Let's here your answer.

child is a name or stage it has reached, although you may call it james legally james doesnt become his name until you fill out the paperwork for him/her.

Scientifically it is called it a fetus, you may call it as you choose but scietifically a fetus become a infant when it is born.

an embryo is unable to feel, it cannot think much less survive on its own but it is full of living cells

A baby/infant is capable of thinking, surviving, breathing and it is full of living cells

There is a big difference between the two so why should they considered the same within thats stage of development, a sperm has the potential of making a possible pregnancy but men still jack off.

I don't care for semantics. We can say child, an extreme pro-choicer can say parasite... all of these words are accurate. We have the freedom to CHOOSE which terms we want to use. I don't care if you don't like it. Either suck it up, continue the debate, or get stuck in the mud.

90% of abortions occur between the weeks of 6 and 12. At week 10 the unborn is considered a fetus. So the most common abortions happen to embryos and fetuses.

You're right, an infant and a fetus are two different stages. But a baby is nothing like an adult. An adolescent is very different than an old person. All stages are different from each other. Sperm has nothing to do with this, by the way. No one was a sperm. But, everyone came from the union of a sperm and an egg.

People don't always use the same type of stage, depending on your culture or where you live (laws, for example). Some people consider a baby to be from birth to 1 year old. Others may believe that the baby stage is from birth to 3 years old. Some people consider teenagers children, while others don't see it that way. I don't know what the big deal is in calling a fetus a baby. It IS a young human.

You can say an abortion kills a child, and in your understanding you are right. I can say it kills a parasite, and in my understanding I am right. Dictionaries are wonderful things.

Yes, that's very true. I'll never debate THAT issue. I will however debate that we should be using these wrong terms at all.

Instead, I am mostly horrified by the inhumanity I see pro-choicers express towards the fetus. I've been there myself, done that, called it a parasite, a cancer, called "it" all kinds of things. I'm done with the cliches, I'm done with the things that have been said over and over. They ring hollow to me. They don't "work" anymore for me.

Even moreso, I can sit here and say abortion kills an unborn child... and I don't feel my stance is being compromised. I don't have to dehumanize the fetus. In fact, I feel humanizing it is important. It MATTERS.

Why are you aborting? Is it just because you don't want to be pregnant? Are you really that shallow? Stretch marks got ya down? I know better. I know you think about that child and I know it matters to you. If I ever aborted it would be for myself AND the unborn child inside of me.

As much as I believe you nitpick many posts, this one rings so true to me. I've been meaning to ask you why you're pro-choice because you often seemingly play the devils advocate in this place, but you've summed up your beliefs quite eloquently.

Thank you Devil's advocate is important, I think. It may seem annoying, but it does make people think, or so I hope!

Hmm.

How do you identify yourself on the abortion issue?

Pro-choice, for the most part.

Newer data shows vast majority of abortion involve embryos.

For a long time, nearly 90% of abortions in the U.S. have taken place in the first trimester, but in recent years, women having an abortion have been able to do so earlier and earlier in the first trimester. Currently, more than six in 10 abortions occur within the first eight weeks of pregnancy, and almost three in 10 take place at six weeks or earlier,” says Rachel Jones, lead researcher on the new survey. “Medication abortion, which provides women with an additional option early in pregnancy, clearly reinforces this very positive trend.”
http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2008/01 /17/index.html

I am happy to agree that abortion kills (by removing from its host) an unborn child. But I wouldn't care -- I would have not emotional attachment, and would still consider it an invasive parasite, because I simply do not want it inside me. I would not want an unborn child inside me, any more than I would want a tapeworm or a cancerous tumour inside me.

Do you really see that not wanting to be pregnant as being "shallow"? The idea is so totally revolting to me, that I would seriously risk doing damage to myself to get it out. There are a lot of reasons to not want to be pregnant, and worrying about stretchmarks doesn't really rank up there.

Eiri?


IT MATTERS to YOU, not to everyone else. Maybe some people, but not everyone.


This is a very ignorant statement. Pregnancy is not easy to endure, even when it is much wanted. Childbirth is agony even when done by a person's own free will. It's difficult to imagine how much emotional and physical torment would be involved to have to go through those things by force.


How can you possibly know what goes on in other people's minds? How can you think people would think of "that child" when it's a fertilized egg or an embryo? For some people who do not desire pregnancy, the difference between an egg and a fertilized egg is zero.

Ok? It doesn't seem like you want that to be a legal choice. Maybe you just don't want it to be a legal choice for those sluts who don't want stretch marks, but you do want the choice for people like you who would only choose abortion for moral, upstanding reasons.

Sounds like you need to read this:
"The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion"
When the Anti-Choice Choose
http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tale s.html

Okay, but do you actually consider that unborn child to be as revolting as cancer? I guess I just can't understand reviling something like that wen I know it's a baby. A small one? Yes. Does it look like an alien or some snot? Yes, amusingly so. It even has a tail, and gills. But it is still a baby to me no matter what it looks like. I've had pregnancy scares, I'm sure many of us have. I knew abortion was the right answer (thank God I never had to go through it), but that's because I considered the potential child as well as myself.

I just find it hard to believe some pro-choicers who rant about the parasitic evil embryo. As a pro-lifer would say, it really seems as if they are trying to prove to THEMSELVES that they don't care about it, when maybe they actually do.


I see "just" not wanting to be pregnant as shallow, because I believe the unborn matters and is part of the abortion equation. I KNOW women actually think about the unborn inside of them.

And to be 100% honest... be offended if you wish... but I'd really consider therapy if I considered pregnancy that revolting. Would I have hurt myself to end a pregnancy a year or two ago? YES. But NOT because I found the pregnancy itself disgusting. I find pregnancy to be beautiful. I would have been horrified of the situation... It's hard to explain. I'd be horrified *I* was pregnant and in the state of being pregnant, but not actually horrified about "pregnancy".

Also, I'm not going to read propoganda from either side of this debate. I've been in it enough years to know how I feel about the issue. I've flip flopped and dealt with my own ethics enough to be solid in my stance and to finally not feel FAKE about it.

I found pregnancy pretty revolting. So revolting, in fact, that I had to run to the bathroom every ten minutes. No exaggeration. Not so beautiful.

Anyone seen the movie 'Alien'?

Yes, I would hate the idea of pregnancy as much as cancer. I do not want anything growing inside me and leeching off my body. Therapy would be a good idea if, feeling like that about pregnancy, I actually WANTED a child. Obviously, there would be a conflict there. I could see if someone loved children, and was revolted by pregnancy, there might be a point -- but it's like having a fear of flying, but not wanting to go anywhere. But since I don't want a child (and in fact, actively DO NOT want, and have never wanted one), what would be the point?

And just because *I* don't want to be pregnant, doesn't mean that I don't think anyone else should be. I don't want to look at their pregnant bellies, but if they don't mind being that way, it's no problem for me.

Being obsessive over other people's wants and fears is a sign that you need therapy.

I can't imagine for many people it's as simple as just not wanting to be pregnant - there are reasons behind why women don't wish to be pregnant (for example when I aborted I didn't want to be pregnant because I was at uni/too young etc... a whole host of reasons as opposed to just not wanting to be pregnant for the hell of it). And yes, I thought about the potential child before I made my decision but I don't think that means every woman does - we're all different and all think about things in different ways so I honestly can't say that all women think about the z/e/f/potential baby before aborting.