Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Silverdale, WA United States
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I just don''t understand... Posted: 08-11-08 19:00pm
Why do pro lifers think that all pro
choicers are out to do is abort babies?
Why can't they understand that most of us
do not have abortions, that we carry our
children, and those of us that do abort
have valid reasons for it, be
psychological, financial, moral,
healthwise, etc? We answer their
questions, why is it so hard for
pro-lifers to answer ours? I know that I
am personally not out on a mission to go
abort every z/e/f in the world, I just
believe it should be an option. And to
those who think that abortions are
performed because a woman is
reckless...ouch. I personally was on birth
control and got pregnant with my son. Used
condoms and bc when I got pregnant with my
daughter, have had a micropremie (all of
my children born alive were premature but
my last, Ryan, succumbed to
bronchopulmonary dysplasia, a common
effect of prematurity 4 months after his
birth at 24 weeks gestation) have had two
miscarriages (NATURAL, FOLKS), and two
tubal pregnancies due to my tubes being
tied. Some women are just more fertile.
So, even if I used all precautions,
including tying my tubes, I could become
pregnant. With my past medical history of
tubal ligation, premature delivery and
very low blood pressure, if I were to get
pregnant at this time, I would believe it
best to abort, for my mental well being (I
have been through enough heartache) as
well as mine and the potential being's
well being....I do not believe that I have
any right, given my medical history of
earlier and earlier deliveries (34, 28,
and 24 weeks respectively), to put another
potential life through that kind of
environment. It would not be fair for me
to selfishly deliver a premature infant
that would probably not survive. I am glad
that choice is there for me. And I am glad
the choice is there for other people.
I guess that what I am getting at is, pro
choicers do not try to impose their
beliefs on anyone because their beliefs
involve a broad spectrum, whereas prolife
only involves the spectrum of the z/e/f
being so mercilessly torn to bits by us
"uncaring, evil, self-righteous" women. I
believe, correct me if I am wrong, that
pro-choice is simply that...we are giving
the woman the right to CHOOSE, between
adoption, abortion, and keeping the baby.
We are not saying she HAS to do anything.
We are giving her a choice to do what she
feels is best. Prolifers are saying we
HAVE to keep the baby, that we HAVE no
choice, that if we do not keep the baby,
we are sinners. But whatever, I guess I am
just venting...I just wish we, as
pro-choicers weren't made out to be so
evil...we aren't. And like I said before,
most pro-choicers have not had abortions,
and if they did, they are glad the choice
was there. And I do recall, we use
abortion as a last option, we even give
accurate advice as to what will be
done...prolifers do not believe us...we do
tell the woman what an abortion does to
the unborn.
Here is a link to a typical a pro-choice
website:
[url removed]
and a link to a typical prolife website:
[url removed]
Notice that there are three options as
well as education on all of them on the
pro-choice website, but on the prolife
website, there really is no option, just a
bunch of stuff on how bad we are for
murdering the unborn.
|
motherofhighspiritedones
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Posted: 08-11-08 19:17pm
However one thing that I do notice on that
prochoice website is that it states that
many doctors and abortionists are just
after money....not true...is it? I
personally prefer
http://www.naral.org/ because it
offers a very broad spectrum of advice,
including side effects of abortion,
contraceptives, adoption, and is
non-biased. I love the Women's Stories
section as well.
|
motherofhighspiritedones
Supporter
Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Silverdale, WA United States
I used to hold anti-abortion beliefs.
While I still could never choose abortion
for myself, I believe it is arrogant of us
to assume that we can know the
circumstances that cause women to choose
abortion. Rather than working to deny the
option of safe abortion to women, let us
work toward creating a society in which
abortion will be unnecessary.
|
Few
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Re: Another note... Posted: 08-11-08 20:14pm
motherofhighspiritedones
wrote:
http://www.prochoiceamerica.
org/choice-action-center/womens-stories/do
nna-55.html
A true example of the typical
pro-choicer:
Donna, 55
I used to hold anti-abortion beliefs.
While I still could never choose abortion
for myself, I believe it is arrogant of us
to assume that we can know the
circumstances that cause women to choose
abortion. Rather than working to deny the
option of safe abortion to women, let us
work toward creating a society in which
abortion will be
unnecessary.
abortion is unnecessary
except on rare occasions and those have
always been legal. legalized abortion
merely made abortion legal for the purpose
of convienence not necessity.
|
Mabel
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Re: Another note... Posted: 08-11-08 21:19pm
Few
wrote:
motherofhighspiritedones
wrote:
http://www.prochoiceamerica.
org/choice-action-center/womens-stories/do
nna-55.html
A true example of the typical
pro-choicer:
Donna, 55
I used to hold anti-abortion beliefs.
While I still could never choose abortion
for myself, I believe it is arrogant of us
to assume that we can know the
circumstances that cause women to choose
abortion. Rather than working to deny the
option of safe abortion to women, let us
work toward creating a society in which
abortion will be
unnecessary.
abortion is unnecessary
except on rare occasions and those have
always been legal. legalized abortion
merely made abortion legal for the purpose
of convienence not
necessity.
Please tell us the 'rare' instances where
this has 'always' been legal. With perhaps
some links to pertinent information.
Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Silverdale, WA United States
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Posted: 08-12-08 01:47am
Exactly why I have blocked Few.
|
Users who thank motherofhighspiritedones for this post:
homerx
motherofhighspiritedones
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Posted: 08-12-08 04:24am
Why can't both sides just agree that
abortion isn't really the problem? That
the lack of education is? After all if we
were educated better at an earlier age
wouldn't that prevent some of the
"convenient" abortions...not all but some.
And I state this because of the fact that
birth control can fail, so there is always
a tiny bit of risk. But then again, it
goes back to pro-choice. Because most of
us do feel the need to better educate. We
are not murderers. We are trying to rid
the world of the need of abortions by
education but all we are marked as are
baby killers. That is not fair.
|
AyaMiyaki
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Posted: 08-12-08 08:02am
Few
wrote:
a fetus is merely a level of
a persons development. an abortion robs a
person of all further levels of
development adult adolescent
etc.
You don't care about the "person" once
they're born, though. So obviously you're
only obsessed with zygotes, embryos, and
fetuses. Remember when you said that
starving children were irrelevant?
It's all about the unborn to you. You
don't give a flip about them once they've
left the uterus. You're off to save the
next "person" - while ignoring the
billions of ACTUAL people on this planet
and their struggles.
Re: I just don't understand... Posted: 08-12-08 10:52am
motherofhighspiritedones
wrote:
Why do pro lifers think that
all pro choicers are out to do is abort
babies? Why can't they understand that
most of us do not have abortions, that we
carry our children, and those of us that
do abort have valid reasons for it, be
psychological, financial, moral,
healthwise, etc? We answer their
questions, why is it so hard for
pro-lifers to answer ours? I know that I
am personally not out on a mission to go
abort every z/e/f in the world, I just
believe it should be an option. And to
those who think that abortions are
performed because a woman is
reckless...ouch. I personally was on birth
control and got pregnant with my son. Used
condoms and bc when I got pregnant with my
daughter, have had a micropremie (all of
my children born alive were premature but
my last, Ryan, succumbed to
bronchopulmonary dysplasia, a common
effect of prematurity 4 months after his
birth at 24 weeks gestation) have had two
miscarriages (NATURAL, FOLKS), and two
tubal pregnancies due to my tubes being
tied. Some women are just more fertile.
So, even if I used all precautions,
including tying my tubes, I could become
pregnant. With my past medical history of
tubal ligation, premature delivery and
very low blood pressure, if I were to get
pregnant at this time, I would believe it
best to abort, for my mental well being (I
have been through enough heartache) as
well as mine and the potential being's
well being....I do not believe that I have
any right, given my medical history of
earlier and earlier deliveries (34, 28,
and 24 weeks respectively), to put another
potential life through that kind of
environment. It would not be fair for me
to selfishly deliver a premature infant
that would probably not survive. I am glad
that choice is there for me. And I am glad
the choice is there for other people.
I guess that what I am getting at is, pro
choicers do not try to impose their
beliefs on anyone because their beliefs
involve a broad spectrum, whereas prolife
only involves the spectrum of the z/e/f
being so mercilessly torn to bits by us
"uncaring, evil, self-righteous" women. I
believe, correct me if I am wrong, that
pro-choice is simply that...we are giving
the woman the right to CHOOSE, between
adoption, abortion, and keeping the baby.
We are not saying she HAS to do anything.
We are giving her a choice to do what she
feels is best. Prolifers are saying we
HAVE to keep the baby, that we HAVE no
choice, that if we do not keep the baby,
we are sinners. But whatever, I guess I am
just venting...I just wish we, as
pro-choicers weren't made out to be so
evil...we aren't. And like I said before,
most pro-choicers have not had abortions,
and if they did, they are glad the choice
was there. And I do recall, we use
abortion as a last option, we even give
accurate advice as to what will be
done...prolifers do not believe us...we do
tell the woman what an abortion does to
the unborn.
Here is a link to a typical a pro-choice
website:
http://prochoice.com/
and a link to a typical prolife website:
http://www.prolife.com/
Notice that there are three options as
well as education on all of them on the
pro-choice website, but on the prolife
website, there really is no option, just a
bunch of stuff on how bad we are for
murdering the
unborn.
I also find it hard to understand why
prolife advocates care about my
reproductive decisions; they don't know
me, and I am the one that has to live with
my decisions, not them.
Extremists like Few have a crusade going
and I always wonder about their
motivations. If they denigrate women and
advocate prolife they are distracting
themselves or trying to make up for a past
indiscretion. Perhaps they had an issue
with control -they were controlled so
controlling others is a coping mechanism,
or they feel they have no control and this
makes up for that.
|
oopoopoop
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Posted: 08-12-08 12:29pm
You know what my suspicion is? You know
how they always say (and usually think
it's such a jolly clever and original
idea! ha ha!):
"What if YOUR mother had aborted YOU?!"
I often think there is some kind of
underlying insecurity that, having had the
opportunity, or known then what they know
now, THEIR mother would have aborted THEM.
|
Few
Experienced User , Rather EHEALTHy
Joined: 06 Aug 2008 Posts: 143
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Posted: 08-12-08 15:52pm
motherofhighspiritedones
wrote:
Why can't both sides just
agree that abortion isn't really the
problem? That the lack of education is?
After all if we were educated better at an
earlier age wouldn't that prevent some of
the "convenient" abortions...not all but
some. And I state this because of the fact
that birth control can fail, so there is
always a tiny bit of risk. But then again,
it goes back to pro-choice. Because most
of us do feel the need to better educate.
We are not murderers. We are trying to rid
the world of the need of abortions by
education but all we are marked as are
baby killers. That is not
fair.
i prefer
driving a sports car and hanging out in
nightclubs to driving a sedan and staying
at home so i kill my children with
abortions.
|
motherofhighspiritedones
Supporter
Joined: 16 May 2008 Posts: 725 Location: Silverdale, WA United States
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Posted: 08-12-08 16:31pm
But that's the thing...If my mother had
aborted me, I would have never known the
life I know today. You cannot miss what
you don't know. You cannot miss what you
don't experience. And simply put, z/e/f do
not know and do not experience. Okay maybe
they do, we don't know that, but we do
know that surely they cannot know and
experience the same way an adult human
can. How many people remember their birth?
Sure, there are a few of us (myself
included) that can remember tidbits of our
early childhood ( I can remember one
incident that involved a baby bottle,
grape juice and a bathtub, but that is for
a different thread)but we cannot remember
our birth. So asking a question like "What
if YOUR mother aborted YOU" would not
really matter. Sure, I would never have
the beautiful children I do now, the
wonderful husband, the great life. But you
know what? It simply would not matter.
Because I would never had been born to
experience this. The only answer to that
question is a simple one: I would not
exist and my children would not exist. And
I would not be aware...because "I" would
be irrelavent. I hope that makes sense.
|
Few
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Posted: 08-12-08 18:55pm
motherofhighspiritedones
wrote:
But that's the thing...If my
mother had aborted me, I would have never
known the life I know today. You cannot
miss what you don't know. You cannot miss
what you don't experience. And simply put,
z/e/f do not know and do not experience.
Okay maybe they do, we don't know that,
but we do know that surely they cannot
know and experience the same way an adult
human can. How many people remember their
birth? Sure, there are a few of us (myself
included) that can remember tidbits of our
early childhood ( I can remember one
incident that involved a baby bottle,
grape juice and a bathtub, but that is for
a different thread)but we cannot remember
our birth. So asking a question like "What
if YOUR mother aborted YOU" would not
really matter. Sure, I would never have
the beautiful children I do now, the
wonderful husband, the great life. But you
know what? It simply would not matter.
Because I would never had been born to
experience this. The only answer to that
question is a simple one: I would not
exist and my children would not exist. And
I would not be aware...because "I" would
be irrelavent. I hope that makes
sense.
that
is complete nonsense. dead people don't
miss anything no matter who they are or
when you kill them. because they are dead.
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Birch
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Posted: 08-12-08 19:19pm
Exactly. Fetuses have no idea of
existence, autonomy, or intelligence.
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nightangel73
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Posted: 08-12-08 19:41pm
mother I am an example of a non extremist
prolifer. I believe abortion based on
social reasons is wrong but I support
abortion to be legal. I just promote the
choice for life. I wouldn't say you, you
HAVE to keep the baby, I would say you
SHOULD keep the baby always giving you the
choice. I totally agree with you in the
education part. And I believe
contraceptive pills should be free in
america. Those will certainly help to
lower down the number of unnecessary
abortions which is the goal.
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nightangel73
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Posted: 08-12-08 19:44pm
Birch
wrote:
Exactly. Fetuses have no
idea of existence, autonomy, or
intelligence.
but they are humans beings..just
developing..
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Few
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Posted: 08-12-08 22:40pm
Birch
wrote:
Exactly. Fetuses have no
idea of existence, autonomy, or
intelligence.
