It isn't that we can't trust what we say, it is just that our perceptions of things are different. I don't think abortion is homicide. I think that is a totally ludicrous concept. But some people do view it that way and I can't tell them their perception is wrong. I can say that no law should be based on it, however.

yes, but our perceptions may be wrong. Then what? THEN is it ok to use the dictionary???

How is abortion NOT homicide? It kills a human being, a homo sapiens, of the same species as you and me, just before it has fully developed to be able to live by itself. What is the difference???

People have different perceptions of killing LIVE people. I am sure that killers do not view it as wrong!!!! Yet we have a law AGAINST killing because of simple morals; if you have the right to live, so do I. Why don't the unborn apply?!?!?

You said it perfectly Jules! Thanks!

Oh and just because I have a child as my avatar. doesn't mean I can't be pro-choice. It's my right as a woman!

What I'm saying is that someone's perception of whether or not a fetus is a child can't be right or wrong. It is their perception and opinion. The dictionary has definitions that support the notion that a fetus is a child and definitions that do not support that notion.

I didn't type homicide, I typed the big scary M word and they put in "homicide".

The unborn are not protected under law unless the mother takes actions. This is because it is a being that is dependent physically on another human being, which means that giving it full rights isn't possible without infringing on the mother's rights. That's why there aren't laws against pregnant women smoking or drinking (not that I advocate that). We can tell women that it is bad to do those things, but we can't legally keep them from doing it.

LOL every time I try to type the 'M' word it tells me I will be reported. Don't worry, I get your meaning! When I typed in killing live people up above there, it was because they wouldn't allow me to put...well you know!
Yes, perceptions can be wrong. Can you provide some definitions that support a fetus is not a child?
My point is perceptions are some one's opinion, but opinions can be wrong. Like killing; like I said, I am sure killers do not view killing as bad, but it is widely accepted that because it takes the life of a person unwillingly, it is a violation and no matter what your perception is, it is wrong and you will be punished for it.

Another point is that a fetus is dependant on the mother; it wasn't its fault in the beginning though. the fetus in no way asked to be conceived. It isn't its fault, and it shouldn't have to be killed because the mother simply doesn't feel ready to have a child!

Riddle me this, then: do you know anyone who can live dependantly on their own with no one else?
I was wondering about this too: what if the woman has the baby, and decides that she doesn't want to feed it and leaves it to die? Is that wrong? Doesn't the mother have the right to her body and so shouldn't she be able to kill her child?

Life is not fair. Death is not fair.

Your trite summation of "mother simply doesn't feel ready to have a child" shows a lack of empathy and comprehension on this subject. I hope you continue to learn and will perhaps change your mind to incorporate a broader understanding of why women obtain abortions, even if you still retain your political prolife view.



I am not in a womb. Are you?



Tossing aside the obvious retort of location, location, location, this is a good question. Maybe she should be able to without fear of penalty.

Yes. If you stay consistant, you have to admit that the mother could kill her child even it it's born. And it's interesting, because then wouldn't the mother be sent to jail?

Even though you did not address my comment about the lack of insight regarding this issue I do hope you understand what I was saying.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fet us

"fe·tus Audio Help /ˈfitəs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fee-tuhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -tus·es. Embryology. (used chiefly of viviparous mammals) the young of an animal in the womb or egg, esp. in the later stages of development when the body structures are in the recognizable form of its kind, in humans after the end of the second month of gestation."

And see where this one supports both notions?:

"child Audio Help /tʃaɪld/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[chahyld] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural chil·dren. 1. a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.
2. a son or daughter: All my children are married.
3. a baby or infant.
4. a human fetus."

So, neither person is wrong.



Perceptions can be wrong, but that isn't the case here. There are some things that are universally wrong and there is no question about it. You view abortion wrong because of how you view the fetus. But not every one views a fetus the way they do and that doesn't mean their opinion is wrong. Obviously, your perception isn't wrong, just different. That is why it isn't a good idea to base a law on what only a portion of our people think.



Abortion isn't a way of placing blame on the fetus. It is a way of dealing with the unwanted pregnancy and impending parenthood. Not being ready to take care of a child for the next 18 years is not "simple" in the least.



That is wrong because she chose to bring the child into this world. Once you decide to do that, it is your full responsibility. She has the right to her body while the fetus is depending on her nutrients, blood, uterus, etc. But if she had a child and didn't want it, she could easily have left it at a hospital or given it up for adoption. Plus, a born citizen automatically is protected by the Constitution. A fetus is not.

Very well said.

Why can't some people comprehend that abortion rights have nothing to do with the status of the fetus and everything to do with the rights of the person of whose body it is a part? In other words, it would not matter if, instead of a fetus inside a woman's uterus, it was a full grown adult. That adult has no more right to be in that uterus against the woman's will than the fetus.

Every person owns their own body. It is as simple as that.

[b]Well, to me it is the same thing because SHE chose to have intercourse and risk getting pregnant in the first place. It is the same thing; she chose to risk it, and so she should accept the consequences. Hasn't anyone heard of abstinence?[b]

p.s. I still can't figure out quoting so I put [b] around my responses.

Easy enough for a 15 year old to say, but try telling that to a married women of 30 who simply doesn't want kids. Please don't make such ridiculous statements.

You might not agree with her method, but that doesn't mean she isn't accepting what happened to her. To take responsibility for something is to assess the situation and then take the action you think is best. Whether a woman aborts, has her baby, or gives it up for adoption she is taking responsibility. The fact that you think her choice was wrong doesn't negate that she still took responsibility.

As for abstinence, dream on! Do you practice abstinence? I don't and I won't.

Why the obsession with telling people what to do with their reproductive organs? First you're in the doctor's office with them telling them what to do, then you're in the bedroom doing the same.

Maybe I think you need to get your tubes tied so you don't bring anymore children into the world.

I know, I know...how dare I tell you such a thing. I don't even know you, blah blah.

That's exactly how I feel.

Are you asking because you sincerely do not understand the difference?
Do you understand why abortion is legal?

No. I am asking because I want YOU to have to think about it. Abortion is legal because for some odd reason the law thinks it is not a person, no matter what science says. And because it every woman should have the right to do what is best for her body. don't mind the baby's body. our society is all about getting rid of the problem, and abortion does just that for short term.

You can tell me all you want. feel free. Like I said, I don't care what people do with their bodies, as long as they don't kill a child. As long as a life is not ended. Babies are killed in abortion. Can't you see that?

Just like we don't care what you think about what we chose to do with our bodies. You can choose not to have an abortion, and we can choose to have one.

Abortion does not get rid of the problem "short-term", last time I checked the women no longer had to give birth to a baby. And so I'm guessing you think that regardless of whether a women is going to die giving birth, she should carry on with a pregnancy. I guess you're like the others who don't give two shakes about anyone who's actually living, just as long as the precious fetus is saved.

Do you actually picture a baby in your mind when you think of abortion?

But you see, not everyone LIKES babies. The point is to get rid of it before it IS a baby, because you don't want one of those.