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If People Really Believed Embryos Were People (Page 1)

The Scourge: Moral Implications of
Natural Embryo Loss

The Scourge struck swiftly and brutally. This terrifying new
disease, more deadly than any before it, left no part of the
world untouched. From the poorest countries in Africa to the
richest countries of the West, it killed with equal, horrifying,
efficiency. It struck quickly, killing most of its victims within a
few weeks of onset, and silently, for there were no detectable
symptoms prior to death. Before the Scourge, the global death
rate was 55 million per annum. That is, all causes of death—old
age, war, murder, disease, and so on—conspired to take 55
million lives each year. The Scourge changed this dramatically.
It alone killed more than 200 million people every year. From
that time on, more than three quarters of the deaths each year
were due to the Scourge. Where life expectancy in the West
had risen steadily over the past century to 78 years, it had
now dropped to just 29. Perhaps worst of all, the effects of the
Scourge were not felt equally across all members of society.
It killed only the very young and innocent—those who were
completely powerless to prevent it.
Compared with the Scourge, all other problems seemed
insignificant. The Scourge was the major issue of the age, and
there was an overwhelming obligation on society to fight it.
Other projects had to be put on hold and a major international
effort directed towards loosening the Scourge’s grip upon
humanity.


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replied February 27th, 2009
Experienced User
I don't imagine I'm all alone when I say, "uhhh, what?" I've read your post twice, looked up the Scourge on the internet, and I'm still confused. Is this some kind of symbolism thing because despite my literary genius, I've never been much on the metaphorical.
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replied February 27th, 2009
Experienced User
Ohhhh, now I get it! That's actually a very moving and powerful piece of work, once the message sets in. You're a good writer. Unfortunately (no wait, fortunately) embryos are NOT considered people. They just don't meet all of the qualifications. They fall just short, which makes a lot of folks unhappy, but I don't consider them people. Human, yes. Beings, no.
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replied February 28th, 2009
Active User, very eHealthy
You might want to dumb it down a bit. The brilliance of your post will be lost on the more simple population of pro-fetal-lifers".
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replied March 2nd, 2009
Active User, very eHealthy
Aochriss, did YOU write this or are you claiming it as your own? It seems some people actually believe you wrote this. You should site the actual writer of this article.
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replied March 2nd, 2009
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Darkmoon wrote:
You might want to dumb it down a bit. The brilliance of your post will be lost on the more simple population of pro-fetal-lifers".

I guess if a pro-choicer doesn't get it right away, it's okay. But, pro-lifers are just dumb if they don't. You aren't capable of making posts without insulting pro-lifers are you?
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replied March 13th, 2009
Extremely eHealthy
I did not write this. I included a link but it is gone. I'll try to find it again.
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replied March 13th, 2009
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replied March 13th, 2009
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NeutralUsername wrote:
Darkmoon wrote:
You might want to dumb it down a bit. The brilliance of your post will be lost on the more simple population of pro-fetal-lifers".

I guess if a pro-choicer doesn't get it right away, it's okay. But, pro-lifers are just dumb if they don't. You aren't capable of making posts without insulting pro-lifers are you?


Considering that some prolifers are incapable of debating without calling all prochoicers stupid or accusing all prochoice women of being loose, I feel justified in questioning the intelligence of a certain portion of the prolife crowd. At least I didn't refer to the lot of you as lacking in intelligence, which is more than I can say for those of your side that don't return the courtesy (which you of course fail to chew out the way you ride MY case).

How about you shake that finger at some of the people on your side, too? I have yet to see you get irate at them when they come in here saying things like; "You prochoicers are stupid for thinking abortion's okay" and "all you prochoice women should keep your legs closed!"

But I suppose it's A-okay with you for prolifers to come in here assuming-nay, insisting that prochoice women are wicked, stupid sex addicts that spend their lives from puberty 'till menopause purposely getting pregnant just to abort.

I used to just ignore the many sexists and a-holes I'd run into on the prolife side but after experiencing years of insults, accusations and ridiculous blanket statements leveled at myself, prochoicers and females in general, I stopped worrying about hurting someone's feelings when I call out stupidity and sexism and started sticking up for myself and my fellow prochoicers and women.

Your complaints will hold water when you're equally condemning of people on your side that throw insults. All I ever see you do is whine when prochoicers say the slightest negative thing about any prolifer and make excuses for prolifer behavior or demand that prochoicers just take it without retaliation.
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Users who thank Darkmoon for this post: motherofhighspiritedones 

replied March 16th, 2009
Extremely eHealthy
The point is, no one believes embryos are people, or even as important as people.
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replied March 16th, 2009
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Darkmoon wrote:
NeutralUsername wrote:
Darkmoon wrote:
You might want to dumb it down a bit. The brilliance of your post will be lost on the more simple population of pro-fetal-lifers".

I guess if a pro-choicer doesn't get it right away, it's okay. But, pro-lifers are just dumb if they don't. You aren't capable of making posts without insulting pro-lifers are you?


Considering that some prolifers are incapable of debating without calling all prochoicers stupid or accusing all prochoice women of being loose, I feel justified in questioning the intelligence of a certain portion of the prolife crowd. At least I didn't refer to the lot of you as lacking in intelligence, which is more than I can say for those of your side that don't return the courtesy (which you of course fail to chew out the way you ride MY case).

How about you shake that finger at some of the people on your side, too? I have yet to see you get irate at them when they come in here saying things like; "You prochoicers are stupid for thinking abortion's okay" and "all you prochoice women should keep your legs closed!"

But I suppose it's A-okay with you for prolifers to come in here assuming-nay, insisting that prochoice women are wicked, stupid sex addicts that spend their lives from puberty 'till menopause purposely getting pregnant just to abort.

I used to just ignore the many sexists and a-holes I'd run into on the prolife side but after experiencing years of insults, accusations and ridiculous blanket statements leveled at myself, prochoicers and females in general, I stopped worrying about hurting someone's feelings when I call out stupidity and sexism and started sticking up for myself and my fellow prochoicers and women.

Your complaints will hold water when you're equally condemning of people on your side that throw insults. All I ever see you do is whine when prochoicers say the slightest negative thing about any prolifer and make excuses for prolifer behavior or demand that prochoicers just take it without retaliation.


"All I ever see you do is whine when prochoicers say the slightest negative thing about any prolifer and make excuses for prolifer behavior or demand that prochoicers just take it without retaliation."

Really? I do that? You must have me mixed up with someone else. Well, I don't expect much from someone who thinks all pro-lifers are alike. You would "forget" any pro-lifer whose views aren't what you expect.

Show me where I have defended DIRECTLY rude insults or nasty comments about pro-choicers in this forum. Show me where I said I expect pro-choicers to just take rudeness. Heck, even show me where I even name-call out of the blue. Or make generalizations about pro-choicers. Wait. YOU CAN'T.
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replied March 16th, 2009
Experienced User
All right, break it up people! A person who's mature and intelligent enough to contemplate the moral implications of abortion should (hopefully) be mature and intelligent enough to discuss the matter without being belligerent or hateful. I think it's tragic that this issue is one of the few topics that send women tearing at each other's throats.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions. THAT is the basis of my pro-choice beliefs, not that it's OK to kill the unborn. I have nothing but admiration for people who respect the sanctity of human life. I'm particularly in awe of those who can do so without passing judgement on others. As much as I would like to feel the same way, I understand that there are worse fates for a child than death before awareness.

Does anyone else notice that men don't get involved in these discussions so deeply? For once, they've proven themselves wiser than us by realizing that it's not their place to tell someone else what to do with their bodies. Women should work together (no matter what their beliefs) to make the world a sweeter, gentler place. We should not engage in the distinctly masculine art of bullying and converting those who don't share the same beliefs.
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replied March 16th, 2009
Active User, very eHealthy
Damian,
Actually I've seen far more male prolifers than females. On the flipside, there seems to be a shortage of male prochoicers in comparison. Men aren't "wiser" and there is nothing foolish about women defending the right to their own medical and reproductive decision. Perhaps the lower ratio of men you're witnessing has something to do with the fact that THEY aren't the ones that have to worry about pregnancy and birth. It's like you'll find fewer gay rights advocates amongst the straight crowd because it's really only their problem if they choose for it to be.

Still, I disagree that males don't get involved in the abortion debate. Over half of our opposition to bodily rights comes from males.

And NUN,
you harp on me every time I say anything negative about any prolifers and NO, I do NOT say I think they are all this way. You refuse to see it and I'm tired of your lecturing every time I point out the stupidity of certain groups of prolifers. I never said you "defend" them. I said you never chastise them the way you do prochoicers that say something you feel is rude.

You may not like hearing about it but it doesn't change the fact that there are a number of prolifers on the internet that introduce themselves by making blanket insults and generalizations about prochoicers...female prochoicers in particular.
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replied March 16th, 2009
Active User, very eHealthy
Darkmoon wrote:
Damian,
Actually I've seen far more male prolifers than females. On the flipside, there seems to be a shortage of male prochoicers in comparison. Men aren't "wiser" and there is nothing foolish about women defending the right to their own medical and reproductive decision. Perhaps the lower ratio of men you're witnessing has something to do with the fact that THEY aren't the ones that have to worry about pregnancy and birth. It's like you'll find fewer gay rights advocates amongst the straight crowd because it's really only their problem if they choose for it to be.

Still, I disagree that males don't get involved in the abortion debate. Over half of our opposition to bodily rights comes from males.

And NUN,
you harp on me every time I say anything negative about any prolifers and NO, I do NOT say I think they are all this way. You refuse to see it and I'm tired of your lecturing every time I point out the stupidity of certain groups of prolifers. I never said you "defend" them. I said you never chastise them the way you do prochoicers that say something you feel is rude.

You may not like hearing about it but it doesn't change the fact that there are a number of prolifers on the internet that introduce themselves by making blanket insults and generalizations about prochoicers...female prochoicers in particular.


Let me remind you of what you said about me:

"All I ever see you do is whine when prochoicers say the slightest negative thing about any prolifer and make excuses for prolifer behavior or demand that prochoicers just take it without retaliation."


So, provide proof of this. This IS a debate group. Shouldn't you be able to back up your claims?
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replied March 16th, 2009
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Look, don't make me get the yardstick out! Smile
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replied March 17th, 2009
Active User, very eHealthy
NeutralUsername wrote:


Let me remind you of what you said about me:

"All I ever see you do is whine when prochoicers say the slightest negative thing about any prolifer and make excuses for prolifer behavior or demand that prochoicers just take it without retaliation."


So, provide proof of this. This IS a debate group. Shouldn't you be able to back up your claims?


Sure. Look right here in this thread at the argument we're having. There's one example of proof right there.
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replied March 17th, 2009
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*giving DarkMoon a sharp rap on the knuckles* I said cut it out! LOL

On a more serious note, don't keep rising to the bait. NUN has a tendency to be confrontational with everyone who isn't pro-life, and you're just feeding his/her need for conflict. Let it go. That's far more of a stinging retort that to keep up the interplay.
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replied March 17th, 2009
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DamianaRaven wrote:
*giving DarkMoon a sharp rap on the knuckles* I said cut it out! LOL

On a more serious note, don't keep rising to the bait. NUN has a tendency to be confrontational with everyone who isn't pro-life, and you're just feeding his/her need for conflict. Let it go. That's far more of a stinging retort that to keep up the interplay.


When you've had a bad its funs sometimes, c'est la vie~!
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replied March 17th, 2009
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DamianaRaven wrote:
*giving DarkMoon a sharp rap on the knuckles* I said cut it out! LOL

On a more serious note, don't keep rising to the bait. NUN has a tendency to be confrontational with everyone who isn't pro-life, and you're just feeding his/her need for conflict. Let it go. That's far more of a stinging retort that to keep up the interplay.


Some pro-choicers tend to do the same with me. I already have one on ignore. It's pretty sad that you assume that I don't get along with people who aren't pro-life. There are plenty of pro-choicers I do get along with, but they are not all in this forum. There is no proof of what you said and I know you only said this because you don't like the fact that I am speaking my mind. Too bad.
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replied March 17th, 2009
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Darkmoon wrote:
You might want to dumb it down a bit. The brilliance of your post will be lost on the more simple population of pro-fetal-lifers".
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