LOL!!!

Once again, LOL!!!
But seriously, I think you mean embryo, and it is an embryo until the 10th week of pregnancy, 8th week of development.


I think most women notice a MISSED PERIOD which occurs when an embryo is 2 weeks old.

YOU can consider it a child at any point you like. That does not make it so. Technically a "child" is a born entity.
WRONG. The VAST majority of abortions occur BEFORE it becomes a fetus, when it is an embryo.
Many women get pregnant while using birth control.


DOUBLE LOL!!!


???

Hrm...this bus was supposed to drop me off at the cinema but it seems to have taken a wrong turn and dumped me at the mental ward instead.

I'm really glad that you find all of this so amusing instead of stating facts that you have found, aochriss. If you cannot give any valid insight and your p.o.v then stay off debate forums. And I love that you used my quotes, it just makes more people read them. That happens to be my opinion whether you agree or not. Yes, embryo not fetus. I appologize for not using the correct medical term in that ONE particular sentence. But I meant it in every other one. Does that make you feel any better? Any how would that "word" change any of the points I have made?

Many women get pregnant off of birth control because it is misused. Of course you have to be smart enough to know that. I have misused my bc before but I do not have a problem with unitended pregnancy. I know that it was my actions that caused this, so I must be responsible. If I really didn't want children, there are plenty of options. The depo shot is the easiest, carefree, worry free way of making sure you don't have any slip ups. Periods are known to even cease on the shot! And all of this is reversable so if you want children later, just stop taking it.

So if you don't want to get pregnant, taking the pill religiously shouldn't be a problem, nor the ring, nor the shot, nor the implant. Is abortion an effective method of birth control? If it is, lets think about what multiple abortions can do to a womans' body. It could be argued that multiple births could do the same damage... and I'll let you argue that since you love quotes =)

And you are absolutey incorrect about when abortions occur. Do you know how I know? My family member works for the CDC and I once knew an abortionist. I have read many abortionist views on the subject also. While many do not agree with abortion they feel that if it is going to happen anyways, they will help it be carried out safely.

And I do know females who have had abortions and I do not judge them. That is something they will have to live with all their lives. But I do feel that if you cannot homicide a 47 yr old man then what gives us the right to homicide a child? Or embryo as you say, fetus I say because it is usually carried out AFTER 8 weeks...

And yes, I consider a child to be the same as an embryo, a fetus. And why shouldn't I? Technically they are all life forms. Everything may be forming in the womb and may not look human but even after the unborn child is delivered, it is still developing.

And yes, at 4 weeks we miss a period. What was your point? Many women don't even pay attention to their period. They wouldn't care if it showed up or not. That's why I said you have to be checking for symptoms. If your periods are irregular, which many are (point in using birth control) then how would you even know you missed it? Go and talk to women about their cycles. Not everyone keeps up with it, just like not everyone takes their bc like recommended, which causes unintended pregnancies.

So do you think after 8 weeks, abortion is still fine? Is there even a point when you believe that is is not okay? Would it be fine at 20 weeks ? Asking a serious question... I have never heard a cut off period by a pro-choice or pro-abortionist.

And if you know you don't want to have children then why not take the necessary precautions? Then this issue might not be such a huge problem.

I'm still not quite understanding what is so wrong with adoption? The centers are not overflowing with millions of unadoptable babies. There are good people who will gladly take them if you are not responsible enough (exactly why the female is pregnant in the first place)

And the biggest arguement of all, why not take Plan B??? They give it out like candy! Its just a double dose of birth control. If you are pregnant the hormones won't hurt nor abort the baby...so taking it right after should be no problem if you are worried about pregnancy. And this could be debated too but after researching Plan B, I have found it not to be abortion. www.gotoplanb.com

And aocriss, if you're so willing to have an abortion, are you part of those "statistics" you so readily gave me in the previous post? Are you on welfare? Crackhead? Do you have an abusive situation?

Or do you just think having a baby will mess up your goals like I stated?

Talk to some of the women who've had them. Ask them why they did it. And then come back and let us all know your consensus.

If there was a 47 year old man living inside my uterus, you'd better believe he'd be a legitimate target for homicide. Why should someone's disgusting implanted sperm-omelette be any different? If you want to make analogies like that, you'd be be advised to think them through!



Because it involves staying pregnant , having your insides taken over by a creature that you don't want there, sucking the nutrients out of your body, and destroying your existence, then ripping up your cootie when it pops out. You like research, go and have a look for what the physical effects on a woman of pregnancy and childbirth are. Not pretty.




Sorry, your point is....? That nice, middle-class educated women should be forced to give birth? That you see no point in existence for a woman except as a reproductive machine? Do you know how ignorant you come across?

Incidentally, where did you get this bollocks? Please cite detailed sources of your so-callled statistics.

For instance, at guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3422602.html


Perspectives on Sexual and Reproductive Health
Volume 34, Number 5, September/October 2002
Patterns in the Socioeconomic Characteristics of Women Obtaining Abortions in 2000-2001
By Rachel K. Jones, Jacqueline E. Darroch and Stanley K. Henshaw

www.abort73.com

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/s s5407a1.htm

47 year old in your uterus? Please grow up.

And why hasn't anyone mentioned Plan B? Still no reason to say "Why should someone's disgusting implanted sperm-omelette be any different?" When it can all easily be solved within 72 hrs...

What happened to quoting all of my points again? And you surely did not answer my questions.=)

And why do you hang out on this website? Your point has never gotten across, I see no P.O.V. from your side. Give me a good debate!

And as for you "opoopoo"??? since when did forums make you have a works cited page? If you read my post I said go to CDC website... Is that not explaing where I got the info? Go type it in. You spent half the time writing that when you could have just easily gave me your quote and source. Genius. Its called summarize and put in layman's terms. Would you like for me to tell you the book? Its called, Why I Am An Abortion Doctor. Go type that in too.

And I CLEARLY said talk to some women because there are plenty of reasons... Why you quoted that aocriss, makes no sense.???

That's a bit dramatic don't you think? Amusing way to put gestation. I'm glad you realize that you did that to your mother, or crazy lady that carried a life sucking alien around L0L! Plan B, Plan B, Depo, Nuva, Mini Pill, The Pill, Condom, Barrier Method...STERILIZATION





When did I say this? I'm still sure I clearly state all women can take Plan B. Who's forcing you to do anything? Who forced you to crawl on top of a guy without a condom? Are you a rape victim? How is ignorance knowing about ALL of the backup methods in this world? So who are you really referring to? I know how NOT to get pregnant...

How about this, lets take away age limits on tubal litigation. That way everyone that is so bent on not having "the sperm donors" baby (I mean you're the fool for sleeping with someone you don't want a baby by) can have permant birth control. No worries!!!=)

Oh, I specifically asked you to argue the whole live birth effects vs. abortion complications. I could care less what happens to a woman who gets an abortion. And how many women that pass away from childbirth really didn't want that baby in the first place? I think people are confused on that topic. Complications can occur but they were TRYING to have a baby out of their OWN will. Not forced to do it. No doctor should or would ever force a woman to have a baby if they knew it would destroy her life. That's what CVS testing is for. And then it's up to her...But if its ectopic, it is terminated anyways and so forth... Same goes for women who chose to terminate. Complications can arise, they chose to put themselves at risk after failing to use every method possible to prevent pregnancy.

Are the schools off for the Easter hols, or something?

"it is usually carried out AFTER 8 weeks..."


Please provide proof.

I had an abortion because I didn't want to be pregnant. I don't care what you consider the microscopic tissue to be, I didn't want to be pregnant. It's my body, and nobody will ever force me through a pregnancy against my will.

You made the comparison, dear:


I was pointing out that anyone or anything penetrating my body against my will was a legitimate target. If a 47 year old man doesn't have the right to climb inside me against my will (and he doesn't), then neither does a fetus.



That is fine if you happen to have had unprotected sex (knowingly). Many unwanted pregnancies occur while using contraception. Women have every right to abort an unwanted pregnancy.



It would help if you made a coherent point. Have you actually read all the threads on this site?



If you are citing statistics, it is only reasonable to provide the source. If you are giving your opinion, rant away. I provided factual data countering your ill-informed rant.

Also, please learn to quote accurately.

Not everyone can take birth control, sterilization is not elective and even if you fight for it, you probably wont get one unless you had "x" amount of kids or are "x" years old. Some people require vital medications in their life besides the pill but even vitamins(some) can lessen the effectiveness of the pill.

My aunt is infertile because of depo provera but if you actually knew that the depo can actually cause serious side effects you would be very careful, it can cause anxiety/depression mood sings etc... Its something you need to talk to your dr about.

My solution is fund research to provide us with a 100% effective form of birth control and I won't have an abortion.

SO you began life as a "disgusting implanted sperm-omlette? Okie dokie

First off let me begin by letting abortionists know one minor detail that you have overlooked... for some odd reason you have it set in your mind that anti-abortionists care about what you do with your life and want to make life a living hell for you. This is not about you. No one is forcing you to do anything. It's legal!!! Duh!

See here comes the good part, a person can drink as much alcohol as they please. Til your liver rots. It's their right, it's what they choose to do. As long as this does not interfere with someone else's well-being (like you getting behind the wheel) who cares? Your body. Your decision. You can smoke cigarettes until your lungs turn black and you develop cancer. Your body, your decision. As long as your second hand smoke doesn't harm anyone, who cares? I speak for myself when I say I really don't care what happens to you and your body. AS LONG AS IT IS NOT HARMING ANOTHER. My point is there is someone else being harmed when you so blatantly ignore life just to prove some irrelevant point, you just don't care, or when it benefits you in some way. I'm pretty sure that you knew, being a person who hopefully is educated, that when you let that man climb on you without a condom that you could possibly get pregnant. Of course you knew! It's the simple fact that you didn't care. You knew that if you did get pregnant, there was an easily solution. Instead taking responsibility for you actions, you ended it. Instead of calming down your hormones and thinking about the situation, you let it happen.

Let me also clarify another thing again, I could care less what someone has to say about grammar. The rules of this website say something about not advertising another website or company. I didn't put the web address because IT IS AGAINST THE RULES. I got in trouble just for citing a pregnancy website. So if you want to know what I'm talking about, nor believe what I say, YOU GO DO THE RESEARCH and stop spouting off about citing as if this is some REAL scientific forum or debate. I wanted to know why one woman one this board believed what she believed. And I got that answer. So if I am not directing a question to you please do not feel free to add in your unwanted opinion. Thank you. Next time read carefully... And Phenicks I really don't know, nor want to understand what your point was at all. Ignorance? By asking you to ask other women why they had abortions? Isn't that what you would want to find out? As people we question everything. It helps you get a better understanding of whom you are dealing with. And I definitely said YOU do the research on child birth vs. abortion complications because I do not have sympathy for any woman who opts for an abortion. Plain and simple.

I love my rights and freedoms as a women. I love that this country can provide that. I just wish morals and ethics would come back.

To diamondsz (please note whom I am referring to) You are absolutely correct on some points. But just think if many of these protesters from both sides would put half as much effort and energy into making more companies find a solution, there wouldn't be this debate happening before us! If everyone posting on this board would write letters with there "oh so important opinions" maybe we could have a 100% effective form of BC. I mean 99.9% effective just isn't good enough right? With all the women in this world taking them correctly and still getting pregnant...

And it was definitely my point by making these companies let us have tubal litigations when we want to. Now that is our right because it is not harming anyone else. And I'm sorry for your aunt if that is not what she intended in the first place but to these women, I'm sure they won't my being infertile after coming off Depo.

Implanon and Depo and Lybrel and Mirena are out there to be used. So use it!

Anywho I have made my voice clear to companies and I also survey women. Which is what I was trying to do here. But so many of these women on this board are so used to being attacked and judged that they didn't see my questioning for what it was. All you could see was my opinion on whether this was this or whatever... Yes I am going to state my opinion but I want to know the other side.

If you think I cared the least bit about your well-being, since you can so easily harm another, then I'm sorry you are wrong. I care about the life-form and its rights. I am looking for ways to help people not even enter into these situations. I want it not only to be illegal but morally wrong. The same as murdering an infant, adult, elderly...

Yes, abortion has been around a long time, but it doesn't mean it can't change. With all of the research, debates, etc, going on, one day there will be an answer. If it is the answer I believe to be, could you live with knowing what you have done? And if its the answer you are searching for, THANK GOODNESS for it too. You're all acting as if I want it to be true so you can all go to hell. Not the case. I don't care where you go. I just want to at least know that you're not some spineless inhumane sea creature and that we are not morally inept.

Those are my thoughts. Take it or leave it. Agree to disagree. Pull the statements apart and quote. Whatever you please. I cannot even conduct any type of survey on this forum because you all have it in your mind that I am the grim-reaper here to sentence you...

Hopefully you will hear from me again and on that day we will rejoice because I have found the answer. =)

I'm sorry, but I will not answer any questions to any survey done by a woman who obviously does not care the least bit about MY well-being. Or a woman who wants to take away the right to a safe and sterile abortion. I may not like abortion (and I don't) but it is NOT my place to go telling some other woman what she can or cannot do with her body. YOU seem to be misinformed about pro-choice. We don't just support abortion rights, we support a woman in ALL of her options. Including the right to carry a pregnancy to term, adoption, the right to safe and effective birth control, and hopefully soon, the right to elective sterilization WITHOUT any prerequisits, such as having x amount of children or being x years old (with the exception of minors). Pro-choice does not mean you HAVE to have an abortion or that pro-choicers like abortion. Pro-choice does NOT mean we don't care about the "life-form". But we recognize it is NOT our body that is being "used".
Not every woman who has had an abortion wants to remain childless. Not every woman who is on birth control wants to be infertile for the rest of their lives.

I suggest you do a bit of research on when CVS testing is actually used. It is NOT a common procedure and only used if the woman has genetic problems or if she is over a certian age or if the doctor feels there may be something wrong with the fetus. It is NOT used to diagnose problems with the WOMAN, it is used to diagnose problems with the EMBRYO/EARLY FETUS(I say eary fetus because CVS testing is usually done between weeks 5-10 of pregnancy, after that, you usually wait until ultrasounds show fetal abnormalities and then have an amniocentesis), therefore her having a CVS would NOT prevent her life from being in danger if complications with HER body were to form.
Many women who choose abortion are MARRIED. So, yeah, sex is a part of the whole marriage thing. Not every woman CAN take hormonal birth control, such as msrosie and myself(just found that out a week ago, the birth control I was using to help regulate my period was actually dangerously interfering with an already existing medical problem), not every woman is eligible for a tubal ( I was actually lucky that I was able to get one myself, with me being so young, I was only able to get a tubal because the risks of more future preterm pregnancies and my medical conditions outweight the so-called risks of a tubal), not every woman is educated in contraceptive means, or even sex at all. Not every woman can take Plan B because it is also hormones. Hardly any women use abortions as a means of birth control. In fact, most women who have abortions were either on some type of birth control or were not educated in proper birth control (ie, the poor and teenage girls, who have little to no access to birth control or sex education)

To sum this up, abortion (for the most part, not including medically necessary ones or those that are done due to incest/rape/sexual assault)is about want. So is having children. They are both WANTS, not needs. Since wanting to have a child cannot be right nor wrong, it is rather selfish, then abortion cannot be right or wrong because, it, too, in most cases is a WANT and is selfish. By the way, morals vary. No moral is set in stone. We, as people were given the right to free will and free thinking. So what is right in your eyes may not be right in mine. What is right in my eyes may not be right in yours. Just like religion cannot be forced upon a person, your personal morals cannot be forced upon another free-thinker.

P.S. You should REALLY take a step back and ask yourself this: Why is it okay for certian women to abort (ie, they have been raped, or there is a fetal abnormality or the mother's life is in danger)but NOT okay for a woman who missed a pill or miscalculated her ovulation days or who had a condom break to abort? In all scenarios, there is a "life form" being terminated. You cannot say its okay for one type of abortion but not another. The results are still the same, a fetus or embryo is being killed. Thus, proving pro-life is NOT about the fetus, it is about the manner in which the fetus was concieved.So much for being pro-life eh?

Who said anything about pro-choice? I know what pro-choice, pro-life, pro-abortion, and anti-abortion believe sweety... I was talking to women who have HAD an abortion. Not if you believe in it because I really don't care if you do support or do not. I wanted the opinion of a woman who has had one and would do it again in a heartbeat. I wanted to know why. That was my survey and like I stated before, I HAVE THE ANSWER. I don't need yours. If you believe in it congratulations to you. If you feel it is safe and sterile, that's relative. Why should I care about a person's well-being if they don't even care about the person within themselves well-being? Where are the rules that tell me in a survey I have to have sympathy for my participants. I respect their opinions only and that they can stand up for what they believe in.

I never said it was okay for rape victims to abort and so forth. If you're going to use what I said, use it correctly. Do not misinterpret what I have been saying on this forum. I cannot believe you "motherofhigh...whatever" would jump in and not have a dammed clue as to what you are talking about. Did you read anything correctly? I am not surveying pro-choice at all. And I said I wouldn't survey on here after I was attacked after I posted the first discussion. I stated my opinions and things i had learned on my discovery of why women wanted to abort. After I was attacked I stated I don't want the opinions of these women anymore.

You are saying many women who choose abortion are married. Then you say they are poor or uneducated teenagers? Hmmm...

And yes some women cannot take SOME birth control methods. If you are allergic, etc to hormones there are NON-HORMONAL BC. Like umm the COPPER IUD. The point is there are many options out there that can be discussed with your doctor BEFORE you even conceive.

And no I really don't care what happens afterwards. Does much happen to a woman after an abortion? No. Is anything wrong with any lady on the board who has had an abortion? Most likely no but don't care. All I wondered was why...

So please READ CAREFULLY, here's my quote of myself:



Meaning CVS testing would help to see if the FETUS had a defect, thus helping the mother/family/doctor to decide whether or not the risk of keeping the baby would hurt the mother's life. If she wants to die for her child so be it. If she doesn't so be it. I know what CVS testing is for hun, but can you read??? This was all about complications that live births and abortions could both have.

I really need for people to READ, my last post should not have offended not a soul. I am very tired of misinterpretations for lack of your understanding. I have no clue where your whole argument came from "motherof..." What could you possibly be telling me that I don't already know, besides a few of your pointless paragraphs where you babble?

Education of course is key... what do you think sex/health educators are out there trying to do? What do you think my purpose was writing about different methods of BC was? For my OWN good?

In other words, you have just called women who get abortions, poor and uneducated. I thought these were married women like you said? These women know exactly what they are doing so don't pass out sympathy cards. Let's just be honest. They want what they want; an easy fix.

And you may not like abortions but how are you contributing to solving that problem? I personally know people who have had them. They were educated and neither poor.

Not everyone wants children and not everyone is fit to be a parent. i understand this. That's why I said and made the arguments that I wrote. I haven't judged anyone on this board. I wrote several times that what you do with your body is up to you as long as it doesn't harm another. And I truly believe that and always will.

P.S. Thanks for your lesson on morals...Of course what is right in your eyes may not be right in my eyes. But harming another person is immoral, right? Shouldn't it be immoral for anyone to do? (unless of course you are criminally insane)