category. And you only bring up the women, such as myself (who questions the existence of God but DOES NOT deny his existence is a possibility)and oop (who finds the thought of bearing a child, much less carrying one is vile, which she has every RIGHT to feel), among others, you bring us up because our views clash with yours. Using us as statistics is wrong and very catty/snarky of you. If you have ever noticed, I do not try and conglomerate all prolifers into one group, so why use me, solely based on my religious beliefs, as an example in your pretend statistics? I am truly pro-choice, and if you have ever read any of my posts you would know that I actually agree with you on a lot of points when it comes to abortion, the difference being, I do not use my BELIEFS to discount others' beliefs/experiences. I see ALL sides. I disagree with calling a fetus a ball of cells just as much as I disagree with calling it a baby, but I find both terms acceptable, because both terms are not factual but based upon one's emotional opinion. Which is perfectly okay. What I DON'T try to do, like you seem to do, is make everything black and white. You only need to go to the topic where you decided to nitpick through my reply to a post ( I believe it was called "Abortions and Difficulties in the Future", but "difficulties" was misspelled) and call me a liar for saying "Not all abortions are done for social reasons". I respect the prolife opinion when it is not used in an extreme, yet I have yet to see/hear a prochoicer act violently toward the prolife movement, nor have I seen/heard about prochoicers picketing abortion clinics, nor have I seen/heard about prochoicers bombing or mur***ing fellow prolifers. So, yes, I do tend to see that there are far more radical prolifers than radical prochoicers. And by the way, it is VERY possible to be prolife, have an abortion, be anti-baby and anti-woman, just as possible as it is to be prochoice, carry a baby and respect women. I actually know of a few prolifers that have had abortions but are vehemently against the procedure itself. And yes, they were prolife at the time of their abortions. One of them NEVER wants children but states that abortion is homicide and she knows she committed homicide but that God will forgive her as she has repented and is active in the prolife movement. The other had a condom oopsie, had an abortion to save her marriage and is still happy picketing at clinics. One other was not using protection, but had already decided that having children was not her thing, aborted and she still argues with me that being prochoice is wrong.
My point is, there are fallacies to both sides, but all in all, if you look at the violence, it is coming more from the prolife side, so it is perfectly acceptable to say that we get our point through with less violence than prolifers. It is also perfectly acceptable to say there are more prolife extremists (I am talking strictly about social extremes, such as homicides, bombings, violent picketings, hurling sexual insults at women walking into clinics, despite the fact that they might just be going in for a breast exam or a pap smear)than there are prochoice extremists. Yes, there are a few on both sides, but far more on the prolife side. And you are absolutely correct, alot of the violence stems from religion. However, a true christian ( so I am told) does not judge and knows no one sin is greater than another. Therein lies the problem. I have a right to my religion or lackthereof just as much as I have a right to my body. The religious prolife extremists do not see it this way. And they are the ones that cause most of the problems. A lot (but not all, it is possible to be a conservative christian prolifer who does not see violence as a way of making things better) of the less extreme prolifers are agnostic or even athiest, because religion is NOT a factor in their choosing to be prolife. Their choice is more based upon their personal view of life and the life of the fetus. And while I may argue with them too from time to time, it is easier to see their side because their views are not obstructed by religion.

I hate to be a critic mother, but could you possibly put paragraph breaks in your posts? The Great Wall of Text is hitting me for 10k points of damage and I assume prolifers you are arguing against probably just scroll past your posts.

LOL, I do put paragraph breaks in...for some reason, the stupid editor thingie takes them out. Sorry lol.

It is my opinion that the pro-life terrorists who bomb a clinic or commit homicide should be sent to Gitmo (if we still had gitmo) without trial and without a lawyer, along with the rest of the religious wackjobs and terrorists.

Oh, I hate when it does that! I've had that happen to me before too. Sorry!

I have come across many pro-choicers who show hate towards children. I've seen several who say that is their main reason they are pro-choice (which would mean they apparently want all women to abort their unborn offpsring). I've seen one even say she would rather save her dog from a fire than some "random kid." And pro-choicers who think abortion is funny. They'll even make poems about it. I've seen racist pro-choicers. I've seen igorant pro-choicers. I've seen lying pro-choicers. I've seen pro-choicers who admitted to showing aggressivness towards pro-lifers.

Pro-choicers are not better than pro-lifers. No side is better than the other. There are radicals on both sides.

Pro-lifers believe fetuses are human beings. Late-term abortions kill very developed fetuses. If Tiller also killed the born, I'm sure you'd hate him, too.

Please read this article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/200 9/jun/11/first-person-abortion-women-famil y

The better question is what is wrong with you? Show me IN QUOTES where I said anything condoning the death of Dr. Tiller and then you have a point. Until then keep your irrational anger to yourself.

You knwo this man has a FAMILY a FAMILY and they are grieving HIM not the abortion cause HIM and all many of you can think about is what it does for yout CAUSE. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT PICTURE!!?? And you wonder why the family shut the clinic doors int he midst of it all. How many of you have sent ANYTHING to his family? A letter sympathy condolences? I'm VERY pro death penalty and murderers like Scott Roeder should be on death row right now but our laws grant him a nice cushy trial and plenty of appeals. Thing is a lot of the anti-death penalty people are also pro-choice, I'm betting there will be lots of squabbles over him out.

Be REAL and show me in THIS quote below where I said anything about "ALL" pro-choicers? You can't and you wont because you're too upset about a stranger's death whose family's grief YOU WILL NEVER EVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND. My sympathy is with his family, not either movement because HIS FAMILY suffered the biggest loss of all and there is NOTHING YOU CAN EVER SAY to make his death all about you and NOT about his family!

WHat is wrong with you? DO you really think my experience with debating this issue is left solely on you and one other poster????? Unless you fit into every single categroy by yourself then you have no grounds to discuss this as being about you. There are other people tons of them who have said OUTRIGHT that they do not believe in God on THIS forum but you're so stuck on thinking everything I type is about you that you can't see that. I didnt bother reading past the first couple of lines.

I think every senseless murderer should get the death penalty when its been proven beyond all doubt they did the crime, like murdering someone in a church full of witnesses or on tape. Why waste money on housing, feeding, and providing medical care for them when they are and will always be a threat of society so long as they live and breathe?